MBW 1655 Orange Hand -a brief review/comparison

[tmg]

I decided to give the MBW 1655 "Steve McQueen" a try from the TTK group buy -thanks again for the fast shipping a superior service Neil . I'm ceratainly no expert, but I do know what I like, know the vintage Rolex lineup and can spot obvious details that make or break a rep and have been a gen watch collector/enthusiast for some 20 years.

This is a quick and dirty review of this long awaited (vintage cult following) MBW rep. Well, perhaps this is less of a review than a comparison for modding purposes and to illicit advice on what is possible as a platform to build a decent franken. I won't go into a lot of detail with how it compares to a gen, just brief comparison to what's out there in existing reps.

The MBW is powered by a 2836 ETA and the GMT hand is independently adjustable. You can see the date mag is almost non-existent, the crystal isn't nearly tall enough and the hands are still not correct -why is this detail so hard to get right! . The dial has a flaw with the first minute marker line missing, but otherwise IMHO this is the strongest detail of the watch.

For size comparison here's a side by side with the MBW on the left and a TT Top Grade Vintage on the right. You can see the MBW has a larger dial and bezel in thickness and overall diameter.

Some measurements:

MBW

case width - 39.56mm excluding crown

case length - 47.80mm lug to lug

bezel - 39.47mm exterior, 30.73mm interior

TT Top Grade Vintage

case width - 38.58mm excluding crown

case length - 46.93mm lug to lug

bezel - 37.46mm exterior, 30.26mm interior

I was so excited about this watch I didn't even think to ask or notice from Neils pix that the case isn't correct, the springbar holes are not drilled through . The case back is the thicker and flat and not beveled (sorry I forgot to shoot a pix of that) and has no engravings whatsoever. A key to note is that the Top Grade vintage caseback which is more correct was interchangable with the MBW caseback.

Which leads to the question of what case was used for this watch -the answer...

a modern Explorer II. The Top Grade does have the correct 1655 markings BTW

So there you go, my first review of sorts and here are my questions and requests for commentary on this much anticpated MBW piece.

1) Is this the correct size case for the 1655 i.e. will gen bezel, dial and Tropic 116 fit?

I haven't uncased the movement (I'll have learned to punt here after breaking a rep or two disecting them) so I can't confirm the size of the dial, but I'm making the assumption based on the comparison that it is larger than a submariner dial which I believe is ~26mm, and certainly correct me if I'm wrong but Explorer II dials are 27+mm.

2) Will a gen movement fit inside?

Since there are no good 1655 hands out there for ETA movements, gen or CWP aftermarket seem to be the only correct options on gen movement.

3) How difficult is it to drill the springbar holes all the way through and will any of our beloved and talented watchmakers/modders even do this?

4) What is the overall feeling of the dial, bezel and proportions?

Ubi, Eunomians, Avitt I'd love to hear your thoughts and advice of what you think can be done?

Thanks in advance!

[ubiquitous]

Hmmmm... Very interesting. For what it's worth... The TTK 1655 looks to have the more correct dimensions at the dial/crystal/bezel, as the genuine dial/crystal are about 1mm larger than that of a 1680 or 1665.

Will a genuine crystal fit? My guess is... Probably not. If this is anything like the vintage 1675 MBW rep (which also uses a modern GMT case), the crystal is actually pressed/seated inside the case lip, as opposed to fitting over the lip a la 1680/1665. So, I'd say that a gen 116 probably will not fit (though seeing the watch with the bezel removed will help answer that).

As for the movement... Fitting a gen 1575 might be doable- Like the MBW 1665, it probably requires a little internal milling to get things to line up correctly.

As for drilling the lug holes... I'd say that's doable as long as the right equipment is used (i.e. drill press with the right bits). You may want to check with Ziggy as I believe he is set up to do the job right

All in all, this could be the basis of a very nice project watch...

[tmg]

Thanks Ubi! As always you're a wealth of info and knowledge.

I'm going to take the bezel off this evening and confirm how the crystal is seated and update the post.

The Zigmeister's on the list next to ping!

[By-Tor]

The MBW crown guards and crown are superior. They look horrendous on the "TT Top Grade".

Crystal magnification isn't such a big issue. Some aftermarket generic crystals don't have that big of a mag.

[eunomians]

All in all, the MBW looks like a nice modification candidate. Here are some thoughts/answers to your questions:

There is no doubt that the primary dilemna is the inaccurate BPH of the ETA movement. To mod the case to fit a 1575 movement, you would need to enlist the services of a very skilled individual (such as The Zigmeister). For the lug holes, as Ubi mentioned, the correct tools are needed. Once again, a fine fellow like The Zigmeister could do the job correctly.

I like the bezel width and the CGs on the (supposed) MBW. The overall 'feel' appears to be quite nice IMHO.

