Andrew's "perfect" Sub Vs Joshua's Perfect Sub

[Mars]

Hello Hello,

I'm a newbie, this is my 1st post.

I have been looking at Andrew's "Perfect" and Joshua's Perfect sub (looking to get one). I compared these two subs on the website that they are offering. Most aspects are similar except in price?

Can anyone explain the price difference? Does quality affect the price?

Cheers!

[rocket754]

well...1. you get what you pay for.

2. you will soon learn that most of these watches really are coming from the same factories.

3. with each dealers price you get some perks ( this will come with experience). Trusty and Josh are great dealers but you really can't lose when you by from either one.

4. choose your dealer then choose your watch

5. it is mandatory of every newbie on the forum to ask "who has the best sub"

[TwoTone]

Haven't looked lately...

But if I remember correctly...

Josh's Perfect Sub includes CG Mod's and Trusty's doesn't...

TT

[Mars]

Hi Two tone,

What's a CG modded?

[Craytonic]

He means the crown guards (things around the winder). On reps they are always too fat.

[Mars]

Hahaha..

Still not familiar with all the abbreviations. Could someone have link to where the Abbreviations means?

Cheers.

[hwrd]

Both are excellent and quick responding dealers. However Andrew's "perfect sub" makes more sense given the price difference for almost identical products except for some minor mods. If this is impotant to you go with Joshua.

[lionsandtigers]

both those dealers offer excellent products and excellent service.

Welcome to the boards, and the fun world of rep collecting. Here's a glossary of terms for you to get familiar with:

RWG Glossary of Terms

[gioarmani]

Without trying to sound pretentious, I'd like to add my two cents if I could; mainly because there's a question about this almost daily. I think you'll find there's a little grey area here, but I believe this might be the simplest & best solution to your question. I've (fortunately and unfortunately) spent a bit of money in an attempt to not only sort this out for myself and others, but to also have a little fun in the process.

First (slightly off track but still relevant) I'd like to say--in the long-run--it's probably wisest to stay away from Asian movements, if you can. Good luck getting non-swiss parts and better luck getting it fixed correctly. I know a lot of people like Asian movements and might disagree with me, but you'll do best to stick with ETA (Swiss movements). They last longer, are a snap to find parts for, and are more reliable over the long-term. Now that we've segued into the ETAs, it's a bit easier to narrow your search from here.

I've ordered from almost every dealer on the boards, and then some (including watches from dealers I did not do business with directly, but instead purchased from other board members), and this is what I've come to find. Please do bear in mind I would never play favorites and I certainly wouldn't allow any relationship--business or personal--interfere with my judgement, so I'll try to be unbiased towards any particular dealer, by attempting to speak only from the fact I've personally encountered from my purchases, and the purchases I've made on behalf and/or at the request of other people.

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=256

In an over-all view, I believe Andrew's "relaunched" version of the Submariner (above) to be the best on the current market. This is, of course, a bit generalized but taking into account the aesthetic pros & cons of all the Subs out there, I think this one tilts the scale to it's favor.

Now, the ETA Subs from both Josh & Andrew are much better than the past generations and have better bands, crisper dial prints, and closely perfected crowns & crown-guards. EL's is also a spectacular watch, seeing as it's the same body & band that Andrew sold before replacing it with the "relaunch".

You also have the choice between vintage and non-vintage models. The vintage would probably be more fun to mod. A vintage Sub fresh from the dealers without mods tends to look so new (without, of course, said modifications) that no one will believe it's real, for its "age". And the believability factor is a heavily weighing option (if not the primary reason) for purchasing a Rolex rep; don't believe those who say they don't care about the brand, they just "like the way it looks", as opposed to simply buying the $30 Timex that looks the exact same. So stick with the new design of Sub, if you don't plan on doing much of anything to it, other than wearing it to have the Rolex name on your wrist.

