Running Sec's, Movements, And Daytona's Oh My...

[smyrnasurfin]

Ubiquitous - In reading your posts you really seem to like the Daytona's. It is one of the two watches (Bond Omega the other) as my next watch. After reading and reading I am still unsure what's better Running @ 6 or 9. Do I want 28.8 eta or the new 28 Asian or the old beat Asian?

I was just going to PM Ubiquitous with this but decided hey, let me get everyone (who wants to reply) opinion.

Any help would be appreciated - David

[Steve G]

Right out of the box running sec's at nine usually with the newer 7750 (28,800) is best. I'd personally stay away from the Daytona's and running seconds at six, depiste the instinctive urge. Ubiquitous's Daytona is a modified one with a gen el primiero? (Am I right Randy?) And a very nice one at that.

[ubiquitous]

Ubiquitous - In reading your posts you really seem to like the Daytona's. It is one of the two watches (Bond Omega the other) as my next watch. After reading and reading I am still unsure what's better Running @ 6 or 9. Do I want 28.8 eta or the new 28 Asian or the old beat Asian?

I was just going to PM Ubiquitous with this but decided hey, let me get everyone (who wants to reply) opinion.

Any help would be appreciated - David

Hmmmm... Yeah, I suppose you could say that I like the Daytona a little

So, really, you have a couple of choices for a sapphire crystal (modern and neovintage) Daytona-

Running seconds at 6:00 (the modified 7750 with seconds displaced to the 6:00 subsidiary) for the 116520/116509/116518/116519 etc. These are a bit touchy- The modification to the base movement to shift subdial output around requires 11 extra gears and much more strain on the movement having to push those extra gears (specifically the extra load required for the constantly running seconds subdial). Some watches have lasted over a year, while other last a few days. It's a bit of a game of chance. Aside form the movement issues, the case is quite thick to accommodate the modified movement - Bezel is taller, rehaut is deeper, caseback is deeper, and the position of the crown sits too far towards the caseback etc. A genuine 116520 for example is quite thin in relation at 12.4mm; so, this is a giveaway as to being a replica to anyone that knows Daytonas.

For seconds at 9:00, these are the 16520/16523/16528 models that are replicating the function of the Zenith El Primero. No modification necessary for the watch's functions, as the running seconds should be at 9:00, however, the subdial placement on these is typically spread out too far from the trademark closely grouped positions of the El Primero's subdials. The cases on these are about the right size (diameter and thickness), though, again, the crown is positioned too far back towards the caseback. For reliability, this one is probably a safer bet.

Now, personally, I did opt to build my own Zenith Daytona as Steve mentioned as the options out there just didn't satisfy. This was the solution that provided accuracy, function and longevity. The final product ends up costing a significant amount, but in the end, the results are about as close to a genuine 16520 as one can achieve without actually buying a genuine. The movement is the same base movement as what the genuine uses; genuine dials fit, as do hands with slight modification... Crowns, tubes, bezels, bracelets, rotors, bridges... To the eye, this one can truly be made 1:1.

Anyways... Just my $0.02... Weigh your desire for a Daytona with the cost you are willing to pay. If you want a long term keeper that will last through the generations, there is only one way to go (in my opinion).

Hope this helps

R

[smyrnasurfin]

Hmmmm... Yeah, I suppose you could say that I like the Daytona a little

So, really, you have a couple of choices for a sapphire crystal (modern and neovintage) Daytona-

Running seconds at 6:00 (the modified 7750 with seconds displaced to the 6:00 subsidiary) for the 116520/116509/116518/116519 etc. These are a bit touchy- The modification to the base movement to shift subdial output around requires 11 extra gears and much more strain on the movement having to push those extra gears (specifically the extra load required for the constantly running seconds subdial). Some watches have lasted over a year, while other last a few days. It's a bit of a game of chance. Aside form the movement issues, the case is quite thick to accommodate the modified movement - Bezel is taller, rehaut is deeper, caseback is deeper, and the position of the crown sits too far towards the caseback etc. A genuine 116520 for example is quite thin in relation at 12.4mm; so, this is a giveaway as to being a replica to anyone that knows Daytonas.

