verbal Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Boy was I excited when the postman delivered my long anticipated Chopard Mille Miglia GT XL. Felt like a four-year old receiving his early morning birthday present, unwrapping it like an idiot to find a , euh... well... let's see... Hucking Fell, I've been scammed for the first time from a resputable dealer here on the board aaaarrrgghhhh That indeed was my first thought when opening the parcel, and on second sight, I wasn't scammed at all, King found a revolutionary way of cheating customs, let's put it that way. Members who have bought recently from King probably found the same item in the EMS bag... I'm not gonna spoil the surprise :whistling: Anyway, after unpacking and facing the smell of vanilla it was about time for a closer inspection, and it does look like a US$ 3K watch in person, the AR coating is one of the best I have seen in a while (I don't own the Big Bang or the latest Breitling reps, so my reference is the 4th gen PO.) it feels solid, heavy and even the strap is reasonable with a very good deployant clasp. thumps up ! Even the 'sticker' on the rotor looks better in person, the images on the dealers' websites are no reference. So, why do I think it's not worth the $300... indeed , the movement... I know, I should know better after all these long posts about Asian 7750's and reliability and such, but hey, I still own a 2 year old PAM50 from Eddie, same engine, no chrono function and still running strong, so what the heck, give it a try since there is no chrono function on the Chopard either.. I woke up this morning finding it was 20.5 of April.. aperantly the changing of the date was a bit too stressfull during my midnight nap, and today, while looking at it, the jerky seconds hand bothers me even more. Some of you with the IWC Portu's out there know how jerky a seconds hand can be, this is worse, far more worse.. I guess I'll grab a swiss 7750 off Ebay and replace the Asian so it'll make me feel better All in all, overall quality is good, movement is an area for improvement but that's no news so let's end with a wristshot Enjoy your weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wan Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Boy was I excited when the postman delivered my long anticipated Chopard Mille Miglia GT XL. Felt like a four-year old receiving his early morning birthday present, unwrapping it like an idiot to find a , euh... well... let's see... Hucking Fell, I've been scammed for the first time from a resputable dealer here on the board aaaarrrgghhhh That indeed was my first thought when opening the parcel, and on second sight, I wasn't scammed at all, King found a revolutionary way of cheating customs, let's put it that way. Members who have bought recently from King probably found the same item in the EMS bag... I'm not gonna spoil the surprise :whistling: Anyway, after unpacking and facing the smell of vanilla it was about time for a closer inspection, and it does look like a US$ 3K watch in person, the AR coating is one of the best I have seen in a while (I don't own the Big Bang or the latest Breitling reps, so my reference is the 4th gen PO.) it feels solid, heavy and even the strap is reasonable with a very good deployant clasp. thumps up ! Even the 'sticker' on the rotor looks better in person, the images on the dealers' websites are no reference. So, why do I think it's not worth the $300... indeed , the movement... I know, I should know better after all these long posts about Asian 7750's and reliability and such, but hey, I still own a 2 year old PAM50 from Eddie, same engine, no chrono function and still running strong, so what the heck, give it a try since there is no chrono function on the Chopard either.. I woke up this morning finding it was 20.5 of April.. aperantly the changing of the date was a bit too stressfull during my midnight nap, and today, while looking at it, the jerky seconds hand bothers me even more. Some of you with the IWC Portu's out there know how jerky a seconds hand can be, this is worse, far more worse.. I guess I'll grab a swiss 7750 off Ebay and replace the Asian so it'll make me feel better All in all, overall quality is good, movement is an area for improvement but that's no news so let's end with a wristshot Enjoy your weekend I have the same problem with the jerky second hand, it really bugged me until the watch hands went totally limp. Now that REALLY bugs me. I do not think these were made very well, i have the older version also with the Asian 21J and it's movement is solid as a rock. I wish the ultimate version worked as good as it looks..............Wan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Very sorry to hear that. I concluded about 9 months ago that the aesthetics were moving to a whole other level but that the movements were only going to get worse and made the conscious decision to buy a dozen Swiss movements. So my approach is to build in $200-250 additional expense into $300-400 reps and simply buy fewer. Sometimes I get lucky and they are fine but I generally assume the worst. Because these are reps and no customer is buying more than one there is no penalty for the manufacturers chintzing out on the movements. To whom are you going to complain about an illegal item? By the time people figure out there is a problem (and we are a small portion of the buyers so most people never find out) the run of a 1,000 is long since sold leaving the dealers and consumers to hold the bag. Make no mistake - the manufacturers will continue to improve what helps sell watches - the aesthetics. And to make matters worse there are now numerous manufacturers making 7750's with very varying quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1 Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 The seconds hand on mine also stutters/jumps