Are We Losing Our Touch On Reality?

[Fireman_Fred]

Having read a number of forums on the difference between a genuine watch and a replica I started to wonder if we (the replica enthusiast) are starting to "lose the plot". I was reading a debate on Anti-reflective crytals on Omega watches and the alignment of the bezel not being as good as the genuine article. Let's just stop for a minute and think about what we're asking for - I have just bought a 5th gen. Omega PO and I paid the equivalent of 5% of the price of the genuine article. To me, it is as good as owning the original and a blind man would be pleased to spot the difference between it and a genuine PO ! A replica by it's definition is not a "perfect clone" (despite the name of a certain replica company !!), if it was perfect, it would no longer be a "replica". Let's not get too hung up about "minor" differences and imperfections, after all, for the money, these watches are all masterpieces and I applaude the superb workmanship and engineering of the peolple who strive to create the perfect "replica" for us hard to please enthusiasts.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Fireman_Fred

[slay]

I always wonder if ppl here are as anal about their girls as they are about their watches

[Fireman_Fred]

Anal....girlfiends.... perhaps we shouldn't go there !!!!!

[Watchmeister]

I say no. They are reps. But wouldn't we love it if all of our reps were in fact "clones". After all, half the fun of collecting reps is getting the best one possible within your budget and, if so inclined, modding them further to achieve the ultimate replica also known as a clone.

And as for anal girlfriends, if so inclined, I suspect you wouldn't mind a clone either.

[morgan]

I think it's a matter of getting it right within reason. We know the movement may not be the same quality but how close can we get and keep the cost the same? How much will it cost to add AR and are we willing to pay for it? Most would pay if it was kept within reason so we would like to have that option because we want to see the face w/o having to turn it different ways to get rid of the reflection. Do correct length hands cost more than incorrect hands? No. Does it cost more to spell a word correctly? Absolutely not. I don't think it's unreasonable to want fewer minor imperfections when it really doesn't require much cost or effort on the part of the people producing the watches.

[Jetsons]

I enjoy the heck out my reps. However, one should look at the actual prices the gen can be purchased for & not so much their MSRP. For example, a minty PO shows up on TZ regularly for around $1.7K with all the factory goodies. If one were to mod a rep PO with gen parts and service the movement (we can't leave anything alone around here), the net cost differential becomes considerably closer. The old model gen Seamaster auto (used) is around $1K and which makes for an even more interesting comparison.

We have an anal crowd around here. That's the reason rep manufaturers are up the a 6th try on the 45mm PO, and counting.

[jonthebhoy]

Some people are, some aren't.

JTB

[ubiquitous]

Clones?

I think these might qualify? Maybe?

[slay]

I say no. They are reps. But wouldn't we love it if all of our reps were in fact "clones". After all, half the fun of collecting reps is getting the best one possible within your budget and, if so inclined, modding them further to achieve the ultimate replica also known as a clone.

And as for anal girlfriends, if so inclined, I suspect you wouldn't mind a clone either.

Not Anal Girlfriends Anal ABOUT girlfriends

edit: is that white one done already ubi???!

[coolfire]

Clones?

I think these might qualify? Maybe?

You just had to do that, dude!!

[Goofy]

Not Anal Girlfriends Anal ABOUT girlfriends

Girlfriends! If my wife hears about any girlfriend, I'll need a clone.....

Edited December 8, 2006 by Goofy

[eddhead]

Clones?

I think these might qualify? Maybe?

That's not even fair

[ubiquitous]

*runs and hides*

[crystalcranium]

Most of the veteran buyers here know what to expect. All reps have flaws, buy one with flaws you can live with. That statement covers the full spread of deviations from perfect and all expectations.

I am willing to buy beautiful, and elegant but not perfect but for a tool watch, I want as close as possible to the genuine.

[Fireman_Fred]

Hear Hear !!

[Devedander]

I don't think it's appropriate to ask about whether I get anal with my girlfriend or not... what we do behind closed doors is no ones business but ours...

[poopypants]

I see phrases like "close reproduction" and "exact duplicate" below... That is what I look for in this hobby!

Why not not be critical of the small things... If they are small, they are easy to fix!

