Is It Normal

[Devedander]

UPDATE: The first review has been posted here (actually the other transaction happened first but this is just the one I put up first) http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15946

The second member review can be read here http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15949

Both are rather long...

To have them accept an offer, take payment, then end up not selling to you?

I have made offers on two watches from two users in the members section, had the offer accepted, sent payment (deposit in one case, full in the other) then had the member tell me hours later, sorry, sold to someone else.

In once case someone came in later and offered more money and in the other apparently someone paid before me even though after sending payment I got confirmation the watch was mine.

I suppose it's up to the seller ultimately which way a sale goes, but in every other business I have been in, once you say sold, it's sold... you don't take offers anymore and you don't confirm that payment is accepted if you aren't sure...

I am asking because it's very frustrating... it's one thing to find out it's sold already or something, but once you are told it's a go it's really unpleasant to have it reversed on you.

If this is business as normal in the members section I will probably just give up on it and stick to dealers, but would like to know to save myself the frustration in the long run.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Devedander

[KB]

No this is not on, I suggest to stop this practise a negative member review in both cases could be in order.

If a seller accepts your offer and then accepts payment they have no right to bail out for more money or any other reason.

Ken

[Devedander]

Thanks ken... I will consider that.

The ironic part is that despite all my loudmouthing about honest reviews I was actually holding back because I didn't want to make bad blood on the forum... especially because it's not like it was going to make the seller turn around and change his mind.

But I suppose it really is for the best of the forum to do so regardless...

Thanks for the response.

[Epanoui]

To me, that is a little sneaky. Once payment is made, that should be the end of it. Period.

But, I see where the seller is coming from. There are some really poor buyers on these forums who are looking to take advantage of people trying to sell their watches for cheap. They offer really really stupid prices, way below the watches market value, hoping to get a great deal. Often, a forum member will agree to the sale for fear that they're watch won't sell unless they say yes to this person, unknowing that there are other people out there willing to pay more, they just need to be more patient.

I recently had a situation like this, where someone made me an offer. 200 shipped on a watch that cost me 280. That's ridiculous. I got them to go up in price a little, but only if I waited 2 weeks for them to get a paycheck or something. So I just simply told them that it would still be fore sale, and if in two weeks it was still here, it was there's, but if someone made a better offer, then I would sell it off. And that's exactly what happened. I posted what the offer was and then someone came up with a counter offer that beat it, and I sold to them. But they key thing is, I never told the other person that it was sold, and never accepted any money. I think that is taking it too far.

I think this community would really benefit from two types of sales. If someone wants to set a firm price on watch, then fine. Sell if for that price, firm, and don't accept any offers.

But another approach would be to simply open a thread up auction style. Sort of a RWGBay, set up and ending date and time, and whoever has the highest price (past a starting or reserve price) in the thread wins when it closes. This would really be a good way to make sure that the seller gets the best price. But then I like to keep everything open and honest, I don't like the backdealing stuff.

But yea Dev, accepting your offer and taking payment is too far, and I'm sorry to hear it's happened to you on 2 occasions. I'd write a review on them for sure, if nothing else, it's at least a warning message to other buyers that might have to go through the same thing.

[Devedander]

I totally understand what you mean about fear of not being able to sell, in fact one of my offers was about 10% under asking price...

I don't have a ton of money so sometimes I am a few short on asking price of watch, so I will ask if the seller will accept extra. I try to be rasonable (I don't offer $50 on a new @6 daytona, but I might offer pretty low if I feel there is a legitimate reason the watch will be in low demand, ie gen 3 PO when there are new gens out) but I always feels it's totally fair of the seller to say no for any reason at all.

If you feel scared your watch won't sell and accept, my view is, that's tough... you accepted... unless aliens had a probe in your brain and were controlling you, you made a choice and it's up to you to live with the results. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

What if I offer you full price for fear you will sell it before I get a chance to buy it, then later you say "hey most of my watches aren't sellin, 30% price drop accross the board" would it be right for me to say "hey I want 30% back from what I paid you"? No... I say it doesn't matter why you agree to buy or sell, it's your choice to make and it's done...

I would hate to see the floods of email if our dealers got hit up for refund requests if someone bought a watch a few days before the price dropped... heck I might buy a PAM for fear they will stop making it, but gives me no more right to ask for money back if the price drops because the factory spits out 100k more that floods the market.

If Paul has a crazy sale to clear out some Guccis that he thinks won't sell, then a week later some big star is seen wearing that Gucci and it becomes super popular, would it be right of Paul to stop shipment on all those Guccis and email the buyers saying "sorry, I had a clearance for fear I would be stuck with stock, but when it turns out the risk went away I reversed my gamble and now want you to pay more."

And action out of fear (or any action) is a gamble, you decide if you want to take that gamble or not, but it feels quite litterally like dirty poker to renig on a gamble after the fact.

The thing that really urks me is in both occassions it feels really fishy...

But I will cover that in my reviews.

I really hate to do something like write a negative review of a member since it will undoubtably hurt feelings, but I hope it's fair to say that it's not my fault the review is being written but rather that the member created the review himself by way of his actions, and I would be the one amiss should I keep it from the forum.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Devedander

[jdavis]

IMHO, to renege on an agreed upon transaction is unethical. Particularly after money has been exchanged to confirm the deal. This is like accepting an invitation and then accepting a second invitation with greater appeal. Simply rude and less than honorable behavior.