who Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 To all Vintage lover, People always saying how rare is the Mbw vintage and how good they are for modification since Mbw is 1:1 which allow you to put genuine parts.....etc So what about some other area like: Movement, Dial, Font, Hands, Materials. How good is a Mbw vintage vs a "regular" vintage in those area? For the members who know Vintage so much, can you do a Out of The Box (OTB) comparison between a Mbw Vintage & a "regular" Vintage ? My main point is: Is it worth to pay the extra $$ for a Mbw Vintage if I don't plan or have no knowledge to do any modification? By "regular" I mean those you can buy from one of our popular dealers like Josh, Andrew ....... etc Ideal Model Sample: Seadweller 1665 (red, double-red or white) or Sub 1680 (red or white) thank you for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchDude Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 If you have no intention to mod, go for another dealer. The MBW isn't worth the extra (DOUBLE) if you don't plan to work on it. $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Agreed. But I would never buy a vintage Rolex rep without the intention of modifying it. And its not because it is or isn't noticeable. A few choice items like a proper crystal,bezel insert or genuine crown and tube can give the watch a whole different look or feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Indeed... If you're going to leave the watch 'stock', then there is no need to buy an MBW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'd recommend that you buy the MBW. Think of the additional cost as an insurance policy, against the chance that you might want to do some modifications in the future. Plus, the MBW will likely retain its value better, should you decide to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Avitt brings up a good point. They have historically ad substantially better resale value. And folks will pay a premium for properly modded ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodo Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 To get a good vintage Rep Sub/SD you need: An MBW as basis. From that you can take the case and the slow beat movement. Additionally: Crystal: Tropic 127 / 39 or 39 Superdome Bracelet: hollow mid link old style with old style divers extension, better folded or rivited Note on rivitted bracelets: Genuines have holes in each pin and the links are folded, Aftermarket have closed pins and massive side links or even massive mid links either. Gen spring bars (Drilling and notching/smoothing is neccesary for it) 1680 end links can be reworked for gen spring bars, SD need gen end links. Genuine NOS crown (Vintage crowns are smaller than actual crowns, Rep crowns are all oversized) Gen or aftermarket tube Gen or Aftermarket bezel insert with slim font and correct vintage pearl without metal rim Date wheel questions: 1: Serviced Rolex 1570 get a white date wheel with round 3s and open 6/9 - Don´t buy WHITE date wheels with flat top 3s, they don´t exist from Rolex! 2. Gen Rolex 1570 have a SILVER date wheel with flat top 3s and open 6/9 except 29 Note!!! All ETA turn the date clockwise while a Rolex 1570 turns counterclockwise. Conclusion: You will never - NEVER - never get an expert proof fake vintage rolex without a movement swap! If you check the date direction you don´t need to open the watch. If it´s ETA it´s quickset and turns clockwise. Don´t forget that along with your invest! And you need time and money, lots of it. So if you don´t want to do the mod completely, don´t buy a vintage at all. It´s visible for those who know. And those few are the ones you do it for. If you just want some kinda vintage watch keep it simple and cheap. Buy and waer it as a fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Is it worth to pay the extra $$ for a Mbw Vintage if I don't plan or have no knowledge to do any modification? No. Or rather not unless you're worried about resale value. I was going to write loads of stuff about mods, but then I realised that's not at all your question so I deleted it. If you're honestly never going to consider mods, don't bother with an MBW unless it's something you plan on selling later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falco Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 If you don't plan to mod your vintage extensively I don't think buying a MBW is worth it. If you don't want to spend 450$ on an MBW, don't plan to re-sell it and are happy with not getting it 99.9% correct you can go for the Trustys 1:1 top grade collection like the 1680. Good stuff: takes genuine crystals 127 19 (or aftermarkets like Clarks), tube, crown, bezel (aftermarket crystal retaining ring can be fitted to get rid of the spring bezel). Bad stuff: spring in bezel, no slot for dial and also gen dials are too smal to fit. So in my view, if you want a decent cheap replica for 188$, don't mind painting the dial yourself and maybe fit a better crystal and crown/tube and in total don't want to spend more than 350$ in total on a rep you can get something like this: Willing to spend more than 1000$ (or 2000$ with a gen movement) you can get something like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 I have a'regular' DRSD and a MBW DRSD so I feel decently qualified to give a straight comparison. The biggest difference is one that cannot be described easily and that is the 'feel' of the watch. I worked in a vintage watch dealer in London and was very used to handling all the famous vintage rollies, Subs, SD's, Princes, Bubblebacks etc. When I got my 'regular' DRSD I did not know the differences from the gen (I do now!) but the one thing that stuck out for me was that it felt fake. I'm sorry to be vague but that's the way it is, it's lots of little details, quality of steel, lubrication, polishing, how the clasp works etc etc, when I bought my MBW it 'felt' alot closer to the genuine article - I know the details that are off and I'm going to have it fully modded and I appreciate that you might not want to bother with that but if the 'feel' is important to you then I would say get the MBW. Remember the old saying 'Buy cheap and you buy twice'. This is absolutely true in my case but then I am a bit of a stickler for detail so it really depends on what type of person you are, if you know that small details will irritate you and put you off from wearing the thing then MBW it is. If you don't really care about stuff like that and just want something to look the part then definitely go for the regular and buy one with an asian movement to save money because it will do exactly what you want, it will look the part but nothing more. I hope this makes sense and is of some use to you. All the best with your watch buying future. Dieselpower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rag9fx Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 I would say that both have their merits. The case on my mbw is exeptional in comparsion to my non-mbw vintages ... but imho i everything else on the stock mbw has to go... but half the fun of working and owning an mbw is hunting down the parts ( in my-case