cartel 6542 movement... short question

[dow]

The puretime gmt master vintage 6542 comes with a "Swiss ETA-2846". Will there be a functioning GMT hand on this watch?

[JoeyB]

Yes. It works the same as the ETA/Asian 2836-2 , just slow beat. I do not believe they are 'Swiss", but really 'Asian', and be aware that it will likely need service regardless.

The lug holes are too high, the case is too 'wokky', the GMT hand is garbage, so is the crystal. The insert is good, but doesn't lume.

[dow]

Thanks for the reply! I just got one in. Gmt hand can be moved in date setting mode, screwing crown backwards. However it does not move with normal movement running... Doa so to speak

Yes there is anwooky rehaute. I will take it apart later and see if it is possible to shave some off, still making a good rest for the dial. Still very nice case profile! Low and slim.

I have clarks plexi in my drawers. Will def do a swap.

A better gmt hand, any source for that?

[JoeyB]

The GMT hand should track with the hour hand, so yep it has an issue. There is a small 3 gear stack driven by the pinion to the date advance mechanism. It might be slipping there.

A better GMT hand can be anywhere from $25 to off the charts. My opinion is to get one from Rafflestime. I use 1500 sandpaper and mod it slightly. Measure your GMT pinion, tell him the movement and pinion size you need. And Mention RWG, it does help.

[dow]

Thanks a lot Joey!!! Now I know how to proceed. But first I will have a little chat with puretime.

[panerai153]

My experience in the past including a 2846 GMT in my 6542, as well as several 2846 movements in various vintage Rolex reps has been this, the 2846 is and old movement, if it is a Swiss movement. They haven't been produced in over 20 years. i'm sure some of the movements being used today are coming from old donor watches that are torn open and the movement scooped out. If it runs, it goes in a new rep, maybe if it doesn't run it still goes in a rep!!. At any rate even if you get a movement from a NOS watch, and there are still quite a few found on Ebay, it's a 20 year old movement that hasn't run or been serviced since new.So the first thing I would factor in would be a service. I mean a complete teardown ultrasonic cleaning and then reassembling with the proper oils and grease. Do not assume that because they added the extra gear train to produce a GMT, that they serviced the movement, because they didn't.

Good luck with the puretime. To make a really good 6542 rep, they are not the way to go. joeyB is the 6542 master, and he can tell you a lot about a 6542 build. I sent him my puretime 6542, to use as a parts donor watch, and the only thing he ended up using was the movement. Everything else was just too "wonky' or just didn't fit. What's so sad about the whole things, they cartel has some no crown guard cases that would be a whole lot more correct for a 6542, but they decided to build it using this case with the rehault that looks like a Wok, instead. Mine didn't even have the "roulette" date wheel which would have been a really big help.

[dow]

Thank you panerai153 for your info.

This is my first time with puretime. I usually only buy parts and bits, and in a different arena of watches and movements. All said it's disturbing that someone sells a watch with a faulty movement. I can accept problems after a while, but the song really needs to start off in the right key. This fault was simply obvious when they made the watch...

I think the case is not that bad. I do agree about the wooky rehaut, I'm hoping to be able to take it in a bit. But there might be to small tolerances... And I guess I should be lucky to have the roulette wheel installed. Jeee

[JoeyB]

freddy333 is the 6542 Master, I learned from him. In fact I came here looking for knowledge about vintage Rolex GMT while a member elsewhere. RolexAddict got my attention in Vintage GMTs on that other site, and I came here and found freddy333's 'Phase 1' in progress. First look and I was hooked, and built my first shortly after, even buying his first acrylic insert from him. . He was the point, the 'pathfinder'. I was fortunate to have his work and knowledge to build on.

People like freddy333 are what make RWG the "great knowledge base for rollies". We all benefit from his, and all those who share their knowledge, example.

[panerai153]

Thank you panerai153 for your info.

This is my first time with puretime. I usually only buy parts and bits, and in a different arena of watches and movements. All said it's disturbing that someone sells a watch with a faulty movement. I can accept problems after a while, but the song really needs to start off in the right key. This fault was simply obvious when they made the watch...

