Care/winding of "Seconds at 6" 7750?

[jj69]

I just acquired my first "seconds at 6" 7750-based watch (IWC Porto Chrono). For the moment, it is functioning perfectly, and it even has decent power reserve. I've done the basic research on these seconds at 6 models and I fully understand that I'll be lucky if the movement runs for another six months before failing. However, I'd like to take some reasonable precautions to get as much life out the movement as possible.

My question is: Is it better to leave a seconds at 6 watch on a winder, or is it better to let it run down and wind it only when needed?

My theory (which may well be completely wrong) is that these seconds at 6 models should last longer if you let them run down and wind them only when needed, treating them much like a manual wind model. My understanding is that these models are doomed to fail because the extra tansfer gears cause undue stress on the movement. This is compounded by the fact that the seconds hand at 6 is constantly running. So my common-sense theory is that there should be no stress on the movement when the watch is stopped.

Is there any logic to my admittedly novice theory?

[geekybiker]

I just acquired my first "seconds at 6" 7750-based watch (IWC Porto Chrono). For the moment, it is functioning perfectly, and it even has decent power reserve. I've done the basic research on these seconds at 6 models and I fully understand that I'll be lucky if the movement runs for another six months before failing. However, I'd like to take some reasonable precautions to get as much life out the movement as possible.

My question is: Is it better to leave a seconds at 6 watch on a winder, or is it better to let it run down and wind it only when needed?

My theory (which may well be completely wrong) is that these seconds at 6 models should last longer if you let them run down and wind them only when needed, treating them much like a manual wind model. My understanding is that these models are doomed to fail because the extra tansfer gears cause undue stress on the movement. This is compounded by the fact that the seconds hand at 6 is constantly running. So my common-sense theory is that there should be no stress on the movement when the watch is stopped.

Is there any logic to my admittedly novice theory?

If I really really wanted a seconds at 6 model, I would seriously consider removing the extra gear drives for the subdials once I got it. That should up the reliability factor, but you lose some functions. Have to decide what is important I guess.

[jj69]

I understand your point, but I'd like to preserve the running seconds hand as long as possible, for the authentic look.

If I wear the watch once a week, and let it run down and leave it stopped for the other six days of the week, will it last six times as long?

Also, is stopping the watch by pulling out the crown the same as letting it run down completely (as far as wear and tear on the movement is concerned)?

If I really really wanted a seconds at 6 model, I would seriously consider removing the extra gear drives for the subdials once I got it. That should up the reliability factor, but you lose some functions. Have to decide what is important I guess.

[RWG Technical]

I understand your point, but I'd like to preserve the running seconds hand as long as possible, for the authentic look.

If I wear the watch once a week, and let it run down and leave it stopped for the other six days of the week, will it last six times as long?

The oils are not affected by running or not running...they will evaporate after about 5 years and will need to be cleaned off and replaced with fresh oil. If the watch is serviced correctly, then it won't make any difference to the wear or lack of wear if the watch is running or not. If the watch is dry and not oiled correctly, then the longer you run it this way, the quicker it will wear out...

Also, is stopping the watch by pulling out the crown the same as letting it run down completely (as far as wear and tear on the movement is concerned)?

No, pulling the crown out, is similar to having your car in gear (automatic) and pressing on the brake, while revving the engine...the car is not moving, but the engine and transmission are under strain.

When you hack the movement, your stopping the balance from swinging, the balance is the last item in the gear train, and all the pressuer from the spring, through to the balance is still there and being felt throughout the gears and pivots. Probably better to let it run down and stop, no spring wound up, no stress...and it's better for the spring as well, as it gets to "rest" when unwound.

RG

[jj69]

The oils are not affected by running or not running...they will evaporate after about 5 years and will need to be cleaned off and replaced with fresh oil. If the watch is serviced correctly, then it won't make any difference to the wear or lack of wear if the watch is running or not. If the watch is dry and not oiled correctly, then the longer you run it this way, the quicker it will wear out...

Thanks The Zigmeister. So, if I understand you correctly, then my original theory is correct.

With a stock "seconds at 6" 7750 movement, assuming the movement is completely dry, there will be less stress on the movement if you let it run down completely. So leaving your stock seconds at 6 watch off your winder, and winding it only when you actually intend to wear it, should prolong the life of the stock movement, correct?

[RWG Technical]

Thanks Ziggy. So, if I understand you correctly, then my original theory is correct.

With a stock "seconds at 6" 7750 movement, assuming the movement is completely dry, there will be less stress on the movement if you let it run down completely. So leaving your stock seconds at 6 watch off your winder, and winding it only when you actually intend to wear it, should prolong the life of the stock movement, correct?

Yes, that would be how I would see it...

RG

[Pugwash]

Yes, that would be how I would see it...

Excellent. That verifies my opinion.

I have avoided getting a watch winder because I don't see the point. I'm not scared of setting my watches before wearing them and I don't see the need to waste electricity to save me 30 seconds when choosing a watch.

The only reason I would ever consider a winder is for a perpetual calendar. Some of them are not designed to be set backwards and rolling past a certain date can necessitate a watchmaker's intervention to get the date correct. Some jewellers only sell Perpetual Calendars with a winder.

[jj69]

Excellent. That verifies my opinion.

