5512 Crystal retainer loose

[dman535]

Ever since I replaced the movement in my Cartel 5512 with a Miyota 8215 the watch has been bullet proof (still hate the crappy lume). I managed to peel off the whole bezel/retainer assembly this week and discovered the crystal retainer is loose. The last crystal I installed was a GS PA-462-19H @ 30.28mm

 

Debating what course of action to take here. Should I look for a larger crystal? Add glue to the retainer to increase its bit on the existing crystal? Is there a rep crystal retainer/bezel I should be looking to invest in? 

 

Looking for thoughts and ideas.

thanks

D.-

 

Here is a pic.

[e30m3]

Avoid glue if you can - Try messaging "nostalgia-2000" on the bay. He used to sell the complete assembly for $100 or so. No guarantee that'll work, of course...

You may have to polish but it gets you a more accurate bezel, too. 

 

Alternatively, I had luck with the GS PA462-20A (which is also a killer superdome). That should be just a tad wider if I recall. Maybe better to start by dropping $10 vs $100 after all...

 

[Nanuq]

While you have it apart to this point, try mixing up some tea or cappuccino and paint a little on the hands lume. It tends to migrate to the edges and darkens them a bit, you might like the result.

[automatico]

"Avoid glue if you can."

"While you have it apart to this point, try mixing up some tea or cappuccino and paint a little on the hands lume.  It tends to migrate to the edges and darkens them a bit, you might like the result."

 

Agree 100%.

Glue is verboten in this instance.

I used super strong tea to darken the lume on my never ending '1655' project hands.  It took a few hours.

 

I have said this 100 times before.

Here is 101...

 

If anyone is going to work on watches, they need a precision digital caliper (my apology if you already have one).

Why?

1...Because a few hundredths of a mm is a big difference in watch work.

2...Replica watches can be waaay out of spec, ranging from no spec junk to oem precision.  You have to be able to tell the difference.

 

First, measure the OD of the case neck (where the crystal mounts).  It should be oem spec 28.2mm.  Write it down.   

Next, mount the crystal on the case neck and measure the OD of the crystal.  Write it down.  Measuring a crystal loose (unmounted) is usually hit or miss.  

Exception...when the crystal is loose on the case neck you have to do the best you can..

Last, measure the ID of the crystal retaining ring.  It should be oem spec 30.2mm.  Write it down.

When measuring ID/OD of parts like this, measure the sizes in 2 or 3 different spots around them.   

 

The crystal should be a 'light snug' fit over the case neck.  Too loose and the bezel may not seal it to the case.  Too tight and the crystal may crack. 

The bezel ID needs to be about .1mm  (one tenth of a millimeter) smaller than the crystal OD...a hair smaller is usually Ok depending on the of the crystal age and material.  Some are flexible and some are brittle.

If the crystal retaining bezel can be seated over the crystal by hand, it is probably too loose.

If the bezel is hard to press all the way down, it is probably too tight.

 

You need a pretty good bezel/crystal press, one that has press cups stiff enough so they do not flex and allow the cup to get out of level when pressing bezels etc.  Aluminum cups work better than plastic but it also depends on how they are mounted to the press.  This is another subject.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

[dman535]

The measurements I got:

Case 27.8mm

Retainer 30mm

Crystal on case 30 mm

 

Almost seems like the crystal is undersized for its spec or 30.28, unless that is a product of the case neck being a little undersized.

[dman535]

I had a 462-20A in my pile of parts, the retainer was to tight and the crystal too loose around the watch. PA 462-19H seems to be the right size, just needs a little more tension. I ordered a new one to see if it fits any better. Might try putting a bead of epoxy on the outside near the base and letting it dry. Might provide enough material ti tighten things up a bit.

[e30m3]

I hesitate to type this truth but I uh... sanded... the outer diameter to make it fit my retainer. (Don’t panic @automatico  - I came up with a precise way of doing so (which I’ll admit now slips my mind). 
 

but anyway, I figured since your ring was wider the 20 might just be a fit.

 

Mm... Sternkreuz?

[automatico]

"Almost seems like the crystal is undersized for its spec or 30.28, unless that is a product of the case neck being a little undersized."

 

I will measure a case and bezel tomorrow to make sure I had the correct sizes.  I used the figures from the sticky 'Building an MBW Sub...'   

 

3-21-21

Checked the measurements and afaik they are right.

 

 

"I hesitate to type this truth but I uh... sanded... the outer diameter to make it fit my retainer. (Don’t panic @automatico "

 

Ha!  I've done that too!  It used to be a trade secret.

I pushed the crystal on a spare case and let it spin in a lathe using 1200 sandpaper wrapped around a popsicle stick, then polished it with Wenol or Simichrome polish.

You have to use Swiss Made popsicle sticks.

[dman535]

Got a new PA462-19H in today and it fit much tighter on the watch than the previous one did. The retainer needed a press to install it all the way. Best I can guess is that the previous crystal was damaged in some way, slight crack? 
Watch is back together and working fine.