when i was parts hunting i sometimes deluded myself that i owned a gen) and therefore spent say another $400 dolars or so on a $400 dolar watch . so i would say it can get expsensive on modding these... or any watch i suppose . but as ubi has said b4 ... when they are done... they are done.. on the other hand i have a two non-mbw vintages... i have a 1680 that is done up to decent spec (all aftermarket parts) ( unfortunately with out a retaining ring) but it dosn't look half bad next to the mbw 1680 in the watch box ... ) and i have 5517 that i am completely reworking ... and in its mock up stage it looks bloody amazing ( but then again a lot of money... more then in my mbw project.... had gone into parts- that being said the 5517 is a rarer watch and the parts demand a premium) anyway ... which every you choose ... best of luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 I would say go for the MBW specially if you're considering the 1665. It's better to have one fantastic rep that you'll wear and enjoy over the long term than a few that might eventually become watch box queens. Comparison shots of the components used in the MBW and CN 1665 might shed some light on the subject. These photos are compliments of RWG1 old timer and super Franken builder Saabin....It would be fantastic to see him here. Dial print quality. Super thick case and back of the MBW 1665: Bezel assembly of the MBW same as the gen as is the crystal installation: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) I would say go for the MBW specially if you're considering the 1665. It's better to have one fantastic rep that you'll wear and enjoy over the long term than a few that might eventually become watch box queens. Comparison shots of the components used in the MBW and CN 1665 might shed some light on the subject. These photos are compliments of RWG1 old timer and super Franken builder Saabin....It would be fantastic to see him here. Dial print quality. In reference to the dial, which one is more accurate in terms of the 12 o'clock marker? The one on the right is closer to the Rolex insignia whereas, the one on the left has a larger gap between them. Also, it seems the right one has a thicker font. Thanks. Edited February 23, 2007 by mumum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 In reference to the dial, which one is more accurate in terms of the 12 o'clock marker? The one on the right is closer to the Rolex insignia whereas, the one on the left has a larger gap between them. Also, it seems the right one has a thicker font. Thanks. Rather than post lots and lots of pictures, check this page out: http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/dr_dials.htm Check out the sheer variation in colour: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 In reference to the dial, which one is more accurate in terms of the 12 o'clock marker? The one on the right is closer to the Rolex insignia whereas, the one on the left has a larger gap between them. Also, it seems the right one has a thicker font. Thanks. The MBW by a long shot. Gen rr for comparison: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) CRAP!! It seems my MBW DRSD that I got from Pauluk , over at TRC, has the CN 1665 dial and not the MBW dial that it should have (I was not aware of this until now, but had a nagging feeling). My dial definately is the one on the left with a larger space between the 12 o'clock marker and coronet. And the markers are thin and drker yellow as the left picture . Unless I am mistaken, I was not aware of more than one version of the MBW 1665 vintage dial. I guess I need to pm Pauluk and ask that, and now where am I going to get a MBW dial? Edited February 23, 2007 by mumum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 I guess I need to pm Pauluk and ask that, and now where am I going to get a MBW dial? You should count yourself lucky that someone may have an original MBW dial that they've replaced with a gen or redial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 You should count yourself lucky that someone may have an original MBW dial that they've replaced with a gen or redial. Pugs, you or anyone have a an origional MBW DSRD dial not being used? I would be very interested/appreciative obviously. Please pm me. 'sigh' Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Pugs, you or anyone have a an origional MBW DSRD dial not being used? I would be very interested/appreciative obviously. Please pm me. 'sigh' Thanks. You should take it as an opportunity to get the more accurate white dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 You should take it as an opportunity to get the more accurate white dial. Darn good advice, Pug! I've had both and the white dial the more accurate with better print and last but not least, easier to wear. The gen rr is one rare bird and usually only found safely slumbering in a bomb proof safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 1: Serviced Rolex 1570 get a white date wheel with round 3s and open 6/9 - Don´t buy WHITE date wheels with flat top 3s, they don´t exist from Rolex! Bodo obviously has quite a lot to learn to learn still. Rolex makes a factory white replacement with flat 3's: The above are not aftermarket; they are genuine. Do you really think that a collector with an original DRSD MKII dial, matching hands and nearly NOS condition watch would accept an aftermarket part in his/her piece AND post photos of it for other collectors and experts to pick it apart? I don't think so... 2. Gen Rolex 1570 have a SILVER date wheel with flat top 3s and open 6/9 except 29 Actually, '29' has an open 9; 26 has a closed 6. See for yourself: And Bodo, for the record- Before the collector you are trying to fool even has the watch in hand to see what direction the date rotates, I am sure he will spot several other flaws that will identify the watch as non-genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 You should take it as an opportunity to get the more accurate white dial. I had not thought of that. I realised the more 'believability' of a white dial, but had not the funds for both reps. Now, I would definately be open to the white dial as well. Whatever I can get at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Thank You very much to everyone who replied to this thread. I'm overwhelming by all the response and information you guys provide, they are amazing and I'm sure they will help me and others people who decide to enter the avenue of vintage I will give a lots of thought about whether getting a Mbw or something like a Trusty 1:1 and do some "light mod" (suggested by Falco) according to my financial power (a "finish" project can easy top $600), skill level (still new to watches so many many unknown/ risk) and time (I'm sure it take more time to modify a vintage than my car) decision decision decision .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 decision decision decision .... The MBW group buy makes it a harder decision, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 This is exactly why I created this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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