noticeably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 I just recently got the 21J version and I love it, it's the best bang for your buck watch I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verbal Posted April 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 That does indeed look good and I bet this don't suffer from a jerky seconds hand... I all cases, this was the last non ETA rep in my life, i'll go with Kruzer, focus on the higher end reps or add a few dollars more for replacing the movement. I just recently got the 21J version and I love it, it's the best bang for your buck watch I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flugel Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 What, other than the movement, is different on the 21J version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doopey Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) What, other than the movement, is different on the 21J version? Datewheel color is wrong, should be black. Edited April 26, 2007 by doopey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoesmith Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 The reason for the jerkiness is because the chrono function IS actually running!!!!! the second hand on the so called Ultimate with Asian 7750 modified movement is the chrono second hand and is continually running. For this reason you get the jerkiness. I will not be buying one maybe an Asian one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbailey86 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Nice watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Received mine this morning from Trusty First impressions - Build quality of watch is very nice and solid although I'm slightly concerned that the '2' of the '12' seems a little misaligned. The jerkiness of the secs hand is quite noticeable and hearing that it's running off the chrono makes me worry slightly. Can any experts pipe in and comment what long-term effect that may have on the movement? I can't smell vanilla on the strap although that may be because I smoke too much and my sense is smell is ruined! IMO it's a nice watch but probably not worth the $330 I paid. The Br_itling Evo seems better put together and better value. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Pics, anybody?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verbal Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 What, other than the movement, is different on the 21J version? Check the Eyecandy section on TRC, Puretime has listed the differences and to quote Puretime : The one other dealers are now selling is easy to obtain, you cannot see it on my web because it is far away from a gen. Tomorrow I will do a side by side compairon on these 2 version to let you see. Some of the main differences: 1. True AR coating on my version but fake blue coating on the cheaper version. 2. Sapphire crystal on my version (non-Chinese Sapphire) but simple glass on the cheaper version. 3. True hard rubber on my version but soft PVC rubber on the cheaper version. 4. Modified Asian 7750 (28,800 vph) movement on my version but Asian 21J (21,600 vph) on the cheaper version. 5. 1:1 steel buckle on my version but a complete different buckle on the cheaper version. 6. Leather straps are also available on my version but only rubber strap is available on the cheaper version. Appearance difference will be analysed by the side by side comparison tomorrow. The cheaper version is a good try if you do not like this watch too much, but if you expect a 99% rep on this model, please wait a little bit more for my version and I can guarantee it will worth every cent. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppen Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 The reason for the jerkiness is because the chrono function IS actually running!!!!! the second hand on the so called Ultimate with Asian 7750 modified movement is the chrono second hand and is continually running. For this reason you get the jerkiness. I will not be buying one maybe an Asian one.... If the second hand is the chrono function running..that must play havoc with the power reserve..no? can any owners comment on the PR of this watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flugel Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Thanks for the info. I'm also curious about the second hand's effect on the power reserve, and just how jerky the second hand is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Has The Zigmeister or anyone else actually examined this model and determined that the second hand is, in fact, running off the chrono function?. Logically, I can't figure out how that would work. If the second hand is running off the chrono, then wouldn't it be completely independent of the rest of the movement? I thought the whole chrono module was supposed to be removed from the movement in this watch. Isn't it more likely that the second hand is running off it's normal 9 o'clock position through the use of a transfer gear? Perhaps the problem is with the alignment/design/lubrication of this new transfer gear mechanism? If that's the case, then perhaps it can be fixed? What are the Panerai's with the same movement like? The reason for the jerkiness is because the chrono function IS actually running!!!!! the second hand on the so called Ultimate with Asian 7750 modified movement is the chrono second hand and is continually running. For this reason you get the jerkiness. I will not be buying one maybe an Asian one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoesmith Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Has The Zigmeister or anyone else actually examined this model and determined that the second hand is, in fact, running off the chrono function?. Logically, I can't figure out how that would work. If the second