umairarif Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hi I dont know why but I feel like a chrono rep watch is more vulnerable to break then a non chrono. I think chrono watches are more complicated so they can break or get damage easily thats why even if I like a chrono rep watch I will avoid to buy it. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Any movement is vulnerable especially a rep of any.. Some are more robust than others ... A7750s with chronos can be as good if not better than an A7750 non chrono it all depnds on servicing and quality overall and using it... there are specific dos and donts with rep chronos or indeed any rep movement... But a blanket statement like that about Chrono V Non chrono has so many variables even in the rep world that to avoid simply on its additional complication is not really a factor... As there are so many other reasons that most rep movements fail... other than its complications and of course it also depends which specific movements you are referring to... As there are many Non Chrono movements and a good few Chrono movements and another good few of chrono movements with non chrono complications and limited chrono functions etc etc plus chronos with modded complications..and non chronos with modded complications... IMHO your reasoning is not defintive enough to justify avoiding them across the board.. just because of their complication or complications... more specific reasons need to be made and specific movements and complications need to be identified and compared before you can simply say avoid one and not the other... For example do you mean an A7750 non chrono comapred to an A7750 with full chrono or a bicompax or a secs at 12 complication or mod or do you mean comapred to manual or do you mean other movements like the 7753s or A07s etc or completely different like the STs or one of the 28**s etc... and do you include other complications like date or day etc The variables are so many it is a call I would never make... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umairarif Posted December 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 PeteM thanks thats a great response i have many things to think about from your post and completely understand what you said, i might make few choices and then bring it up in this thread so it would be very specific. cheers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 PeteM thanks thats a great response i have many things to think about from your post and completely understand what you said, i might make few choices and then bring it up in this thread so it would be very specific. cheers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I just hope you take a look at them all as equals in the first place and then as you research the watch/es that has/ve caught your eye you can make a more informed choice and that you dont end up avoiding some great reps and great choices out of a blanket concern... Knowing the specific issues and flaws etc always helps but until you know the exact watch/model you want it is always hard for anyone to make a judgement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I will have to disagree slightly with PeteM here. The chronograph function adds more variables to the satisfactory operation of your rep. There are simply more things that can go wrong. But I do agree that you shouldn't avoid chronograph reps entirely, because 1) there are so many good ones out there, and 2) you can service the movements of the ones you really like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I will have to disagree slightly with PeteM here. The chronograph function adds more variables to the satisfactory operation of your rep. There are simply more things that can go wrong. But I do agree that you shouldn't avoid chronograph reps entirely, because 1) there are so many good ones out there, and 2) you can service the movements of the ones you really like. TBH mate...I dont think you are based on your first line... or certainly not with what I meant.. What I was trying to say was that by simply being a chrono it doesnt make it any less or more reliable than other rep movements..if you are basing your choice simply on the rep being a chrono then you will find that there are equally if not more unreliable rep movements that aint chronos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umairarif Posted December 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 ok i have shortlisted and keen to buy tag aquaracer chrono and breitling super avenger chrono both in on asian movements, whats your thought about these? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 ok i have shortlisted and keen to buy tag aquaracer chrono and breitling super avenger chrono both in on asian movements, whats your thought about these? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Which versions mate ? The SA is made by 2 makers... however I like them both for different reasons..I have had a few and never had a problem with any of them... I usually always get mine serviced within a few months... I have never heard of any consistent issues with either makers... if you want them serviced and waterproofed in UK contact Alex at UKwatchservices... he is watchsmith on RWI Many guys franken these models as it is quite easy to source the gen parts and relatively cheap... indeed many swap with a gen 7750...plus getting a gen leather or gen diver bracelet really makes this a great rep.. (dial style depending) If you want them modded then Alex doesnt do that ... but Domi or LeWiz in EU will ..plus a few very skilled UK members here will do it for a few people now and again The TAG I know nothing about mate ... without researching it myself Overall the SA movements will do the job you want and will give you a lot of pleasure if its serviced .. OTB they generally perform well and issues are few upon arrival.. it is no more or less risky buying say a HBB King 48mm..that is a 7750 non chrono yet more guys moan about that as the seconds hand can be hacky.. And if you get one or any rep 7750 just remember to follow the dos and donts using an auto rep movement... like winding, date changing and if chrono using the chronos... Something I wouldnt do personally but some dealers do offer a service before sending out...guys like Andrew,Josh and Angus plus I think a few others possibly like TB I aint sure..but you hear mixed feedback on doing that... But SAs are seen regularly on the M2M board and most have been serviced or modded and/or fitted with gen bracelet or strap etc...they tend to be good value compared to what it cost you to do from scratch..but of course depends on your budget at the time of purchase.