Also, If a manufacturer has the ability, why not shoot for perfection?!?!

Equals more money in their pockets! At least from a forum like this!!!

EDIT: As for anal... Who is down for RWG Havasu trip for Memorial Weekend?!?!

Random, I know!

****Definitions of "replica" on the Web:

1 a close reproduction of the original

2 An exact duplicate of the original, using the same materials and manufacturing techniques as were used to produce the original article.

3 A copy of the original, a facsimile.

4 A realistic and relatively faithful copy of a genuine original coin, usually produced for collectors, educational use, or other legitimate purposes, and usually differentiated in some way from a forgery intended for fraudulent use.

5 A copy of a numismatic item intended purely for collectors. Unlike counterfeit, no attempt is made to disguise such items as real. Often, replicas are copies of rare coins with the word copy or a similar marking to ensure it is not mistaken for the real thing.

6 Any item that is a copy of an original item is a replica of that item.

7 copy that is not the original; something that has been copied

Edited December 8, 2006 by poopypants

[Devedander]

I don't think value or cost of the gen has anything to do with what is reasonable to ask for in a rep...

For instance the argument that the rep costs 10% of what a gen does but is 95% accurate doesn't make any difference to me...

What does make a difference is how hard that extra step is to make.

For instance getting real meteorite for a rep dial is not something I consider reasonable to aske for.

Changing font spacing or size is.

Why? Because of the level of control one has to have over the detail vs how much level of control they have demostrated already having/what is reasonable to expect someone to be in control of.

Things that I know they can do are things consider reasonable to ask:

Spacing font properly, making lines proper thinckness and color, putting AR on a crystal and lume quality

These things can be done. I know either from basic understanding of how the machinery used to accomplish these things works, or from imperical evidence:

I know a printing machine that makes dials can be programed to print to a very precise tolerance.

I know that when you design the lines or pictures on a dial, you have full control to a very high level of what the result is.

I know that there are machines out there that can, for a reasonable price, add AR coating to the crystals already in use.

I know superlume is available and can be applied to the situations in which it's desired.

These things are all possible and the fact that they can produce what they can tells me that there is little or not reason that they could not produce what I want.

Stating that a rep only costs 10% of a gen is not a reason problems should not be fixed. It's like "becuase there is no law against it" is not a legitimate answer to the question "why are you balancing a chicken on your head?".

[Tjabo]

I guess the reason I think it is reasonable to expect a high level of reproduction quality is that these things aren't cheap! Sure, they are cheap compared to the genuines, but those are ridiculously expensive. A replica (COPY of the original, no development cost) with a movement that is almost free in China, and made of relatively inexpensive materials in factories with almost no overhead should be darn inexpensive!

The other comparison that I think is valid is a comparison to other decent quality watches that aren't replicas. A couple of those I've seen are VERY high in quality, and the cost is less than our reps. A friend of mine was wearing a Citizen recently when I had on my rep, and we ended up trading watches for inspection. They were very comparable, other than the fact that mine had a significant flaw on the dial, and was on it's way to non-functionality. His, on the other hand, works flawlessly, and cost less. . .

In short, I think we are entirely justified to expect good quality in both the reproduction, and in the workings, workmanship, and materials.

[Devedander]

Here's the other thing... I think of the 90% we save on the price of a gen, a good 70% of that is overhead:

Profit, advetising, legal fees, R&D etc

I honestly believe the watches you buy at the ADs actually cost about 20-30% of their retail price to make.

Now take out the factors the real companies have to deal with (like actually paying employees decent wages, legal fees, health benefits, advertising, R&D etc etc) which are things the rep community doesn't have to deal with, factor in that the bulk factor is not nearly as big a player in this market as in the legit market (because the bulk is already taken care of by the legit businesses, most of the parts in our reps are probably the third shift stuff, the things the factories crank out while they should be closed and sell out the back door for cheap) and the fact that we use cheaper versions of the movements than gens in many cases and I think it's not at all unreasonable to think that $200-800 would get you pretty much a 1:1 copy of what the gens have...

And I am talking 1:1 in everything but the movement... not just the 95% we have now...

Edited December 8, 2006 by Devedander