The rep manufacturers are producing thousands of reps, primarily for the street sellers who are selling "Throw away " watches to tourists, etc. We are fortunate that there are some who have set up production for really nice quality reps like we enjoy here. however at the price point that they sell watches, It probably doesn't seem feasible to them to fully service movements before they case them and send them on down the road. The second problem would be training and retaining skilled people who have the desire, brains and technical skills to become watch movement repair people.

there is such a disconnect between the manufacturers and the sellers and ultimately you and I the buyers, that they probably don't really care if we are happy with the watch we received. I'm sure some of the sellers are concerned, but they have no control over what the manufacturers do. I'm sure if a dealer complains too much, the manufacturer will just cut him off and sell to someone else.

Our problem, is we look at reps with the same eye and mindset that we do genuine watches. We expect the watch to be deliverd in a timely fashion, and that since it is new, we should be able to set the time and date, strap it on and everything works perfectly. If it doesn't we have several avenues to address the problem. The seller, AD, the company representative, and finally the company itself. Because they are all concerned with PR, they will generally do their best to see that your problems are resolved. On the other hand reps are bought from a "Dealer" probably in mainland China, Thailand, or some other similar far away place. In order to get a problem fixed, first we have to convince the dealer that we have a problem, then if he agrees, we have to ship it back, hoping that when it arrives, he will remember what the problem is, who it belongs to and has another watch like it in stock to exchange. Lots of places for failure, two trips in and out of customs, mail service that may lose your package, employee of the seller who receives your broken watch, doesn't have a clue as to why it's there, and shoves it into a corner in a storeroom.

I'm sure I'm painting a pretty glum picture, but that's the rep business. My personal feelings are when I get the watch, it's mine, warts and all. If it's broken, I figure the easiest thing to do is box it up, send it to one of the watch folks who frequent our forum, and pay for the repairs myself. Get it fixed, get it serviced, and hopefully have a reliable watch for a few years.I feel for you, but the 2846 in my 6542 was filthy dirty, as well as mechanical problems,hopefully after a service it will be OK, but when I got it, it was losing 2-3 minutes every 12 hours!! hows that for accuracy.

[dow]

Panerai153, that is a very informative post you made which is valid and a good basic read for anyone looking into this scene.

I must confess I have limited experience in buying ready made reps, and autos/chronos as well. I still cling to my position that a song should start in the right key. That said, if I buy a vintage movement, ETA, Molnija, Cortebert or Angelus or the likes, I never believe that the movement will work flawlessly without some TLC. However if the seller claims it functions correctly, I assume that it does so. Time keeping issues is though to be expected. But it will need to function reasonably correct. I have not posted that the movement we speak of also lost ten minutes first four hours running... Perhaps the underlying problem is I only have picked apart and serviced larger manuals, and that autos and chronos scare the sh!t out of me. So here is a good opportunity to break into servicing autos as well.

Finally I can say I got a fast reply from Puretime, with a very fair approach to me and to the issue. I also talked with a pro watchmaker friend, that will look at the movement. So I feel confident that I will fall on my feet this time.

[automatico]

Q..."The puretime gmt master vintage 6542 comes with a "Swiss ETA-2846". Will there be a functioning GMT hand on this watch.

A..."Yes. It works the same as the ETA/Asian 2836-2 , just slow beat. I do not believe they are 'Swiss", but really 'Asian', and be aware that it will likely need service regardless."

"Gmt hand can be moved in date setting mode, screwing crown backwards. However it does not move with normal movement running... Doa so to speak."

There used to be a lot of the earlier asian conversion 24 hour swiss 2836 etc around in GMT and Ex II, maybe you can get one from another member. This is the older design with the 24 hour hand geared to the 12 hour hand that can not be adjusted...the hand stack is always 24H, H, M, S. I have found this type of 24 hour conversion to be the most trouble free of the lot. After you get a proper GMT 2836 movement (most common), you can simply change the 24 hour works over to a 2846 if you want the slower beat movement. If the hands are too close to the dial and/or too close together you may need a longer CP and hour wheel plus a longer sweep second pinion.

They mostly used eta 2836 on these non adj GMT conversions, not many 2846.

"Perhaps the underlying problem is I only have picked apart and serviced larger manuals, and that autos and chronos scare the sh!t out of me. So here is a good opportunity to break into servicing autos as well."

Calendars are worse than auto wind assemblies imho. A/w assemblies are usually not bad at all.

Chronographs make my jaws ache.

