Cleaning and oiling the capstone on shock system?

[Timelord]

Do any of you that service your own movements also clean both pivot holes of where the balance staff sits in with peg wood after rinse?   
 

I have never seen any servicing videos of when this section is done!  All  I have seen  is how the two stones are separated  and a drop of oil is placed  to cover  a concentric section of the flat part  of the jewel and then the two are joined together held by capillary  forces! 
 

is the balance staff end tips oiled with an oiler or does one  oil the pivot holes immediately after having oiled the midsection of the mating end stones?  
 

any thoughts on this?

thanks!

[automatico]

"Do any of you that service your own movements also clean both pivot holes of where the balance staff sits in with peg wood after rinse?"

 

I have also seen instructions that say to 'peg out' all hole jewels but I usually skip that part because I use an ultrasonic cleaning machine and have not had any trouble going this route.

 

I had three different master repair guys show me the ropes years ago and each one cleaned and oiled balance jewels on watches (with shock protection) basically the same way. 

Here are the basics:

1...Remove the cap/hole jewels.

2...If they are gummed up or stuck together, soak them in a solvent of some sort for a while until they come apart.  I use acetone because it is cheap.  'One Dip' will also work but it is expensive.  Btw, dry cleaning fluid (tetrachloroethylene) will also work, it is basically the same thing as 'One dip" used to be...if you can find it.

'Used to be' = the 'One Dip' formula has probably been changed because of the EPA.

3A...Put the jewels back in their shock settings and run them through the cleaning routine with the rest of the parts.

3B...Leave them out of the movement, put them in a small, fine wire mesh basket and clean them in a cleaning machine along with the other parts (cleaner and two rinses).

4...Let the jewels dry naturally or hot air dry them and inspect the cap jewel for chips or a glaze from oil etc.  Check the hole jewel for cracks, gummy deposits etc.

5...Rub the flat side of the cap jewel over a clean business card etc. to remove any film left by the cleaner/rinse.  Be careful not to dig into the card and create dust that may get on the jewel surface. 

Tip:  Look for an 'oil dot' in the center of the jewel after cleaning and rub it away.  If there is a dot that will not go away, run a screwdriver across it and see if it is a rough spot caused by a broken staff, grit, or something.  If it will not go away, it may cause excess friction and foul up the running rate when the balance staff is running against the spot. 

The fix = another cap jewel.

Be very careful when handling the cap jewel with tweezers because the jewel can shoot out of the tweezers never to be seen again.  Practice it over and over (with A 21J jewels etc.) until you 'get the knack of it'.

6...Oil 50% to 60% (some say up to 70%) of the cap jewel surface, making sure you are oiling the flat side.  Try to get a more or less rounded spot of oil on the cap jewel.

7...Set the hole jewel down on top of the cap jewel.  If you get it off to one side and smear the oil, clean them both in acetone etc. and oil the cap jewel again.   Setting the hole jewel down over the cap jewel is not as easy as it sounds by a long shot.

 

You can find a lot of discussions about oiling balance jewels on the WUS Watchmaking section although it is basically 'Pros' vs 'Hobby Guys' and the 'Pros' sometimes add a lot of 'prose' to impress the troops.  There are also never ending discussions about the 'old way' as I described vs the 'new way' to oil cap jewels using Bergeon jewel treatments to hold the oil in one spot.  I am leaving that subject alone. 

 

"Are the balance staff end tips oiled with an oiler or does one oil the pivot holes immediately after having oiled the midsection of the mating end stones?"  

   

No need to oil the hole jewel, capillary action will do it.  If you also oil the hole jewel it may 'flood' the jewels and cause the oil to travel away from the jewels.

I have a tiny capillary oiler that will pass through some hole jewels but it is hit or miss on getting the oil to flow properly.  

