Receive A Non-function Daytona Watch From A Forum Member

[dvn]

Make a purchase from a forum member for a daytona last week when the watch arrived it did not completely functioning. The watch stop working when the hour hand is in 5 or 6 or 7 hour position where it touched the second hand. I have notified the forum member of the issue and he replied to ask me to uncasing the watch and push down the second hand. When i told him that i don't have the skill and the tool to do that he did not reply to me anymore. I have sent him three more pm in 3 days without any reply.

I don't expect a brand new watch going into a deal but i do expect a working watch and i did not get it. What should i do? My thrid pm this morning i told him that if i don't hear from him with a resolution i am going to report to paypal and file a charge back and i'll do so tomorrow.

So i hope to hear from him and i want to return the watch to him for a refund and i don't want to do any business with him anymore.

Please help and give me some advice.

[t]

waiting with paypal report... this is not the way, if we report paypal at all dispute... we can´t forget paypal as payment method for replicas in future. Look how much problems the dealers have with paypal

i think he will replay you when he read this thread

if he not replay.... write his nickname here and we will help you.

[fitmic]

WAIT WITH THE PAYPAL REPORT!!!

I must say that I'm on nguyendd's side now.

I find it hard that the hands got f*cked in the transit from the seller to nguyendd. To me it seems that the watch was faulty when it was sent.

[dvn]

thank you fitmic for your support.

Here is his reply prior my reply that i don't have the tool to uncase the watch:

"Hi David

I just want to clear a few things up.

Im a reputable person here on the forum and wouldnt try to sell any damaged watch or broken watch to anyone - Its simply just dishonest.

I can guarantee that the watch was sent in complete working order as i tested it, something strange must have happened.

Anyway, its sounds as if the second hand is touching the hour hand whixh is such an easy fix if you know how. all is needed is too push the second hand down a little more, thats all

Id like to walk you through what to do as sending it back to me and me sending it back to you is a waste of time and money for both of us.

Do you think you could uncase the watch??"

[Richard Tracy]

Well, from reading his reply, it doesn't sound like he sent the watch damaged..

As a matter of fact, personally I don't consider it broken, but just needs an adjustment.

I would suggest David, to the watch enthusiast that you evidently are, to trust in yourself

enough to tackle simple fixes such as these, as it will go a long way in keeping you happy

in this game of replicas where such triffles are common.

If not, why not just sell it to someone else who will....?

I personally don't think it enough to burn a bridge or start a fight with an established

member.... do you ?

All imo.. of course....

[flavor flav]

i'd fix it for you free of charge if i had a rolex case opener set......should be an easy job to fix. i can see how the hand can come loose after being banged around in the mail. i think the seller may be perfectly honest and is willing to help.

[Guest avitt]

I'm not familiar with this transaction, but I'm wondering if this is a DW Daytona with the Mystery Movement. I'm asking becuase floppy hands are a chronic problem with this movement. There's really not much you can do about it, except perhaps to use a stonger spring washer under the dial.

[jonthebhoy]

Expecting the purchaser to attempt the fix drags the issue into a greyer area. What happens if during the uncasing something else is discovered as avitt has suggested above? Then it becomes a bitching session about “Well you must have done that yourself in attempting the repair”.

I would guess that most members on RWG are not confident about carrying out repairs that involve removing the movement. The repair should only be carried out by someone who knows exactly what to do and thus I would suggest that the buyer and seller agree how this should be done.

And yes I’m all for learning how to do repairs but I’d pick a sacrificial rep that I would be prepared to lose, should I screw up the exercise.

JTB

[rbj69]

i would probablay have to agree with the plaintiff in this one, he paid for a watch that was said to be working fine and when recieved it had problems, now i do agree with the guy that said that about DW watches, they r a pain in the [censored] if u know what i mean, u can breathe on that sucker wrong and something acts up, lol

just my two cents, i feel the seller should simply accept the watch back and send the cash back or take it back and fix it for him and send it back again, it seems to be the fair thing to do imho

joe

[warburg]

i would probablay have to agree with the plaintiff in this one, he paid for a watch that was said to be working fine and when recieved it had problems, now i do agree with the guy that said that about DW watches, they r a pain in the [censored] if u know what i mean, u can breathe on that sucker wrong and something acts up, lol

just my two cents, i feel the seller should simply accept the watch back and send the cash back or take it back and fix it for him and send it back again, it seems to be the fair thing to do imho

joe

I certainly agree with Joe on this. Many of us replica watch fans are "all thumbs" and don't have a clue about repairing watches. If a watch is sold as being in working condition, it should work, period!