Now similar to almost every other mass-manufactured good on the planet, these Swiss movements are assembled in China. The parts are manufactured in Switzerland, but simply put together elsewhere to absorb a great portion of the labor cost. Eta has their movements assembled in China for most all their buyers: Cartier, Tiffany's, Oris, Baume & Mercier, Tag Heuer, etc. Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of Swiss movements come oiled--they don't all come dry. If they did, they'd all be dead in a matter of weeks. You most likely won't/shouldn't need to have it serviced (disassembled & oiled) for about 2-3 years of average wear. Most Swiss watch makers suggest a five-year service & cleaning. Also contrary to general consensus, these watches are more waterproof than the credit they're generally given; the sports models, mind you, not the more refined banker's watches like Vacheron Constantin, Patek, etc. It's worth the extra $20, or whatever your area watch-smiths currently charge, to have it pressure tested. I've yet to have one (of my own, or one I've tested for somebody else) that failed waterproofing, and I swim & shower in all of mine.

I'd have to say, depending on which model you're looking for--especially in the Rolex category--Andrew or Josh are your best bet for the best models (go with Davidsen for your Panerai). In true fairness to all the others, the dealers on here are all trustworthy & credible; otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to continue to ply their trade on the board. I've purchased a slew of reps over the past few months, for myself and other people (Subs, GMTs, Datejusts, Daydates, Daytonas, Omegas, Panerai, Cartier, Bulgari, mens & womens, etc...), and I've found these two gentlemen to be the most courteous, the most efficient, and to have the most consistency in their service, their expedited shipping, and their product.

http://perfect-clones.com/

http://www.trustytime.com/

If I had to pick a runner up (in the Rolex category), it would definitely be EL (Eddie Lee).

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/300thomas/

He's got a great case with almost perfect CGs, and the best dial print out there. I've reason to believe it's the same one Andrew uses in his "relaunch", and the one TTK has in his Asian model as well.

If you don't want to pay the $90 to have your Sub serviced in the next 3 years, or the $20 to pressure-test it, but do wish to swim in your Submariner, then the "perfect" Subs are a good choice for you. I have come to find however, that the "perfect" subs are either utilizing different parts (primarily the cases) that seem to possess slight irregularity's in shape that stray not only from the regular ETA Sub reps, but also the shape of the gens as well. The pearls on the bezel insert tend to be a little flat, rather than having a proper dome shape to them, and the serrated edge on the crowns tend to have more rounded edges, rather than coming to a "point" like they do on the regular Subs. Compared to my gen, the "perfects" also have a date-mag that's a bit too big. A lot of people have the notion that the date window (the white portion of the datewheel that shows through the opening in the dial, directly underneath the cyclops eye) is supposed to almost completely fill the viewing area of the entire cyclops. It's not. In fact, if you take a trip to an AD, you'll see they only fill about 3/4 of the cyclops.

From my own personal experience, I think it's more cost-effective to purchase a regular Sub (the models around $200), and if you wish, pay your smith the extra $90 to have it serviced/oiled (but definitely get it pressure-tested!). This works out much cheaper than the "perfect" Subs, and I feel you'll actually wind up with a better looking watch.

I hope this was helpful.

[Pugwash]

Without trying to sound pretentious, I'd like to add my two cents if I could;

And you can!

Excellent post.

[Mars]

Thank gioarmani and other forumers! Appreciated all your inputs.

[jomama]

Gioarmani:

Great post!

Only one question;Who is Davidson (recommended for Paneria) and where is the link on the recommended dealer site? If not there, can you provide link??

Thanks!

[fitmic]

It's Panerai!

I suggest you use the search function and read a lot.

But to help you out to get to Davidsen: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showforum=72

[FWATCH]

I'm no expert, but I have Joshua's "perfect sub", and what impressed me the most was that it really looks and feels great. It's hard to explain, but if someone told me that this was a replica, I'd have to say that they were crazy. I think it's a beauty.