photon Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) This was offered on another forum. The seller claims: the crown is gen and a V72 is inside (but, no pics of the movement). Is there any way we can tell the type of movement inside from say for example the sub-dial spacing? Can you guess who made the case and dial? The case looks different from any of DW's. Edited January 10, 2014 by photon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The dial looks like the cartel 6238 dial. It's hard to tell if the pushers are asymmetrical, but if they are, it could be the cartel 6238 with the Venus 175 movement in it where the subdial at 6 o'clock is fixed since the Venus 175 was a bicompax chronograph movement.If it was a 6238 with the V72 inside, it would be worth at least $2K, if not $3K!Tell the guy to show you a pic of the movement.I've built a 6238 w/ the V72 and I can tell you finding a decent dial is next to impossible. Mine came from Phong and it's not that goodCase is also by Phong.BTW, if you were able to pick up the cartel 6238 with the Venus 175 inside for $200-300, it would be a good deal- they're not a bad looking rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photon Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thank you for the input. Yes, the seller asks 2.5k for this and I don't think people buy this unless the movement pics are shown. This is definitely not the ST19 version that you are referring to, if you carefully look into the T SWISS T print below the bottom subdial. The notch under the pusher on this claimed to be V72 watch is different from those of cartel or DW cases. ST19 version: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photon Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I found another version from a rep factory that is driven by A7750 with working 6 o'clock hand: BTW, I am looking for a 6238 dial (black or silver just like the one above) for 7750 (well it should be 7753). Please let me known if you have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The gen 6238 doesn't have the notches in the case either.The dial has no lume dots at 3, 6, and 9 like the gen, that I can see from the pic.But you can see where Trevor's subdials are closer to the minute track than the Phong or your dial in question.very interesting!. First thing I'd do with the case is shave those notches off of those lugs! Bezel and the rest of the case looks decent.This is a 6238 case w/ a 6239 dial- genThis is a gold 6238- see the little indentitions in the case at the pushers- smallHere's another gen fr Interwatches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I have two of the A7750 dials but I'm not looking to sell them.You should be able to still find those watches somewhere. The Chinese have been building that model for 8-10 years now.One of mine I put in a DW 6239 case, the other is still in the rep case, but the movement was serviced by Ziggy a while back.I've found those A7750 movements to be a challengeOld Cartel versionCartel 6238 dial in DW 6239 case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Cartel 6238 dial in DW 6239 case Wow, this dial is pretty good. Are you sure it's A7750 that is under this dial? Yes, the A7750 used in those rep vintage chronographs is not too dependable. Perhaps, they are HZ mvts because I haven't had any problem with seagull copies (6497, 28xx or the Venus based ST19). In fact there are Seagull versions of 7750 and 7753 and these should be better provided that this company maintains the same QC standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Cartel 6238 dial in DW 6239 case M, I thought this was a Phong dial? Regarding the watch in the OP, my guess is that all the parts (other than the movement) are from Phong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Regarding the watch in the OP, my guess is that all the parts (other than the movement) are from Phong. All right. Then the movement must be Valjoux 72 since Phong's dials are all for V72 (or am I wrong with this?). M, I thought this was a Phong dial? Yes, it's too good to be a cartel dial, I thought. The subdial positions relative to the indices are almost perfect. Nice dial regardless of the maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Oops, my mistake- that is the Phong dial in the DW 6239 case. You can tell the Phong dial by looking at the 6s- they look like a G- drives me crazier!At any rate, I did put a 6238 cartel dial w/ an a7750 in a DW 6239 7750 case- here's the correct pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks for clarifying, M! Yes, it's too good to be a cartel dial, I thought. The subdial positions relative to the indices are almost perfect. Nice dial regardless of the maker. Looks can be deceiving! The Phong dial has more detail; unfortunately, those details are (as alligoat points out) mostly wrong. The overly-bolded "Rolex" and open 6s and 9s are some of the most obvious sins on this dial. If you're going to pay that much for a 6238 dial from Phong, you might as well go all the way and get one from Minh Quy. These dials --both the silver and the black-- look fantastic in the website photos. That said, I don't know of anyone who's actually ordered an MQ 6238 dial. Let's see if I can scrounge up the funds before the year is over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks for pointing out the mq site again M- that silver 6238 looks better than the Phong dial, but has the MILE printed on the telemeter track, Phong has BASE, and the gen dials have nothing!Looking at the OP's original dial, those 6's are jumping out at me now, so I'd agree that it is probably Phong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Thank you for the extra information for both of you! The bottom line is that the watch listed is not one of those off the shelf reps and it's most likely V72 one. Lhooq, yes we have talked about his and the problem with MQ dial is (1) too expensive and (2) the metal block on indices: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/162892-available-options-of-dials-for-v72/?hl=%2B6238#entry1269726 ... while we were talking about this another one came up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thanks for pointing out the mq site again M- that silver 6238 looks better than the Phong dial, but has the MILE printed on the telemeter track, Phong has BASE, and the gen dials have nothing! Looking at the OP's original dial, those 6's are jumping out at me now, so I'd agree that it is probably Phong. I actually didn't notice that difference until you pointed it out! However, I reckoned that the guys making these dials don't just pluck these words out of thin air, so I did a bit of searching. It looks like both variants are legitimate! From a VRM listing: From James Dowling's website, where Gentleman Jim calls the MILE tachymetre "unusual": Also note the "-T SWISS T-" on both dials, and the font used for "ROLEX", which are different from the ones you posted, M. Which dials are older, I wonder? I'll go through the tedious task of comparing serial numbers some other time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Interesting find M! The subtle variations of Rolex are always fun to find.Edit: Here's one I found w/ BASE/MILE/ this would be early since it's 'SWISS" and old style hands- pre 1963 is my guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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