[freddy333]

16 hours ago, Timelord said:

Do any of you that service your own movements also clean both pivot holes of where the balance staff sits in with peg wood after rinse?
I have never seen any servicing videos of when this section is done!  All  I have seen  is how the two stones are separated  and a drop of oil is placed  to cover  a concentric section of the flat part  of the jewel and then the two are joined together held by capillary  forces! 
is the balance staff end tips oiled with an oiler or does one  oil the pivot holes immediately after having oiled the midsection of the mating end stones?  
any thoughts on this?

thanks!

 

I always peg-out ALL holes/jewels BEFORE cleaning. Also, I likewise generally polish pinions BEFORE cleaning. That way, the ultrasonic agents have an easier time removing debris since most of it is surface contaminants & not burnished into the metal by friction, as in the case of holes/jewels.

I generally do not directly oil the balance staff pinions, since they are lubricated (by the oil within the end stones) once fitted back onto the movement.

Keep in mind that if you ask 10 watchmakers their procedures, you are likely to get at least 6 variations back. Over time, most tend to learn what works best for their needs & level of perfectionism.

[Timelord]

17 hours ago, automatico said:

"Do any of you that service your own movements also clean both pivot holes of where the balance staff sits in with peg wood after rinse?"

 

I have also seen instructions that say to 'peg out' all hole jewels but I usually skip that part because I use an ultrasonic cleaning machine and have not had any trouble going this route.

 

I

 

6 hours ago, freddy333 said:

 

 

I generally do not directly oil the balance staff pinions, since they are lubricated (by the oil within the end stones) once fitted back onto the movement.

Keep in mind that if you ask 10 watchmakers their procedures, you are likely to get at least 6 variations back. Over time, most tend to learn what works best for their needs & level of perfectionism.

guys thanks for your input!

 

I always wondered why the  only oil applied when oiling this setup was just that concentric drop sandwiched  between the two mating jewels held by capillary action and nothing underneath where the tip of the balance staff rotates on the outside of bottom jewel   This was always a mystery to me!

[automatico]

"Keep in mind that if you ask 10 watchmakers their procedures, you are likely to get at least 6 variations back. Over time, most tend to learn what works best for their needs & level of perfectionism."

 

True!

I learned from the best around where I live and each one had different methods on some procedures. 

The pocket watch guys I knew always pegged jewel holes because:

1...They tend to gum up with dried out/dirty oil and since the movements are 'air cooled' they collect dust, lint, and small insects.

2...The jewel holes are usually big enough to get a sliver of peg wood in and out.

 

I am just a 'hobby watch botcher' and can legally take shortcuts.  Ha!

[horologist]

This is an interesting topic which is rarely discussed .  The  mechanism of how the lubrication works  between the two parts of the cap jewel has never really been explained on any of the sources I know,  so kudos for bringing it up!  

 

You have a brass spring on the top  and another on the bottom ( either an incabloc, novodiac or any other spring used by various manufacturers) which presses down on the 2 joining jewels which are separated just by a drop of oil between them (  oil covers half the circular area of the jewel).   Th e two jewels are in a metal capsule  pressed by the spring which simultaneously presses onto the outside on  the tip of the balance staff on both  ends of the balance staff.   The theory to my understanding is that upon any shock which the mechanism might endure, is offset by  the spring acting  like a bouncing action on both ends of the balance staff - theoretically preventing  damage!

 

The oil is between the two jewels somehow is meant to migrate below  to the top of the balance staff  ( and equally from the other end to the bottom)  is how I always understood it.  I have seen people use automatic oilers by just oiling the capstone from the bottom opening of the metal capsule.  I don't see how this is superior to separating the two jewels and properly cleaning and adding the right amount of oil between them! 

 

Again, I am self taught tinkerer having learnt through the school of hard knocks and through the pocket from damage caused from not having known what I did prior to learning. what not to do!!! 

[freddy333]

On 5/22/2023 at 7:30 AM, Timelord said:

I always wondered why the  only oil applied when oiling this setup was just that concentric drop sandwiched  between the two mating jewels held by capillary action and nothing underneath where the tip of the balance staff rotates on the outside of bottom jewel   This was always a mystery to me!

 

Oil pooled on the surface of the backing jewel will migrate below & around the pinion, thus lubricating it.