On low buck projects it seems DG GMT movements are Ok but out of the 25 or so that I had (no lie, but a long story), maybe 6 or 7 were good runners...the rest need to be serviced and they all were in 'new' watches.

As for service...I would rather c/o 3 swiss etas in the dark, outside, during a thunder storm than one DG. They may be tough and reliable (usually) but they are so cheaply made they are disgusting. The screws are made out of clay and lining everything up under one plate is a hassle. Not to mention the litttle U shaped flying springs.

[JoeyB]

Not to mention the litttle U shaped flying springs.

That's the way I learned it. I swear I heard a tiny sonic boom on my first encounter! I use Scotch tape to hold the spring and position it after the plate is installed. You can see what you're doing through the tape.

I don't know what the difference is between the DG2813 GMT and the DG3804B GMT. I've a only a few DG movements that came in the watches I've bought, and they were OK. But the DG3804B that I've gotten NEW from suppliers have been truly impressive. The best to me is the service. In 3-5 years when it needs to be serviced, you simply de-case the movement, place it on the workbench, and using a 24oz or larger hammer smash the snot out of it and buy a new one for $25. And they actually look more like the old Rolex movements than the ETAs do.

[dow]

I should hang out more with you guys. I'm learning something by every post in this thread, including how you really service asian autos. LoL!

[woof*]

If you decide to stay with the low beat 2846, there's an eBay seller in Switzerland that sells nos 2846's for 99$ shipped. These are clean new movements.

Both sneed and myself have purchased several. Sneed has dropped one into his gmt and added the existing gmt module with no issues.

Send me a pm if you need more info.

[dow]

Thanks woof, that is good to know. I looked at the movement and I believe it is the gmt pack that slips. Should be fixable. And if the movement itself is worth a damn my watchmaking friend/mentor will give it new life. Otherwise I will probably shoot you a pm for that ebay source.

[dow]

A little update: The GMT module works, but not flawlessly, it stutters, especially after I have set the GMT hand. But it runs. I will together with a friend take a look at it. The movement itself runs well now. First it was unreliable but now it ticks strong. Maybe the movement needed some time to tune in. Still it will be serviced.

I thought I should make some overal comments over the design: I think this is a really nice watch. I don't know much about it's history, but I really dig the color palette. You have both red, blue and white in the inlay, orangey lume, goldish text print, red gmt hand, silver hands... It came with a riveted stretch bracelet. If you have hair on your wrist, it will be a PITA. I thought the bracelet was decent, but this watch, with all it's colors, screamed leather strap to me. The I found the crown surpringly small, but I'm used to big crown designs. I actually think it looks more balanced with a small crown, but I still feel for the big crown design. What also appeals to me about the 6542 is the case profile. It's really sleek and low, with pam 6154-ish pointed lugs:

My plans are this: a relume of the dial and hands plus some ageing, dull the case a bit, swap to Clark plexi (already bought one), change the GMT hand - it looks off to me, and a leather strap. I was planning to make new plexi inlay, but this I have put on hold. The time is just not on my side at the moment. The plexi inlay is itself a very cool design feature. The one I have looks really crisp and perfect. Maybe too perfect compared to the gens, that has distorsions, blotched numbers and a creamy discoloration. Some seems to be slightly curved/rounded, some looks flat, like this one.

I have dyed veg tan leather and made a strap just as vintage pam straps were constructed: double folded tail side and three folded buckle side. The buckle was taken from a NATO strap. A slightly meatier buckle would be preferable, but this is what I have in 20mm. I stitched the ends to make the strap more robust. It's a bit orangey now, but will darken with time, use and mink/neatfoots oil.

[woof*]

Nice!

Have you had a chance to look and see if the rehaut can be sanded to remove the wokkiness?

[dow]

Thanks for reminding me. I have not yet assembled the watch. Will do and post up my findings!

[dow]

Reviving this thread.

 

I have now taken the watch apart. First I can confirm it is a swiss movement in this watch, which is nice.

 

The dial is 27 mm and the rehaut edge is 26.5 mm. So there is not much that can be taken in to reduce wookiness. I will do some and see how much a can change the appearance.

 

I'm giving the dial and hands a relume. Changing to Clarks plexi.

Will post up when finished.

Edited December 3, 2012 by dow