A Breakthrough for Reluming

[freddy333]

Painters tape can be lightly applied to a Sub or SD dial without removing any of the existing paint.

You may be thinking "So what?". But follow me here.

Last night, I spent an hour applying and successfully removing painters tape from the dials of my WM DRSD and Comex non-date Sub. I did this several times on both dials without any visible change to the appearance of either dial. The DRSD is about 5 months old and the Comex Sub is about 5 years old (the dial has a bit of discoloration due to age). The tape has to be applied lightly, just enough pressure to get it to stick and not so firmly that it will remove the paint when the tape is removed.

The point is that if a few more details can be worked out, this means that there may be a way to mask the non-lume parts of a dial to make reluming an easy procedure for modders.

The next step is to figure out how to locate and cut out holes in the painters tape corresponding to the exact size, dimensions and locations of the index markers on a Sub or SD (or whatever) dial so as to create a template that could be placed over the dial to make reluming a simple process. I am just starting to play with ideas, but two options might be to use tracing paper to create a master and then transfer the coordinates for the indexes onto the painters tape. Or use a flatbed scanner to scan the dial image into a graphics program and print out a paper master. Cut out the holes and then trace them (the holes) onto the painters tape. I am sure there are other (better) methods, but that is where I am now.

Once the template mask is placed onto the dial, one simply dabs the lume paste onto the index markers through the cutouts and then peels off the painters tape. The result should look like a standard silk screening. And the real beauty of this is that once you have a master template for a particular watch dial, the template can be mass produced, making the tedious and difficult job of reluming a rep dial a pretty quick & easy job that most modders should be able to on their own.

[Pugwash]

The result should look like a standard silk screening. And the real beauty of this is that once you have a master template for a particular watch dial, the template can be mass produced, making the tedious and difficult job of reluming a rep dial a pretty quick & easy job that most modders should be able to on their own.

Interesting post, and one I'll follow the progress of.

However, what about screen printing/pad printing? Is it really that costly to set up or is it the tight tolerances that get in the way?

[freddy333]

Pug -- I do not really know. The real issue there would be that you would either have to purchase the printing equipment (unless you already own it and I do not) or farm the work out to a third party. And I think the home brew procedure, at least if it works out as I envision it, should produce similar results in much less time (no waiting for a third party to fit your work into their other work) with fewer headaches (you control the quality) and at minimal cost.

I think that creating the template, which must be pretty accurate, will be the only difficult part. I am not really happy with either of the two Rube Goldberg options I described above, but I think they would probably work.

[stilty]

Painters tape can be lightly applied to a Sub or SD dial without removing any of the existing paint.

You may be thinking "So what?". But follow me here.

Last night, I spent an hour applying and successfully removing painters tape from the dials of my WM DRSD and Comex non-date Sub. I did this several times on both dials without any visible change to the appearance of either dial. The DRSD is about 5 months old and the Comex Sub is about 5 years old (the dial has a bit of discoloration due to age). The tape has to be applied lightly, just enough pressure to get it to stick and not so firmly that it will remove the paint when the tape is removed.

The point is that if a few more details can be worked out, this means that there may be a way to mask the non-lume parts of a dial to make reluming an easy procedure for modders.

The next step is to figure out how to locate and cut out holes in the painters tape corresponding to the exact size, dimensions and locations of the index markers on a Sub or SD (or whatever) dial so as to create a template that could be placed over the dial to make reluming a simple process. I am just starting to play with ideas, but two options might be to use tracing paper to create a master and then transfer the coordinates for the indexes onto the painters tape. Or use a flatbed scanner to scan the dial image into a graphics program and print out a paper master. Cut out the holes and then trace them (the holes) onto the painters tape. I am sure there are other (better) methods, but that is where I am now.

Once the template mask is placed onto the dial, one simply dabs the lume paste onto the index markers through the cutouts and then peels off the painters tape. The result should look like a standard silk screening. And the real beauty of this is that once you have a master template for a particular watch dial, the template can be mass produced, making the tedious and difficult job of reluming a rep dial a pretty quick & easy job that most modders should be able to on their own.

Have you thought of printing directly to a removable label? I've been thinking along the same lines as you, but have had no time to give it a go.

You could scan the dial, then print on your label, and carefully cut out openings as required....

or, if you really wanted perfection, you could scan your dial, create a vector based template, bring it to a sign shop, or anyone with a letter cutter, and they could possibly computer cut the template for you on removable labels.

you can get removable labels at any office supply store... and the sign shop might have something similar as well.

just a thought.

[chrgod]

Interesting...

There are quite a few projects going on now, with the IWC and Breitling datewheels and AR coating. I hope that this turns into reality as well.

[freddy333]

Have you thought of printing directly to a removable label? I've been thinking along the same lines as you, but have had no time to give it a go.

