are case clamps sizes universal in submariner models from different manufacturers?

[Timelord]

This might sound as a silly question but I am curious if anyone that has dismantled an eta powered submariner from different sources ever noticed if  if the movement casing clamps would be the same size?  One's first intuitive guess would be yes, but I am not so confident?????

 

I have bought from many places including Silix  and have noticed that although the same models appear identical, there are some subtle differences between different manufacturers -especially with the internals.  For example I found out the hard way with the dials  that some are 29mm and  others use 28.6mm from manufacturer to manufacturer.  That extra 0.4mm difference in circumference may not seem much but can make a big difference as to whether the movement will sit in the case properly and therefore not necessarily be  interchangeable from the same model of different manufacturers.  I  have a ceramic bezel case which will not accept a 29mm dial to work with an eta but will work with a 28.6mm dial.  It was considered as rep gospel that the ceramic cases house dials which are 29mm.  I have damaged more than one dial to find out where dial feet have also broken off while trying to case the watch.

 

One can buy a whole box of various sized clamps for only a few dollars but they can be a hit or a miss.  I have made case clamps from all sorts of material including old mainsprings and feeler gauges, but you can take almost half a day by  trial and error as to making sure they fit properly over a size 1 or 2 raffles movement ring.  Sometimes they do not seem to work properly at all. I had no luck making one or getting any for a SSD V2 Sea dweller as the original dial with case still sits on an angle under the rehaut.   I have one model that uses a 4.5mm x 2.5mm clamp, but am not sure if this would be universal for all submariners from different rep dealers???  Would appreciate feedback from anyone who has worked with different model?  Thanks!!!!

[automatico]

"are case clamps sizes universal in submariner models from different manufacturers?"

 

In my experience...no.

 

The length and width of the clamps depend on the movement type and outer diameter plus the inner diameter and case clamp groove depth of the case.

I still use clamps now and then from a long gone supply house, S. LaRose that were offered in assortments 20+ years ago.  If I can not find what is needed, I have to make them.  I also bought an assortment of 'ETA case clamps and screws' on eBay just to get the screws because they are hard to find.  The clamps are Ok but some of them are a tad too wide to fit into the clamp notches in an ETA 28xx but they are easy to narrow down.

Something else...I have found quite a few broken case clamps in watches, especially if the clamp has a bend in it or there is not much metal around the screw hole.

 

Case clamps and screws are an unavoidable hassle.

 

 

Slightly off subject...

Here is an example of something worse than the average case clamp hassle:

I have a 36mm 18k aftmkt DJ case with three main problems:

1...The dial window is too big for a standard DJ 28mm dial...it is almost 29mm.

2...The threaded case back opening in the case is smaller than a spacer needed to properly hold the movement/dial in place.

3...There is no case clamp groove or a pair of 'stands' in the case for case clamps and the case is probably too thin to cut a groove.  Modern genuine gold rolex cases have case clamp/screw 'stands' made in them at two locations but the cases are hogged out to remove as much gold as possible leaving the rest of the case pretty thin.  The 'stands' also center the movement in the case.

 

I bought a 'refinished' 30mm dial for a 41mm DJ that will work in the case along with an oversize date wheel overlay...both from eBay.

Now I have two choices:

1...Have gold case clamp stands laser welded inside the case...probably $150 or so with the chance of a mistake.  This might be the best option though.

2...Make a brass or aluminum spacer that will hold the movement/dial combo tight against the front of the case. 

 

This spacer will have to exert force only on the movement by fitting against the slight ledge on the OD of the movement with no actual force applied to the dial by the spacer...the movement supplies the pressure to hold the dial against the front of the case.  Since the case back gasket is an O ring type and the case back screws down against the case, I could make a spacer that holds the movement/dial against the front of the case and also serves as a dial mount...genuine 41mm DJ dial feet go into a metal spacer mounted around the outside diameter of the movement like the plastic spacer on an ETA 2834 day at 12 movement.  This would involve precise machine work on the spacer and maybe 2 or 3 tries to get it right.  It would also have to center the movement in the case somehow.

 

If I did this, the spacer will have to supply downward force on the movement/dial from the case back so it will need some sort of tension device...maybe a large diameter (lubricated?) O ring fitted into a groove in the spacer that compresses when the case back is screwed down or something similar.  When this method is used there also needs to be some way to prevent the movement from turning inside the case breaking the stem and scuffing the dial when the back is screwed down.  I have some 3mm thick dive watch case back O rings in an assortment that may work (never saw a watch that used them this thick).  Some watches use a spacer with a leaf spring similar to a bezel spring that rubs against the case back to supply downward pressure but a spring might dig into the soft 18k case back.

Having clamp stands welded into the case might be the best bet but it will still need a spacer of some sort to center the movement in the case or make the stands do it.  It came with a day-date dial on an ETA 2834 with an oversize dial and plastic spacer...a first class case with a third class movement mounting system.

[alligoat]

Buy an assortment for $10 and you'll be fine!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Securing-Screws-Washers-Watch-Movement-Repair-Adapter-For-ETA-2836-2834-2846/253524965623?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52885%26meid%3Dd75ab7bc5eda4a2d8e9d5a483459a7d8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D152962498055%26itm%3D253524965623&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[Timelord]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, automatico said:

 

3...There is no case clamp groove or a pair of 'stands' in the case for case clamps and the case is probably too thin to cut a groove.  Modern genuine gold rolex cases have case clamp/screw 'stands' made in them at two locations but the cases are hogged out to remove as much gold as possible leaving the rest of the case pretty thin.  The 'stands' also center the movement in the case.

 

 

1...Have gold case clamp stands laser welded inside the case...probably $150 or so with the chance of a mistake.  This might be the best option though.

 

 

 

If you are going to go down that path, then if there is room there for clamp stands, I would just have 2 long narrow tabs just tacked to the internal case wall to substitute as a protruding clamp groove.  This would minimize the error margins of getting the stands exactly in the right place and have more latitude for a case clamp to be juggled into place under the tabs . Case clamps that come with eta movements are short enough to allow for this and can be filed to size.  Then there is the stem that would hold it in place. 

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, automatico said:

 

I have a 36mm 18k aftmkt DJ case with three main problems:

 

Not a Star Supply case? 

What manufacturer would go to the trouble of making such an expensive watch case and no provisions for it to be practical,, unless it was made for a quartz movement.  

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Timelord

[Timelord]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 3:31 AM, alligoat said:

Buy an assortment for $10 and you'll be fine!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Securing-Screws-Washers-Watch-Movement-Repair-Adapter-For-ETA-2836-2834-2846/253524965623?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52885%26meid%3Dd75ab7bc5eda4a2d8e9d5a483459a7d8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D152962498055%26itm%3D253524965623&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Thanks!!! I already have a whole box, but none of these assortments seem to do the job and the amount of fiddling with them, I find it more feasible to make them from scratch from a thin piece of metal  and slowly accommodate them for what I need them for.