[dvn]

thank you all for your opions on this. Just want to clear few things upfront

1. NO it is not a DW daytona. It is a regular Daytona with second at 6

2. The most i have done is to resize the bracelet if they are screwed-in bracelet because the only tool is have is a pair of precision screw driver. I don't have any other tool let alone tool to uncase the whole watch

3. like jonthebhoysaid what not everyone can do the repair themself i am not in the position to do that and maybe dragging myself into some bigger problem. i bough myself an functional watch like that is watch i expected.

4. RT said why don't i try to resell it. I paid $180 for it, if someone is willing to take the watch the way it is for $180 i am more than happy to ship it to him/her.

Having said all of that i am going to report the seller to paypal and file for a charge back sometime today.

The name of the seller is ajoesmith in case someone wants to know

[tonton2000]

Hi nguyemdd

I just need to pipe in here.

I am currently awaiting a watch from ajoesmith also, but when i sent him the paypal payment on monday, he informed me that he will not be able to ship it until friday, as he is away until then.

Just a heads up for you. Maybe he hasn't been able to reply to your PM's because he is away. Maybe wait until friday.

I hope all gets resolved.

[jonthebhoy]

Hi nguyemdd

Just a heads up for you. Maybe he hasn't been able to reply to your PM's because he is away. Maybe wait until friday.

I hope all gets resolved.

I'd echo that.

JTB

[dvn]

Hi nguyemdd

I just need to pipe in here.

I am currently awaiting a watch from ajoesmith also, but when i sent him the paypal payment on monday, he informed me that he will not be able to ship it until friday, as he is away until then.

Just a heads up for you. Maybe he hasn't been able to reply to your PM's because he is away. Maybe wait until friday.

I hope all gets resolved.

@tonton2000,

thank you for the heads up. I wished he told me that then i would have wait and not making any noise about that. i'll wait for him until Friday then. I replied to him on Sunday and he just drop off the radar screen without any satisfratory explaination.

[tonton2000]

@tonton2000,

thank you for the heads up. I wished he told me that then i would have wait and not making any noise about that. i'll wait for him until Friday then. I replied to him on Sunday and he just drop off the radar screen without any satisfratory explaination.

No problem mate.

[rek001]

Nguy, do you have a watch reapir guy where you live who works on reps?

If so, you could take it to him and have ajoe reimburse you for the repair, it shouldn't be very expensive.

[Richard Tracy]

I'm not familiar with this transaction, but I'm wondering if this is a DW Daytona with the Mystery Movement. I'm asking becuase floppy hands are a chronic problem with this movement. There's really not much you can do about it, except perhaps to use a stonger spring washer under the dial.

From the description of the problem, stopping on the same numbers each time, it does not

sound like a 'floppy arm' situation to me, however if it is, then yes, requires an expert fix,

thus a refund,,..

Otherwise it can be adjusted by anyone with two operating hands and at least one eye,

and imo, should not be the responsibility of a seller, who seems to me to be honest.

I would not even bother a dealer under such a circumstance, let alone a private seller.

I think we need to make allowances with our hobby, and each other, that go even beyond

genuine, which as we all know come with many of the same problems we experience with reps.

Not to do so is opening doors to many, many more complaints and fights between our

members which will deteriorate the atmosphere of our little community an ugly thread

at a time, while in this case alerting paypal to snoop into our windows...

From what was said about those who refuse to open their watches,.... to each their own..

however I find it an attitude that is self defeating to a small degree and limiting to a

large degree, especially for a replica enthusiast.

Lastly, I personally get frustrated with the notion of people who expect perfection, but fail to

see that the responsibility for their vision must be a personal goal that is gained by sweat, either

theirs of someone elses.

Because our watches come in, either as projects, or as imperfect dogs that we learn to love.

Which brings me to the comment by the watch repair/mod person,....

Need I say more...??

[dvn]

From the description of the problem, stopping on the same numbers each time, it does not

sound like a 'floppy arm' situation to me, however if it is, then yes, requires an expert fix,

thus a refund,,..

Otherwise it can be adjusted by anyone with two operating hands and at least one eye,

and imo, should not be the responsibility of a seller, who seems to me to be honest.

I would not even bother a dealer under such a circumstance, let alone a private seller.

I think we need to make allowances with our hobby, and each other, that go even beyond

genuine, which as we all know come with many of the same problems we experience with reps.

