freddy333 Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 I have one of Clark's T39 Superdomes (Reference Number 25-39) that I purchased as a replacement for my WM/MBW DRSD's OEM crystal (which looks very nice, but does not have quite the height or image quality of a gen superdome). After seeing Nanuq's recent post comparing a good aftermarket superdome (which I think is Clark's) to a gen superdome, I began to wonder if it is worth going the extra mile for the gen? Both crystals look the same from the outside. But, when viewing the same image through both crystals, the aftermarket seems to distort the image in the center of the crystal. I was wondering what others who have experience with both crystals feel about this and if the difference is that noticeable in actual use or worth the difference in cost? The only source for gen Superdomes I have found wants $165 each. As I am going (almost) all-out on this watch (not planning to replace the movement with a gen (at least not now)), I do not mind paying the premium if there is a detectable difference in the appearance of the watch at relatively close (3 or 4 feet) range. But since this level of mod is getting into hair-splitting territory, I wanted to seek the advice of our more experienced modders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingkitesurf Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Fred, I can only say the gen superdome magnifies your dial intens... I have a gen from Timeman and it cost me 150$ but its worth every penny. It adds more looks than gen crowns and tubes and inserts. Next to my MBW white SD 1665 with gen flat tropic #39 the whole DRSD watch looks bigger because of the magnification... I will try to shoot pics in the weekend... I did a comparison earlier BTW... http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...2&hl=tropic some more on the flat#39 http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...5&hl=tropic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 KKS -- Like minds. Believe it or not, I emailed Timeman yesterday about his Superdome, but have not heard anything back yet. I have a few of Helfand's T39s and they definitely do not compare to the gens. But your comparison did not include one of Clark's Superdomes, which are better than Helfands. And I think the only difference Nanuq identified between Clark's and the gen was a slight deviation in the way the center of the lens was ground. Otherwise, sitting next to each other (unlike Helfand's version) they look about the same. Here is a comparison I did that shows how an image is refracted differently through different crystals (Clark's superdome and 2 flat top T39s (one is Helfand's)) If you look closely (through the Clark superdome) at the vertical line on the left, you will see that it refracts about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. While there should be a gradual magnification of the line, it should not appear to separate as it does. It is difficult to tell from the photos, but you can see similar refractions all the way around the crystal at about 1/2" in from the outer edge. This causes the image viewed through the lens to appear very slightly wavy where the grinding/polishing of the lens is imperfect. The effect is like one of those circus mirrors that distort your image, but no where near as strong, and it is almost undetectable unless you view the same image through a gen superdome right next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Nanuq -- Thank you for the clarification. I think you may have been posting at the same time I was, so you may not have seen the photos and description of the effect I am seeing in Clark's otherwise excellent superdome. But based on your 'ringed' description, it sounds like the same ever-so-slight deviation that affects Clark's. Is that what you saw on the other aftermarket superdome sample? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Exaggerated distortion of the sample Yes, those were the photos I was referring to. When viewing a distant image, Clark's superdome has a similar (but possibly wider) distortion. It looks like the center of the lens may have been ground a bit too flat in contrast to the rest of the lens. I can also see the same type of refraction (in the crystal on the right) that appears to break the vertical line in the lower left corner of that lens, and it looks like it occurs at about the same place in your photo as it does in mine. I have a feeling your sample aftermarket superdome may have come from the same source that Clark's comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo2001 Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Fascinating...especially since I am in the market for a good T39...not too impressed with the Helfands 9 buck job sitting here on my desk for the last two months. Compared with the gen 127 on my 1680, the plastic looks like junk. The gen is so clear and sparkly in comparison. Does anybody have pics of the Clark 39 on a watch, illustrating the effects of the distortion? I'm tempted due to price and easy availability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Mojo -- Not exactly a perfect comparison since the dials and datewheels are different, but here is a side-by-side shot of my OEM MBW next to an aftermarket dial with the Watchmeister datewheel topper sitting underneath Clark's superdome crystal As you can see, each crystal reflects light differently. I think it is pretty clear that Clark's maintains a truer reflected image than the MBW OEM (note the poorly focused, double-image of the lamp at the top of the OEM crystal). And whatever image distortions may exist in Clark's superdome, they are not very apparent during normal use. But considering how the Clark's crystal distorted the crosshatch pattern in the previous photos, it would be nice to see the gen superdome next to the other two for the ultimate comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo2001 Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Thanks for the pics!! I can see how the Clark enhances the color and visuals of the dial while the stock MBW seems to cloud up the image. I notice the same thing on my DRSD....and I saw a parallel change when I put a gen 127 on my WM 1680. Suddenly the dial sort of clicked into focus. The stock MBW plastic is funky...doesn't seem clear and smooth. Also quite soft and easy to scratch compared to gen acrylic I