For seconds at 9:00, these are the 16520/16523/16528 models that are replicating the function of the Zenith El Primero. No modification necessary for the watch's functions, as the running seconds should be at 9:00, however, the subdial placement on these is typically spread out too far from the trademark closely grouped positions of the El Primero's subdials. The cases on these are about the right size (diameter and thickness), though, again, the crown is positioned too far back towards the caseback. For reliability, this one is probably a safer bet.

Now, personally, I did opt to build my own Zenith Daytona as Steve mentioned as the options out there just didn't satisfy. This was the solution that provided accuracy, function and longevity. The final product ends up costing a significant amount, but in the end, the results are about as close to a genuine 16520 as one can achieve without actually buying a genuine. The movement is the same base movement as what the genuine uses; genuine dials fit, as do hands with slight modification... Crowns, tubes, bezels, bracelets, rotors, bridges... To the eye, this one can truly be made 1:1.

Anyways... Just my $0.02... Weigh your desire for a Daytona with the cost you are willing to pay. If you want a long term keeper that will last through the generations, there is only one way to go (in my opinion).

Hope this helps

R

It helps alot. While I will probably not go the route you went, I am going to go with the secs at 9. I have my eye on one by King that has the Black Face with Red. I really love the look of that watch and don't know why. Actually I do know why, I love the look of it

[Mickey Padge]

This is probably the most accurate pre 2000 seconds at 9 Daytona I can find here: http://www.wo-mart.com/product_info.php?cP...products_id=625

It has a Swiss 7750 and is expensive, you may be able to get it with an Asian 7750 for a lot less. Notice the thin hour markers, that is correct for the pre 2000 Daytonas. Also the subdials are correct, the 20/40/60 is at nine where it should be, although they are not spaced close together like the gen.

Cheers

[smyrnasurfin]

This is probably the most accurate pre 2000 seconds at 9 Daytona I can find here: http://www.wo-mart.com/product_info.php?cP...products_id=625

It has a Swiss 7750 and is expensive, you may be able to get it with an Asian 7750 for a lot less. Notice the thin hour markers, that is correct for the pre 2000 Daytonas. Also the subdials are correct, the 20/40/60 is at nine where it should be, although they are not spaced close together like the gen.

Cheers

OW! yeah I may not be quite there yet.

This is nice: http://www.wo-mart.com/product_info.php?cP...products_id=634

the one I like, although I am sure it is not very accurate: ROLEX DayTona 2004: ROASIA 7750 Movement / SAPPHIRE / STEEL / Waterproof 40m

What do you think?

[Mickey Padge]

The vintage one is very nice looking, but it will probably have the older 7750? I could not say for sure, but you would want the newer 7750 version. The other watch you posted should not have the running seconds at 9. The subdial for running seconds should be at the 6 position for that watch. So the subdial spacing is wrong and the seconds are running in the wrong place.

If you just like the look of the watch then buy it for sure, but I would find the errors a dead give away.

Cheers

[r11co]

Just chucking my 2p's worth in here, but IMO the models without the broad silver subdial rings look better with the seconds@9 movement as it draws less attention to the mis-spacing. They are pretty tricky to find now though.

[jackxv6]

Buy the one you like, at the price you can pay and you'll enjoy it. It will always be a non original one, even it's the most beautiful Frankenstein with the best parts around build by the best mecanics around.

No disrespect to all the high quality owners and builders around here, i really enjoy seeing your watches and understand the outstanding quality of some of those watches.

Spent a lot of money? > Buy original at dealer.

Spent not to much ? > Make friends around here and you'll be guided what to look for

Spent a little but to much > Buy at an unknown Asian website and be disappointed or ripped.

Bought a ETA 7750@6 myself and love the watch, paid €400 / $ 520.