Not to do so is opening doors to many, many more complaints and fights between our

members which will deteriorate the atmosphere of our little community an ugly thread

at a time, while in this case alerting paypal to snoop into our windows...

From what was said about those who refuse to open their watches,.... to each their own..

however I find it an attitude that is self defeating to a small degree and limiting to a

large degree, especially for a replica enthusiast.

Lastly, I personally get frustrated with the notion of people who expect perfection, but fail to

ee that the responsibility for their vision must be a personal goal that is gained by sweat, either

theirs of someone elses.

Because our watches come in, either as projects, or as imperfect dogs that we learn to love.

Which brings me to the comment by the watch repair/mod person,....

Need I say more...??

RT - i don't expect a perfect watch and therefore i don't want to invest a [censored] load of money to buy all the tools so i can open the watch, fool around or making it perfect. but i do however expect a working watch and i did not get it.

I don't know why but you seem to take side on this matter because you said it not seller problem - FYI, i am going to put the IWC Ing up for sale as soon as i receive the replacement dial from Eddie.

rek001 - There is one store which carry lots of expensive watches and Unfortunately the repair person did not want to do repair works on replica watches. He gave me that indication last time when he shorten the bracelet on my PO since i don't have a link remover.

[rek001]

Oh that's too bad you can't find a watchmaker who works on reps.

I'm in the same positon as you N - I don't have the tools, time or the inclination to fix my reps but I found a watchsmith in the suburbs, a 1 hour drive each way, who can take care of my rep problems.

Good luck, I'm sure this situation will work itself out.

[Richard Tracy]

RT - i don't expect a perfect watch and therefore i don't want to invest a [censored] load of money to buy all the tools so i can open the watch, fool around or making it perfect. but i do however expect a [censored]ing working watch and i did not get it.

I don't know why but you seem to take side on this matter because you said it not seller problem - FYI, i am going to put the IWC Ing up for sale as soon as i receive the replacement dial from Eddie.

First of all,.. watch your language.. I have always been respectful to you, though I have had

many instances not to.

As for tools, you can spend less than $50 on all the tools you will ever need....Quite a bit less

that you fret away on watches weekly.

As to why I am taking sides, as you say...

I am finally full up with negative, fretful, complaining, like screaming brats that we have to

babysit all day long, replacing their pacifiers, and changing their diapers to keep them happy,

otherwise they will scream at the top of their lungs to paypal and the authorities to take us all

away in the paddy wagon...

You may have a legit problem with your seller,.. but maybe not,.. in either case however you

are premature in your crying....

As for your Iwc.. what interest do you imagine that information is to me ?

[jonthebhoy]

From what was said about those who refuse to open their watches,.... to each their own..

however I find it an attitude that is self defeating to a small degree and limiting to a

large degree, especially for a replica enthusiast.

Mmm.........not sure about that Richard. Enthusiasm takes many forms - I enthuse about my guitars and I enjoy playing them but I won't tackle a refret or rewire pick-ups or renew a truss rod and I most certainly would be unhappy if I bought a guitar with any of these items faulty and furthermore then be told "Go on fix it yourself, it's easy!".

To re-emphasise my earlier point - if the expectation is that the purchaser should rectify such perceived "minor" defects and he, through inexperience or clumsiness, screws something else up (or worst case scenario - there are other faults when the bonnet is lifted).....well that's a whole new ball game (as we have seen on these boards many times before).

In this case it's a simple agreement between buyer and seller to have the problem fixed by someone who knows what they are doing. If that has to mean sending it back then so be it, however I agree, for a watchsmith it's a 10 minute fix.

Let's not get too snobby about our pastime. There are some who will want to tinker with their wares but the vast majority won't and who are we to criticise because they don't know how to replace an o-ring or a canon-pinion for example.

JTB

[dvn]

RT - sorry for the foul language as i have lost it for a moment.

Notes: Previous post is edited.

[kanerich]

The one problem with your situation is that we're talking about the notorious modded Asian 7750 movement Daytona. If it was some other watch I would be more sympathetic (I still think a swap or some kind of partial refund is appropriate) . . . but this particular watch is basically designed to fail, which has to be some part of the consideration. I certainly am not saying you don't deserve a better resolution, but . . . with this particular watch 1) I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to buy one; and 2) especially used.

I don't agree that everything is the buyer's responsibility . . . and I cannot see how insisting both sellers and buyers be honest "deteriorates" the community. But with this particular watch . . . it was kind of risky to buy from the start. I think it is fair to keep that in mind and therefore be PATIENT in working out an equitable resolution.