noticed...but whattaya expect, I guess. Does the Clark have the well polished look of a gen crystal? Does it catch the light and sparkle like a gen? This notion of material quality to me is more important than exact geometry. From these pics, I'd say the Clark looks fairly promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Does the Clark have the well polished look of a gen crystal? Does it catch the light and sparkle like a gen? This notion of material quality to me is more important than exact geometry. I agree about the material quality. But I would say this -- at this level (gen vs Clark), the shape and height of the crystal would be far more obvious, if there was a difference (there is not), than the material quality. As far as I can tell, there is little or no difference between the way the Clark & gen superdomes reflect light (sparkle). Keep in mind that the MBW crystal is at a disadvantage in the photos above because the printing on the aftermarket dial is noticeably crisper and cleaner (which is one of the things that I find so seductive about it - unfortunately, for me, its flaws outweigh its benefits). But without having a gen superdome in front of me, I cannot say with 100% certainty that Clark's sparkles as well as a gen. If Nanuq is still following this, he would be better able to answer that since he has both (or, at least, whichever aftermarket crystal he has appears to have the same minor defects the Clark superdome has). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo2001 Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Freddy...I hear what you are saying about the dials. It would be nice to have a crystal that would turn the MBW "SEA DWELLER" text the right color of cherry red, wouldn't it? I was looking more at the black. The spurious reflections and haziness of the stock crystal don't even do the MBW dial justice. Anyway, screw it....I'm gonna go buy a Clark and at least take that step in the right direction! Thanks for all the interesting SD discussions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Freddy...I hear what you are saying about the dials. It would be nice to have a crystal that would turn the MBW "SEA DWELLER" text the right color of cherry red, wouldn't it? I was looking more at the black. The spurious reflections and haziness of the stock crystal don't even do the MBW dial justice. Yeah, I know what you mean about the weak color of the red lettering. It sucks and is one of the reasons I bought the aftermarket dial (which I think is just a bit too red). But, on the positive side, I have seen alot of rep DRSD dials that really exaggerate the color. And since every rep part errs somewhere, it is alot better to err on the side of not having enough color than having too much. I think the black (really more like dark gray) on the MBW dial is another of its weak areas and another area where the aftermarket dial gets closer to a gen dial. The MBW black is also too smooth, whereas the black on gen dials appears slightly textured. Almost like the texture you get when paint crinkles a bit. But most of the better gen dials I have seen with a loupe have a similar texture, which the MBW lacks. I still go back and forth between the two dials, trying to figure out a way to fix the 3 glaring problems on that aftermarket dial (too narrow crown & hour markers, uneven lettering). But I think Ziggy's the only person I know who has enough artistic talent & experience to be able to even attempt to correct (repaint) those things without causing more problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Nanuq, that is exactly what I hoped you would say. Gentlemen, start your engines -- I think it is going to be a very busy (and hopefully very productive) weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 If I had to use a Clarks instead of a gen, I'd be perfectly happy with it. Well, that is a good news. And, first of all, thanks for these explanations to all of you. It's a great thread like many started by Freddy. Now, if a Clark is way cheaper, I think it's the way to go. After all, if differences are that small, how the hell could anybody else but an expert of RWG notice it ? Probably not me anyway Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Great informative thread. I was a bit worried but feel better now, considering I opted for the Clark version instead of trying to source a gen as money saved is money earned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Nanuq -- Speaking of dropping 20k on a watch, did you see this article (you might want to click the link at the top to read the first part first)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 There is something unique about the way images appear in a true superdome that you do not see in any other crystal type. If you look at the watch from the side and then slowly turn it toward you, as the crystal just reaches the cusp of your viewing angle, the entire dial suddenly appears to be floating on top of the crystal. It is quite an amazing optical illusion caused by the refraction of the light rays due to the cut of the lens. Doing the same thing with the OEM MBW or any flat crystal produces an image that appears lower down into the watch case and only after the viewing angle is more perpendicular to your eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Which is why you should not have any trouble finding buyers (at almost any price) for your Superdomes on TZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 That begs the following questions -- Did the dog get to wear the watches? Did the watches get fleas? Did the mortgage get paid? Has anyone seen my galoshes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Without seeing the T16 sitting (out of the watch) next to a T39, I have to say that it looks more like the OEM crystal that came in my WM/MBW DRSD. Similar, but with a lower profile than the T39 Superdome. Oh, and beautiful watch (I missed the forest for the trees). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 A few shots of the T-39 installed before case work was performed. This was the initial mod & by far the most worthwhile. The distortions caused by this crystal can be really something else depending on lighting and angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 You have to love a dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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