I have avoided getting a watch winder because I don't see the point. I'm not scared of setting my watches before wearing them and I don't see the need to waste electricity to save me 30 seconds when choosing a watch.

The only reason I would ever consider a winder is for a perpetual calendar. Some of them are not designed to be set backwards and rolling past a certain date can necessitate a watchmaker's intervention to get the date correct. Some jewellers only sell Perpetual Calendars with a winder.

Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are good reasons for owning a winder, other than convenience:

1] Movements with bi-directional rotors (like ETAs) should not be hand-wound. I suppose you could shake the watch to wind it, however.

2] One thing that supposedly causes wear and tear on the movement is use of the quick date set function. Keeping the watch on a winder necessitates a date change only once a month, and only during months with less than 31 days.

3] Screwing and un-screwing a screw-down crown can lead to a worn crown tube. Leaving it on a winder means you rarely need to touch the crown to set the time or change the date (unless the movement is not very acurrate).

If I'm wrong on any of these points, please enlighten me.

Edited March 24, 2007 by jj69

[TWP]

Many good points here.

1. I never put my watches on a winder and it is very seldom that I wind them. I put them on dead and after a few minutes I adjust the time and screw the crown back down.

2. I always let them go dead.

Perhaps it has been luck or my gently care, but I have yet to own an automatic or mechanical watch that has failed or kept inaccurate time. That goes from Valjoux Eta 7753 to the standerd 21j asian automatic.

[By-Tor]

I never hand wind my watches, either. I let them run down... and when I change a watch I just set the time and date... and shake it lightly.

I also have a perfect track record with reps. Absolutely no mechanical problems at all. Ironically my only defective rep ever was the Tudor that used a non-rep movement (ETA 2842). And even that only had badly installed rotor... and Palpatine fixed it with ease.

[who]

isn't the newbie section tell people to hand wind their watch for something like 50 times when they arrive, unless this is only apply to new watch........cuz by reading this post it sounds like hand wind a watch is not recommend by you guys, I'm confuse.

[TWP]

isn't the newbie section tell people to hand wind their watch for something like 50 times when they arrive, unless this is only apply to new watch........cuz by reading this post it sounds like hand wind a watch is not recommend by you guys, I'm confuse.

I am not sure about the newbie section but the are many people whom suggest hand winding to initiate power. I am strictly against any form of winding, other than motion.

[who]

I am not sure about the newbie section but the are many people whom suggest hand winding to initiate power. I am strictly against any form of winding, other than motion.

I meant like the article in "watch basics 101".

btw...in which way the watch is getting more power, shake it lightly or hand wind?

[RWG Technical]

I meant like the article in "watch basics 101".

btw...in which way the watch is getting more power, shake it lightly or hand wind?

The reason that I suggest you hand wind a new watch when you first get it, is to charge it up before wearing it. Once your experienced wearing a mechanincal watch you know your wearing habits and how well the watch charges up when your wearing it.

For a new person to mechanical watches, if they did not wind the watch, and swirled it enough to get it going, depending on their level of movement while wearing the watch, it could stop running in a few hours...and they may blame it on a defective watch, when in reality it's simply run out of power.

My basics 101 is written and intended for someone new to mechanical watches, the warning is there to wind s l o w l y to protect the click wheels, but I also recommend that it be fully wound before wearing it to avoid having it stop and the owner thinking it's defective.

An automatic movement gets power from movement, the more you move, the more it winds. If you sit still all day, it's not winding...

Maybe I need to clear up that section of the information to make it more clear.

RG

[gioarmani]

If you let a secs @ 6 7750 wind down all the time, that means every time you're ready to wear the watch again, you'll have to re-adjust the time by hacking the movement, thereby wearing out the cannon-pin; which these things are notorious for crapping out.

[Pugwash]

If you let a secs @ 6 7750 wind down all the time, that means every time you're ready to wear the watch again, you'll have to re-adjust the time by hacking the movement, thereby wearing out the cannon-pin; which these things are notorious for crapping out.

But you're hacking a stopped movement ...

[TWP]

If you let a secs @ 6 7750 wind down all the time, that means every time you're ready to wear the watch again, you'll have to re-adjust the time by hacking the movement, thereby wearing out the cannon-pin; which these things are notorious for crapping out.

Hacking a movement that is not in motion. Like I said it may be luck or voodoo, but currently I own twenty plus reps with 7750 movements and not one has acted up, not one has had a single probelm. Better to hack a dead movement then a running movement

[Corgi]

Hacking a movement that is not in motion. Like I said it may be luck or voodoo, but currently I own twenty plus reps with 7750 movements and not one has acted up, not one has had a single probelm. Better to hack a dead movement then a running movement

Lucky...

Though I can't complain, I bought a 7750 a few weeks ago and its awesome, but it's the correct seconds at 9:00 model...

[TWP]

Lucky...

Though I can't complain, I bought a 7750 a few weeks ago and its awesome, but it's the correct seconds at 9:00 model...

Actually one of the 7750's was from luckky. One of his last before MIA. Yeah, the new 7750's are really nice with running seconds at 9:00.

[Antonio]

Since it would seem to go well here, which direction is the best for the winder to spin with the new 7750? Clockwise or counter?

[Category 5]

Since it would seem to go well here, which direction is the best for the winder to spin with the new 7750? Clockwise or counter?

With a 7750 the watch is only winding if the winder is turning clockwise.