HauteHippie Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 FYI, I have been working with a few USA-based AR coating companies who deal with watch crystals to define specs and pricing for our crystals, and should soon be able to help provide this service for interested parties in the USA. I will not offer this for UK/European members as Finepics has that covered already. Here are some of the preliminary details : Coating color: Neutral with a very slight greenish tint (blue may be available alternatively) Coating type: Visible light, multi-layer AR Reflectance: < 1% on the coated surface (one side coated only) Turn around time: 2-3 weeks This is not a one off service. Multiple crystals must be collected and submitted at once to get reasonable pricing. Pricing preliminarily looks to be as follows: 25 crystals - $60 USD per crystal 50 crystals - $30 USD per crystal The maximum size of a single run is actually 75, but I'm not sure I want to work with more than 50 at a time and the pricing wouldn't improve much anyhow. This pricing is for crystals that do NOT already have an AR coat applied. For crystals that have AR already and need it stripped prior to application of a new coat, an entirely different pricing structure would apply - that service would come later. OK, now, here is my attempt at photographing the AR coat sample. There are some variables here. First off the round crystal is an uncoated submariner sapphire crystal. The square glass is non-sapphire and coated with the bluish/puplish AR film. So the two substrates have different refraction indicies, but I think it's close enough to see what we're dealing with. Also let me state that the AR coating does not provide a lot of assistance with direct light sources. It does do a good job with ambient reflections. I can't look at the AR coated piece and see the other side of the room in it, like I can in my uncoated watch crystals for example. On to the pics... In this picture you can see the very subtle tint on the AR piece. You can also see that major glare will never be eliminated, but it is subdued somewhat compared to the non-coated crystal: Now, in this picture you can see that regular ambient glare is reflected off the uncoated crystal but not off the coated one: And here is another glare comparison between coated and uncoated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovepanerai Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 great effort Chieftang I guess the difficulty would be to determine who send you what crystals - one way of doing this would be to measure the crystals (thickness and diameter) and not to worry about who send you what crystal...assuming that let's say all IWC Ingenieur crystals are the same. I just counted and would need AR coating on 15 crystals, which I would do all at once if we get enough interested to do over 50 thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammalone Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 very interested, just worried about how to remove the crystals...THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 i am supremly interested. The one problem i have is removing crystals, which i bet if i tried hard i could find a watchmaker to do for me. There is the problem of who's crystal is who's do they have a solution for that? and, have you built money for yourself into the process? because handling 25 crystals from random members is ALOT of work. there is no way you want to get into this for free or you will never make it past hte first run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premiumdesigners Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 im in for at least 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 i am supremly interested. The one problem i have is removing crystals, which i bet if i tried hard i could find a watchmaker to do for me. There is the problem of who's crystal is who's do they have a solution for that? and, have you built money for yourself into the process? because handling 25 crystals from random members is ALOT of work. there is no way you want to get into this for free or you will never make it past hte first run There is going to have to be a labelling requirement in place with the company - i.e. I will organize the lot with numbers (say from 1 to 50), and they will return the lot numbered the same way. Otherwise, as lovepanerai pointed out, I will have to measure each one which I'm afraid to do because I don't want to be handling the coated crystals bare. There is some money built in for my time, but the main benefit to me is getting my own crystals coated at very low cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) This sounds pretty sweet... do you really think the demand would be around to do monthly? Not many I would want done in my current collection but a few I have in mind down the road I would want in on... Edited November 28, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 There is going to have to be a labelling requirement in place with the company - i.e. I will organize the lot with numbers (say from 1 to 50), and they will return the lot numbered the same way. Otherwise, as lovepanerai pointed out, I will have to measure each one which I'm afraid to do because I don't want to be handling the coated crystals bare. There is some money built in for my time, but the main benefit to me is getting my own crystals coated at very low cost! Good then, those prices are good - also, find out if they can coat on an uneven surface like a cyclops or does it have to be removed. I knew this could be a good business for someone. i hope for all of us the best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 This sounds pretty sweet... do you really think the demand would be around to do monthly? Not many I would want done in my current collection but a few I have in mind down the road I would want in on... Once we get into removing the crappy rep coats and reapplying I think the demand will be there. The main issue is that most people don't want to remove crystals and that's probably what is preventing cheap mods like good magnifiers and good AR coating from really catching on. Even if we only do a few runs, that's fine. I have a handful of crystals that need to be taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Good then, those prices are good - also, find out if they can coat on an uneven surface like a cyclops or does it have to be removed. Coating the uneven surface is a non-issue. But there is a *potential* issue in that the glue used to attach the cyclops may pop in the vacuum chamber during the coating process. I would like to hear from Finepics on this one and see what his experiences have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M5Man Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Great find! Could we send in a bulk in multiple shipments or so they all have to come in at the same time? I have about 3 crystals that I would like to do AR on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Once we get into removing the crappy rep coats and reapplying I think the demand will be there. The main issue is that most people don't want to remove crystals and that's probably what is preventing cheap mods like good magnifiers and good AR coating from really catching on. Even if we only do a few runs, that's fine. I have a handful of crystals that need to be taken care of. That makes me think... most of the reps I would want coated already come with "light AR"... I know one step at a time, but do you have a ballpark on what the likely cost difference is going to be to remove AR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovepanerai Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 That makes me think... most of the reps I would want coated already come with "light AR"... I know one step at a time, but do you have a ballpark on what the likely cost difference is going to be to remove AR? "light AR" is code for no AR at all...that's marketing baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dario33 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 "light AR" is code for no AR at all...that's marketing baby Exactly...I have my PO crystal in mind for this AR service. Nice work chieftang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Exactly...I have my PO crystal in mind for this AR service. Nice work chieftang! Concern - i have the new PO coming soon, it has AR, not light AR - guess i will see when it gets here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy1 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I have gotten mine done at the LARGE (i.e. n store lab) Lenscrafters in the mall for $70 plus tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I have gotten mine done at the LARGE (i.e. n store lab) Lenscrafters in the mall for $70 plus tax. Did they do this while you waited? Hmmm, this would be a nice option assuming a high quality coating. However, pricing of $70 per is more than 2x what we can get in quantities of 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dario33 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Concern - i have the new PO coming soon, it has AR, not light AR - guess i will see when it gets here I was refering to the new PO (which will be coming soon for me too). It mentions "light AR", which I assume to mean no AR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I was refering to the new PO (which will be coming soon for me too). It mentions "light AR", which I assume to mean no AR. on the page is does NOT say light ar, it specifically says AR - i don't know if that was missed on their part. Most of his other watches say light ar, you have to always check http://perfect-clones.com/omse10029-planet...ate-p-2204.html "Sapphire crystal AR coating" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 UPDATE - UPDATE - UPDATE Here are new details : 1) Pricing looks certain at $60/25 or $30/50. Max crystals per run is going to be 50. 2) AR Coating *will* have a slight blue/purple tint not the slight green tint originally mentioned. By the way, the Lenscrafters coating has the greenish tint to it. 3) The coating is to be handled VERY carefully. It is a room temperature coating which is not designed to be durable. This makes it very cost effective and appropriate for applying to the interior surface of watch crystals. 4) Turn around time from the lab is quoted as one to two weeks. 5) Removal of existing AR coating can be performed at a cost of $100 per run. There are some potential issues with this. If the existing coat was a high temperature (higher cost) AR coat, then stripping will fail and perhaps render the crystal useless. But if the existing coat was a room temperature (lower cost) AR coat, then stripping will succeed. I would *guess* that our reps have low cost AR coats that could be stripped, but I do not know. So anyone wanting an existing coat stripped will have to do so at the risk of potentially damaging their crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 the next logical question is where to source affordable non-ar crystals - this saves the problem of popping it out and it saves the problem of stripping. was that 100/crystal or 100/25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 the next logical question is where to source affordable non-ar crystals - this saves the problem of popping it out and it saves the problem of stripping. was that 100/crystal or 100/25 $100 per run.... If there are 50 crystals in the run, it's a $100 charge. If there are 2 crystals in the run, it's a $100 charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdorman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I have a few that I would like to do as well. Although, I might wait for the second batch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dario33 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Instructions on removing crystal from a PO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subzero1 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I said this over at TRC, but I'll repeat here, if we can get $30 price I'm in for 5. If we can only get the $60 price, I'm in for 3. Instructions on removing crystal from a PO? Remove caseback, remove movement, put your thumb on the inside of the crystal and push real hard. Or, remove the caseback and movement, put the watch case inside a thick sock, wedge it between the floor and a wall and tap out the crystal from the inside with a hammer (yes, I've done this). Don't hit it too hard, cause it can shatter (yes, I've done this too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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