Jack

[smyrnasurfin]

The vintage one is very nice looking, but it will probably have the older 7750? I could not say for sure, but you would want the newer 7750 version. The other watch you posted should not have the running seconds at 9. The subdial for running seconds should be at the 6 position for that watch. So the subdial spacing is wrong and the seconds are running in the wrong place.

If you just like the look of the watch then buy it for sure, but I would find the errors a dead give away.

Cheers

So on the dial it has the secs at 9, but it actually runs at 6?

King had this listed under the ASSIAN 7750 AT 9'CLOCK SECOND (maybe the two ss's in Asian is the give-away.

http://www.cclv.net/0.htm

Quoted $225 a couple weeks ago.

[Mickey Padge]

The seconds are running at 9, but they should be running at six on the genuine watch.

[smyrnasurfin]

The seconds are running at 9, but they should be running at six on the genuine watch.

I guess I am confused pre-2000 ran at 9 correct? I guess b/c this is a 2004 it should be running at 6 but isn't, right?

[smyrnasurfin]

Just chucking my 2p's worth in here, but IMO the models without the broad silver subdial rings look better with the seconds@9 movement as it draws less attention to the mis-spacing. They are pretty tricky to find now though.

Gotta, These Daytona's appear to be a bear to get semi-accurate for around $200.

Unlike the Noobmariner or the Ultimate PO's.

[Mickey Padge]

I guess I am confused pre-2000 ran at 9 correct? I guess b/c this is a 2004 it should be running at 6 but isn't, right?

That's it in a nutshell

[By-Tor]

Once again, here's THE link that everyone should always post (when responding to noobs' queries about Daytona). Why bother explaining it again and again... when it has already been explained (by the Man himself)?

http://www.rwg.cc/members/Movement-review-...at-6-t1414.html

[ubiquitous]

Spent a lot of money? > Buy original at dealer.

For what one genuine 16520 Daytona would cost ($9k to $12k for a standard late model, and only available now on the secondary market), I can build 3 frankens with the same movements, genuine dials, hands, crowns, tubes, bezels, etc. My white dial Daytona is even complete with a genuine case.

In the end... It's still not a genuine. No box and papers, but no ridiculous mark up either and essentially the same watch on my wrist, and with the option to go with a different dial color the next day Since I'm not interested in selling, the 'genuine' aspect doesn't mean much... At least to me.

[RWG Technical]

Once again, here's THE link that everyone should always post (when responding to noobs' queries about Daytona). Why bother explaining it again and again... when it has already been explained (by the Man himself)?

http://www.rwg.cc/members/Movement-review-...at-6-t1414.html

I forgot just how long and detailed this review was...it sure covers it all...there is little else that can be said.

RG

[smyrnasurfin]

Once again, here's THE link that everyone should always post (when responding to noobs' queries about Daytona). Why bother explaining it again and again... when it has already been explained (by the Man himself)?

http://www.rwg.cc/members/Movement-review-...at-6-t1414.html

I have read all your Omega reviews and for the life of me don't know why I never read your movement reviews. Read, read, and more reading. Best way to learn.

Thanks By-Tor

[By-Tor]

I have read all your Omega reviews and for the life of me don't know why I never read your movement reviews.

Maybe because I have never written a movement review? I have no skills to do those... I'm just a hobbyist. Ziggy takes care of all the complicated stuff.

[smyrnasurfin]

Maybe because I have never written a movement review? I have no skills to do those... I'm just a hobbyist. The Zigmeister takes care of all the complicated stuff.

I am BAD at fully reading. Because you posted the link I never bothered to look at the author.

My humble apologizes to The Zigmeisterzumba. You are the movement man!

David

[ubiquitous]

I am BAD at fully reading. Because you posted the link I never bothered to look at the author.

My humble apologizes to ziggyzumba. You are the movement man!

Indeed, Ziggy is. He is the only one I trust with servicing/overhauling my movements (and believe me, he can do it all)...

[manuel]

I like daytonas at 9.

I love the El Primero movement.

Yesterday I was lucky to see a Zenith El Primero movement from a customer of my watchmaster..

Its by far one of the most beautiful automatic movements on earth.