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 TBH mate...I dont think you are based on your first line... or certainly not with what I meant.. In that case, let's disagree to agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chango Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I'm done with rep chronos. I had two A7750s with seconds at 9 and both broke on short order. One is unwearable. The other is MIA with MD2020. I might change my mind if I get good at overhauling my own watches or if I find a reliable watchsmith willing to work on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umairarif Posted December 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Also why non of the TDs dont offer swiss movements in their chrono rep watches? they all come with asian movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryaku Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'm done with rep chronos. I had two A7750s with seconds at 9 and both broke on short order. One is unwearable. The other is MIA with MD2020. I might change my mind if I get good at overhauling my own watches or if I find a reliable watchsmith willing to work on them. This is key talking about rep watches, too many potential headaches due to lack of QC regardless of chrono / non-chrono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 In that case, let's disagree to agree! I knew we could never disagree but can always disagree to agree or anything we might disagree about agreeing... is always worth being agreeable about Makers do still produce Swiss Valjoux reps but they are few and far between... a recent example was the 243..but there are some that can be got But even if you bought swiss..which i would never do myself.. from a dealer...it is just as likely to have issues as an Asian and that is assuming what you get is actually a full swiss movemnet and not a hybrid of parts put together or just a flat out fake swiss.. Even the so called gens on the bay etc are just if not more likely to be full of issues as any asian... The key in all cases is to get a service and follow the dos and donts.... Oh and be creful who you get to do the service...I aint joking or digging about Mike now I genyuinely mean that.. I had a watch I bought on RWI that a guy got serviced by a professsional watchsmith unrelated to this forum... he completely f*cked it up ..he lost parts, used glue over oiled etc etc and charged a £160 for the privilege ! That guy sold me that watch as a serviced A7750 and innocently so...but the watch was completely f*cked !! I think the member in question still thinks that I was over playing the issues not that I benefitted from saying it... but it shows how much trust you can misplace in a watchsmith just by not understanding the basics of buying a service or product... Who you get to do the service is very important..I do not mean whether you get the watch back or kept for months..I just mean someone who not ony can service it but also who will use all his skill and diligence to do a good job... you can get the best most professional watchsmith around but he might be an alcoholic or just lazy or may have no respect for a rep...then you get it done and later it goes wrong..all the guy has to do is say well its a rep !! Someone like Domi or Le Wiz dont do it like that..if it goes wromng a few months later they take it back and sort it no questions asked.. Plus you get guys selling thier reps with chronos... guys buying just ask does it reset ? thats it...but you ahve no idea if that guy may not have followed the dos and donts or if he tried doing anything himself etc etc its even the same with a gen.. So why guys think anything that needs a service int worth buying is thinking wrong... a service of any watch every couple of years is a must gen or rep... and who does it counts for a lot.. I have had dozens of asian 7750s straight from the dealers.... only one has been a probem for me.... BUT I have had just as many from members and nearly half had an issue of some kind... Its the same with gens..whether used or new..I had a PAM auto that died on me a week after buying from the AD... it took 3 months to get resolved... so £5K up in the air for 3 months after only a week..and I couldnt just ask for replacement as it was a waiting list item..!! So I think when you compare the values involved in this game then the risks are minimal and even easier to minimise if you are prepared to do it prudently Just finding a watchsmith doesnt mean you wont get shafted .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umairarif Posted December 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 PeteM what about no swiss movements offered in rep chrono watches they are always asian. why? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 PeteM what about no swiss movements offered in rep chrono watches they are always asian. why? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If I follow the question mate... The main reason is cost ...most guys and remember we are including guys outside our forums... want a cheapish watch to copy the gen thye dont care like we do about the quality of a movement... they just want it to look like a gen that is even assuming they know the difference !! But in addition .... you have issues like sourcing and installing in terms of wastage or damage done by these guys working for the maker etc etc... It is easier and cheaper for us to buy a rep and swap the movement for a Swiss than it is to ask for makers to make versions with Swiss movements You can just picture a guy posting a thread on here.. I am looking at this SA and they are both same but one has Swiss 7750 and one is Asian. 