You could scan the dial, then print on your label, and carefully cut out openings as required....

or, if you really wanted perfection, you could scan your dial, create a vector based template, bring it to a sign shop, or anyone with a letter cutter, and they could possibly computer cut the template for you on removable labels.

you can get removable labels at any office supply store... and the sign shop might have something similar as well.

just a thought.

Stilty -- My experience with self-stick labels is that they are hard to remove once applied, so they may damage the dial paint when removed. That is why I focused on painters tape, which is designed purposely to be used as masking on painted surfaces without removing the existing paint. My original idea was to scan and then print the dials out onto DVD labels. Then just lume the label. If the lume turned out well, you could apply the label over the dial (after removing the existing lume and paint) and you are done. If you have ever used one of those DVD labels, you know that once they go on they do not come off (even when you want them to). Unfortunately, that approach involves the issue of getting a printer that can create multiple layers to mimic the original dial's thickened paint, which opens another set of issues. And one of my main goals here is to keep the entire process simple with just a couple of steps.

[sssurfer]

Once the template mask is placed onto the dial, one simply dabs the lume paste onto the index markers through the cutouts and then peels off the painters tape.

When you peel off the painter tape, this does not leave a neat border/design of the paste on the markers. I already tried it on hands, it does not work.

[rbj69]

leaks under the edges of the cut out(looks bad), been there done that , nice thought though

joe

[freddy333]

sss -- I would not use painters tape for luming hands. I agree that that probably would not work. The procedure I suggested is for luming dial index markers only.

rbj -- What did you use to apply the lume onto the masked dial? And what was the consistency of your lume (watery, creamy, syrupy, buttery, etc.)?

[sssurfer]

sss -- I would not use painters tape for luming hands. I agree that that probably would not work. The procedure I suggested is for luming dial index markers only.

Yes, but the problem is the same, isn't it? I tried on hands just because painters tape surely was safe on metal surfaces. You may want to have a look here.

[freddy333]

SSS -- I had the same problem when I tried to mask shiny metal hands. It left gunk on the hands. But you can remove the gunk with denatured alcohol. But there is a much easier way to lume hands and it produces nearly perfect results with very little effort.

You should relume hands (I have done about a dozen so far, including a set of very small hands from a friend's quartz watch) from the backside. You do not need to mask anything. Slide a toothpick through the hole in the end of the hand and then fix the other end of the toothpick into clay or Styrofoam -- or anything that will hold the toothpick in a vertical position and allow you to work on the back of the hand. The lume mixture should be watered down to the consistency of cream -- thicker than water, but still liquid. With the hand upside down on the toothpick, coat the end of another toothpick with lume and slowly slide the toothpick along the length of the hand so that the side of the toothpick straddles both sides of the hand and leaves a film coating of lume 'dangling' between the sides and filling the opening in the hand. You may have to do this a few times to fill in all the holes, but once the hole or holes in the hand have been filled with the lume, stop and let it dry for 10 or 15 minutes. When it is dry, repeat the process if you want a thicker coating of lume. Be careful not to make it too thick or the lume may come into contact with the dial or hand below it. Once the lume is dry, when you turn over the hand (view it from the front side), you will see that it looks factory fresh. In a couple of cases, I had to use a knife to trim a bit of lume that was peeking out on one side of the hand, but it took all of 2 seconds and the result still looked like a factory fresh hand. And if you use a lume that naturally dries with a granular appearance, it looks very much like tritium. I use the Bergeon Luminous Paste from Ofrei which I like better than SuperLume because it not only dries with this granular appearance, but its dimmer glow fades quicker (you will not be able to show all of your friends how you can read in the dark by the glow from your watch, but it looks more like what you would expect from a vintage watch with original lume).

[TJGladeRaider]

I've got a much easier way.

Box the watches carefully

Send to Ziggy insured and with tracking

Pay Ziggy

Receive the Re-Lumed watches

Mine are coming out absolutely perfect that way . . . and I'll have my boat fixed this coming week!

What could be easier than that?

Bill

[olivia]

Masking can be done best ( I believe) by using Micro Mask; it is made so you can brush the Micro Mask over the parts that you do not want painted. Once cured you can just pull it off and have a template to use again if you wish without damaging the surface. It seems to me that it would be much easier than trying to cut painters tape, which would be much thicker than the Micro Mask and you have the problem of bleeding edges.

[freddy333]

I never heard of Micro Mask. Sounds worth a try. Where did you get it?

[olivia]

I never heard of Micro Mask. Sounds worth a try. Where did you get it?

You should be able to find it at any good Art Supply Store.

[sssurfer]

@ freddy333:

Really thanks for your cohomprensive tutorial on how to relume hands. I am soon going to try it (and on numeral markers as well -- naturally in their own different way) as soon as I'll receive some SL that I am waiting for.