As far as the dial size... I am fairly certain that the dial is the same size as the 1675, 5512/3, 1680, 1665.

Like By-Tor mentioned, most aftermarket Tropic 116 crystals have 1.5x - 2x magnification, so your date issues could 'work out'. Remember that OEM T-116 mag is 2.5x

Overall, this is going to be a fun project!!

---> Please let us know how that caseback looks. Is it thicker than the 1675 and thinner than 1680/5513? This caseback issue has always driven me nuts. OEM 1655 sits very differently on the wrist than 1675 or 5513. I try on my aunt's 1655 every year when I see her in Tokyo and my daily watch for the past 15+ years has been OEM 1675. Mmmm...

[Guest TTK]

And here was me thinking it was just a nice Explorer II......

Good informative post..... I wish I could get more into teh vintage Rollie modding and stuff.......no I don't.....

@Tmg......sorry about the missing minute marker......this is the first I've seen one of these......will know to look out for that in future.....!

PS....the one thing I do like about the MBW is the thicker bezel........!

Is the TT one you show ..... fitted with the 'rail' dial...?

Edited April 12, 2007 by TTK

[HighDef]

Those lugs are going to very tough to drill

[tmg]

Here are some updated pix with the bezel removed and sure enough Ubi was right, the crystal does sit inside the lip in a channel and was glued in. I installed a Clarks generic T116 just to see how the fit was and its really snug -in fact I may have cracked the bottom, I can't tell for sure if it's a crack or a scratch .

Now, has anyone ever drilled out the lugs on new case models like this??? I checked with The Zigmeister and he can enlarge existing holes but cannot make them.

Thanks for tuning in.

[tmg]

All in all, the MBW looks like a nice modification candidate. Here are some thoughts/answers to your questions:

There is no doubt that the primary dilemna is the inaccurate BPH of the ETA movement. To mod the case to fit a 1575 movement, you would need to enlist the services of a very skilled individual (such as The Zigmeister). For the lug holes, as Ubi mentioned, the correct tools are needed. Once again, a fine fellow like The Zigmeister could do the job correctly.

I like the bezel width and the CGs on the (supposed) MBW. The overall 'feel' appears to be quite nice IMHO.

As far as the dial size... I am fairly certain that the dial is the same size as the 1675, 5512/3, 1680, 1665.

Like By-Tor mentioned, most aftermarket Tropic 116 crystals have 1.5x - 2x magnification, so your date issues could 'work out'. Remember that OEM T-116 mag is 2.5x

Overall, this is going to be a fun project!!

---> Please let us know how that caseback looks. Is it thicker than the 1675 and thinner than 1680/5513? This caseback issue has always driven me nuts. OEM 1655 sits very differently on the wrist than 1675 or 5513. I try on my aunt's 1655 every year when I see her in Tokyo and my daily watch for the past 15+ years has been OEM 1675. Mmmm...

Euno,

Thanks or the reply and great info as well!

I swapped case back with the TT version since I found it to be more accurate and have since sold that watch to a buddy of mine (trying to finance this project ), so I don't have a pix of it. I can tell you that it was very tall and completly flat. Here's a pix of it with the TT case back on it.

By-tor,

I agree the CG's on the TT version are fugly

TTK,

The watch from Andrew is completely stock.

[kingkitesurf]

The supposed MBW looks fair. Dimensions look god. At this stage there is a gen for sale on the bay. Snag the pics to have a reference. I am big fan of the 1655. IMHO this is what should be done to make the MBW look best

- Hands hands hands

- Gen tropic looks good on yours

- Lug holes (drill them from the inside by surpassing the opposite lug at the bottom side with a long drill and lots of cooling fluid)

That would make a splendid watch.

[tmg]

Here's a quick update with a mix of hands off yet another 1655, I must be nuts I have a 1655 scrap pile going . It looks better, particularly the orange hand but still the same old problem; the lume is too wide on the hands not to mention the hour and minute hands are the same width. I know the bezel is not quite centered, it was a quick and dirty to see how it looks.

On a hopeful note, I did find someone that may be able to drill those lugs through -fingers crossed!

[eunomians]

Lookin' good thus far.

Cheers

[kingkitesurf]

Djeez RepAus that is ne very, very cool 1655... What did you use as a base (Joshes). Did you use the CWP hands? How about fitting a 2893 in there... Is this possible?

[tmg]

Thanks a lot Euno!

Lookin' good thus far.

Cheers

[tmg]

Just beautiful Repaus,

I have much more work to do on this project. Custom hands and aging the dial are all on the list.

Can you give us more details on yours?

-TMG

Please do some serious aging to the dial - like enlarging the outter markers to the dial edge as per genuine... those lugholes are a MUST. Hands are filled a too broad manner with lume - get a set off CWP - and try fit them in. YOu will have it better and better...

Like mine...