7750.. but price is $400 (minimum) difference which should I buy? Replies would all say get the Asian ...it is a good movement and when serviced is robust and will last for years if done right and looked after... or it will be get Asian and swap with a Swiss it would be cheaper or you can be certain that the whole movement is Swiss or not a dud etc etc You can buy a Swiss on its own either new or used for around $300 upwards (its a straight swap most of time)..... you can buy a cheap used watch with a Swiss movemnt and swap...I have bought a Swiss 25J 7750 in a crappy watch for $120... the point is if you search and know what to look for and do your due diligence etc you can pick up a pretty cheap Swiss..but be careful you can just as easily get scammed with a swiss Or you can when getting the watch serviced have the watchsmith replace the more critical parts with ETA parts ..so you end up with a franken movement...again I have done that but its usually chepaer to just buy the movemnt whole... So if you get a rep with 7750.... wear it for a bit and then decide if its going to be kept for a period of time either a keeper or say I will keep it for at least this year etc then you can decide if you want to pay out for a service... and also balance that against buying a Swiss 7750 maybe already serviced ... If that is say 350 Euros and a service on the rep is 150 Euros then that 150 Euros mnight be a good option if you want to keep it or at least plan to... Then when selling take the Swiss out and replace with the original movement or sell complete and cover cost of movement and a percentage of the initial movement service cost against how long you owned it or wore it etc... Another good way is to always look about for a Swiss...whether in a watch or on its own or in the M2M and if its cheap enough buy it even if you dont need it at that time... what you are doing is tking advantage of how cheap it is... then use it later...there will always come a time when you will want a rep running 7750..and if not you can still sell it later on as someone will always want one.. But in any case you should always teach yourself about all the variations of the Swiss movements..ie Beat rate, Jewels, complications, etc etc most of these are usually dependant on each other but it is good to understand them..when looking and asking sellers..and of course you can ask on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umairarif Posted December 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 PeteM thanks for spending time on replying in detail but sorry i still dont get it why the rep factories cant put used swiss chrono movements in rep chrono watches. i think it will take same process, amount of time and money may be to do that. even if they have to repair or replace parts on swiss chrono movement like they do on non chrono, i dont see the point why cant they do that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 PeteM thanks for spending time on replying in detail but sorry i still dont get it why the rep factories cant put used swiss chrono movements in rep chrono watches. i think it will take same process, amount of time and money may be to do that. even if they have to repair or replace parts on swiss chrono movement like they do on non chrono, i dont see the point why cant they do that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So are saying that you would buy a used Swiss in a rep from a maker for a $4/500 mark up... knowing just alone the way the makers operate and produce watches? Even most of the reps stating Swiss anything (other movements) are usually anything but Swiss.... Have you read the threads by Angus in his section.... it may help your understanding of the rep industry plus I would suggest you read around more mate generally regarding the rep makers as a whole... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umairarif Posted December 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 So are saying that you would buy a used Swiss in a rep from a maker for a $4/500 mark up... knowing just alone the way the makers operate and produce watches? Even most of the reps stating Swiss anything (other movements) are usually anything but Swiss.... Have you read the threads by Angus in his section.... it may help your understanding of the rep industry plus I would suggest you read around more mate generally regarding the rep makers as a whole... ok great read thanks for pointing that out, I will come back to the main purpose of thread that I think chrono watches are more pron to go dead than non chrono, now in connection to that as I cant find any TD offering a rep chrono watch with a swiss movement I thought its because they cant find any used swiss movements in just ok working order or even not good enough to repair and put them in rep watches? that made me think more that if non chrono reps a better choice, I am just explaining what I thought. I understand what you guys are trying to tell me, So I will definitely buy a rep chrono soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 If you think about the skill involved in each way of doing it, with a cheap A 7750 movement the assembler just has to put the movement, dial, hands together, put it in the case, put crown and pushers on, etc. it's a (relatively) simple skill level.To fix a Swiss 7750 you would need a trained watch smith, someone who can dismantle the movement, fix the problem and put it together. That person would need to be paid a much higher salary, plus there are only so many old 7750s out there, so if you want to produce 5000 chrono watches it'll be 4750 Asian movements and 250 Swiss movements, just makes sense from a cost point of view.And you're still going to have a problem in that the watch smith who got the job is the one happy to be paid the lowest salary of all the other watch smiths who applied for the job, so isn't going to be the best, so the fixed and reassembled watch, well, I won't buy one, put it that way!If you really want the chrono movement to work at its best for a long time to come, buy the watch you've decided on with an A7750 movement and then get it serviced straight away. The service will make sure there's no dirt or grime in there, and there is the correct oil where it should be (and there is not oil anywhere else, which is a bad thing in watches) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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