[Devedander]

It's a tough spot because I would expect a dealer to repar this because that's what they are profitting on... they sell products, we pay them a premium, and as part of the risk in any business part of what you do is accept a risk that you are selling a working product, not the intention of a working product.

But between members it's a little less cut and dry since it's not really someones business so the standard may be different.

But my personal feelings are it still is on the sellers side to ensure things are basically right.

As a seller you can set the rules: Do you want insurance? How much and what kind of packaging will you use? Which carrier will you choose?

You choose then you set the price accordingly.

If you did not choose well enough to protect your product in delivery, you can take it up with the delivery carrier if they damaged it, or eat it as it was your decision as to how to deliver it. It may have been your sincere belief that what you did was enough but how is it the buyers fault if it wasn't?

The general rule of thumb in the business world is that the item belongs to the seller until it's shipped, the shipper (who is the sellers agent at this point) until it's delivered, then the buyer once it is delievered.

There has to be some honesty in figuring out where the issue came about (ie was it sent damaged, did the shipper damage it or did the buyer after he recieved it) to correctly determine who should bear the burden of repair or replacement.

By the general rule of who owns what during the process only if damage occurs after the buyer recieves it should it be his burdern entirely.

If damage occurs during shipping, the carrier is the agent of the seller and the seller is therefore still responsible, may persue his agent for restitution, but the buyer is not responsible.

Now because of our hobbie persuing restitution can be a bit harder, but again that's something I think any seller should figure into his price... the percentage risk that he takes something goes wrong.

As for expecting the buyer to repair something I think if the buyer is capable of doing a repair with reasonable ease, he should (for the communities benefit) go ahead and do it.

However it should not be expected that a buyer will have that skill unless you have some reason to think so (for instance if The Zigmeister was the one who bought this watch I would think he would certainly do the fix himself).

Personally I work on computers a lot, if you sell me a motherboard with a corrupted BIOS I know how to hot flash it (assuming I have an identical board) and would have no problem attempting this process to save any hassle.

But I certainly wouldn't expect this from anyone I sold a mother board to unless I knew in advance this was the type of person who could handle this.

I don't think there was any reason to believe nguyendd could perform any kind of watch mod from his posts and history so it woudln't be right to assume he coudl perform any repair (no matter how simple it may seem to you and me) nor that he should.

Risks abound on all sides, but the seller gets to set the rules and is the one taking in the money so I tend to say unless there is some understanding ahead of time, I expect the seller to take a larger portion of the burden of risk...

That's just me though...

Edited November 15, 2006 by Devedander

[Richard Tracy]

Mmm.........not sure about that Richard. Enthusiasm takes many forms - I enthuse about my guitars and I enjoy playing them but I won't tackle a refret or rewire pick-ups or renew a truss rod and I most certainly would be unhappy if I bought a guitar with any of these items faulty and furthermore then be told "Go on fix it yourself, it's easy!".

To re-emphasise my earlier point - if the expectation is that the purchaser should rectify such perceived "minor" defects and he, through inexperience or clumsiness, screws something else up (or worst case scenario - there are other faults when the bonnet is lifted).....well that's a whole new ball game (as we have seen on these boards many times before).

In this case it's a simple agreement between buyer and seller to have the problem fixed by someone who knows what they are doing. If that has to mean sending it back then so be it, however I agree, for a watchsmith it's a 10 minute fix.

Let's not get too snobby about our pastime. There are some who will want to tinker with their wares but the vast majority won't and who are we to criticise because they don't know how to replace an o-ring or a canon-pinion for example.

JTB

Snobby is not the word here JTB... Practical, is my sentiment..

Regarding your point about the possibility of ruining your watch if working on it yourself...

Yes the risk is there.. as is the reward,... however we are only discussing cheap replicas here,..

not the real deal,.. which, imo, makes perfect sense, not only in a situation such as this but,

in the majority of purchases we take on via dealers.

Mind you, that I am not speaking of any major work here,... I've not the time, or as you say,

the inclination,.. no,.. just the simple things, the easy adjustments that are almost

so grade school, that an expert would look at you sideways if you were to bring it to him, but be glad

that you did, so he can spend a minute and make a pocket full, all the while laughing inside....

My main point however is what seems like a growing mall mentality that spreads unrealistic expectations

into a game where the rules are of a sort that keep us together as a community in as much harmony

as we can obtain without anyone feeling stepped upon, or called out prematurely.