hand is running off the chrono, then wouldn't it be completely independent of the rest of the movement? I thought the whole chrono module was supposed to be removed from the movement in this watch. Isn't it more likely that the second hand is running off it's normal 9 o'clock position through the use of a transfer gear? Perhaps the problem is with the alignment/design/lubrication of this new transfer gear mechanism? If that's the case, then perhaps it can be fixed? What are the Panerai's with the same movement like? The Panerais with the same movement dont have running center seconds. They have the seconds at 9 oclock position which is normal layout for the 7750 movement. Im not a watch expert but with the knowledge i have it seems that the only way to get the running center seconds on this watch would be to use the chrono second hand and have it constantly running. Why would the maker want to make a gear transfer system, to complicate things and also add cost to the watch, i know its already expensive!!. Personally i dont think this is the case. I think its just the chrono seconds running and thats the reason for the jerkiness. When The Zigmeister comes back from his break maybe he can chime in and clear this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 The Panerais with the same movement dont have running center seconds. They have the seconds at 9 oclock position which is normal layout for the 7750 movement. Im not a watch expert but with the knowledge i have it seems that the only way to get the running center seconds on this watch would be to use the chrono second hand and have it constantly running. Why would the maker want to make a gear transfer system, to complicate things and also add cost to the watch, i know its already expensive!!. Personally i dont think this is the case. I think its just the chrono seconds running and thats the reason for the jerkiness. When The Zigmeister comes back from his break maybe he can chime in and clear this up. I hear what you're saying, but I think the second hand problems could just as well be caused by a poorly executed transfer gear powered by the 9 o'clock seconds subdial. The jerkiness symptom people are describing has been compared to the IWC porto chrono. That model uses transfer gears to run the second hand off the 9 o'clock subdial as well. If the chrono module is removed from the movement of the XL, I don't know how they'd get the chrono seconds function to run. Is it possible to hack the seconds on the XL? If not, that lends support to your theory (i.e. the chrono function runs constantly, independent of the movement). If the seconds do hack, I think it lends support to mine (i.e. the seconds are powered by the 9 o'clock subdial, which does hack on a standard 7750). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchman12345 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 A continuously running chrono does not effect power reserve and according to The Zigmeister puts no more stress on the movement than a non running chrono. He has posted this a few times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi, 3 questions for me : - what does "chinese sapphire" mean ? That's new to me. - why put a 7750 where the simplest Asian 21J would be enough (and smooth) ? :cc_confused: - for the price, wouldn't a simple Swiss ETA 2824 be the right movement ? Thx for your comments BTW, I like the watch... but am too wondering about the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 - why put a 7750 where the simplest Asian 21J would be enough (and smooth) ? :cc_confused: - for the price, wouldn't a simple Swiss ETA 2824 be the right movement ? afaik the 2824 would not be big enough. this is a really large watch and the date window is way out there but my $120 cheapie asian version had a nice smooth sweep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi, 3 questions for me : - what does "chinese sapphire" mean ? That's new to me. - why put a 7750 where the simplest Asian 21J would be enough (and smooth) ? :cc_confused: - for the price, wouldn't a simple Swiss ETA 2824 be the right movement ? Thx for your comments BTW, I like the watch... but am too wondering about the price. as an fyi, i got my GTXL from Timeswiss, paid $112. He offered me a version with the ETA 2824 for $100 more, but I declined - but it is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 afaik the 2824 would not be big enough. this is a really large watch and the date window is way out there but my $120 cheapie asian version had a nice smooth sweep... Then a [Edit] 2834 or something like that ... anyway, a Swiss movement. Strange choice. And the date wheel can probably be modified, no ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj69 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 I believe the maker claimed the 7750 was necessary in order to put the datewheel in the correct place near the edge of the dial. However, the makers of the $100 version somehow managed to accomplish that using the smaller 21J Asian movement. For the price, it should really have at least a 2824 in it. The gen uses a new derivation of the Valjoux 7750 known as the "Valgranges" movement, so the Asian 7750 would be the closest movement to the genuine. I think the real problem here is in the execution, not so much with the A7750 movement itself. - why put a 7750 where the simplest Asian 21J would be enough (and smooth) ? :cc_confused: - for the price, wouldn't a simple Swiss ETA 2824 be the right movement ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Then a 2836 or something... anyway, a Swiss movement. Strange choice. re my post above, i may have got the numbers wrong - can't find the email now he sent me. Suffice to say, he had a swiss movement option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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