But what I meant was not that the method that I envised in that other post was the correct way to relume hands, just that I found troubles in using painters tape to cover the parts not to be lumed. Troubles not from tape residuals, but because when you strip the tape off, the paste borders do not come out neat.

BTW, if you like grosser grain than SL, you may have a look at ReadySetGlo on eBay in case you did not already check them.

@olivia: thanks for the Micro Mask hint, it could prove exactly what I was looking for -- and for several other projects too, besides of relume.

(I doubt that it can be found here in my country, but what the heck, the net is here to do that, isn't it?)

[olivia]

@ freddy333:

Really thanks for your cohomprensive tutorial on how to relume hands. I am soon going to try it (and on numeral markers as well -- naturally in their own different way) as soon as I'll receive some SL that I am waiting for.

But what I meant was not that the method that I envised in that other post was the correct way to relume hands, just that I found troubles in using painters tape to cover the parts not to be lumed. Troubles not from tape residuals, but because when you strip the tape off, the paste borders do not come out neat.

BTW, if you like grosser grain than SL, you may have a look at ReadySetGlo on eBay in case you did not already check them.

@olivia: thanks for the Micro Mask hint, it could prove exactly what I was looking for -- and for several other projects too, besides of relume.

(I doubt that it can be found here in my country, but what the heck, the net is here to do that, isn't it?)

I have not searched for the Micro Mask on the internet, but the brand I have is from Microscales Industries, Inc.

[vaccum]

The best way is to do it by hand....all you need is lots of patience and steady hands

[sssurfer]

I have not searched for the Micro Mask on the internet, but the brand I have is from Microscales Industries, Inc.

Found @ less than 5 Km from my home, 3 EUR.

Thanks once again!

The best way is to do it by hand....all you need is lots of patience and steady hands

Sure, but protecting the neighbours won't harm... Being a thoroughful smoker, my hands are all but steady.

[flavor flav]

The best way is to do it by hand....all you need is lots of patience and steady hands

not the best way.... the ONLY way! just use a micro oiler and do a tiny section at a time and plan on it taking a long time to finish. take it slow and steady. no need to mask. i think it may be harder to do if masked. much harder. good thought though!

[sssurfer]

i think it may be harder to do if masked. much harder.

I'll let you know, as I got Micro Mask and I am soon going to try on a test dial.

I did not receive SL yet, but I think that on such a test I may also use that other [censored] from Ofrei that I already own.

just use a micro oiler and do a tiny section at a time

Do you mean a tiny horizontal section at a time? On each index/numeral marker, several horizontal layers of paste?

[freddy333]

I'll let you know, as I got Micro Mask and I am soon going to try on a test dial.

I did not receive SL yet, but I think that on such a test I may also use that other [censored] from Ofrei that I already own.

I would be interested in hearing your results with MicroMask masking. I do not know which watch you are testing with, but if it is a vintage model, the Bergeon Luminous Paste that Ofrei sells produces the most realistic looking glow for a vintage watch (with waning Tritium).

[sssurfer]

I would be interested in hearing your results with MicroMask masking. I do not know which watch you are testing with, but if it is a vintage model, the Bergeon Luminous Paste that Ofrei sells produces the most realistic looking glow for a vintage watch (with waning Tritium).

Actually I'm just going to make experiences on some low-end-rep dials that I got on my beach last year, and on some Jimmy's dials that are on their way to me.

I am not ready to risk any of my beloved-even-if-cheap reps right now, I am too much of a newbie on this.

The stuff that I got from Ofrei was not the luminous paste, but the A*F kit (luminows powder + varnish + thinner).

[freddy333]

Actually I'm just going to make experiences on some low-end-rep dials that I got on my beach last year, and on some Jimmy's dials that are on their way to me.

I am not ready to risk any of my beloved-even-if-cheap reps right now, I am too much of a newbie on this.

The stuff that I got from Ofrei was not the luminous paste, but the A*F kit (luminows powder + varnish + thinner).

Yes, I would not do your testing on anything that you cannot bear to lose or replace. The Bergeon Luminous Paste has the added benefit that it comes as a paste, you only need to thin it a bit with water (or food color or paint, if you want to add some patina). It is alot easier than mixing the other stuff, but either should be fine for testing purposes.

[sssurfer]

Yes, I would not do your testing on anything that you cannot bear to lose or replace. The Bergeon Luminous Paste has the added benefit that it comes as a paste, you only need to thin it a bit with water (or food color or paint, if you want to add some patina). It is alot easier than mixing the other stuff, but either should be fine for testing purposes.

Thanks for the advice... but as I want to get skilled on the SL powder (also about mixing and diluting it, I mean) I think it may be worth to have a go directly with that type of thing.

(Actually, testing the Micro Mask is not my primaty target, it is just a secondary target).

BTW, and just for anyone's information: I ordered the Bergeon Paste (and paid for it) on eBay from FindingKing about three months ago, and they did not deliver.