P4GTR Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I've changed my mind so many times i'm dizzy. I've been researching though, and hope to have some well formulated questions deserving of answers. I have decided that since I wear a titanium bracelet daily, a titanium pam is the way I'd like to go for the other wrist. I assume that means I am shopping model 177's. I haven't learned the difference between the 177 and the 177H, if that question is frowned upon, pretend I didn't ask. These watches come with the movement options of 6497 swiss, or asian. With or without swan neck. Now, if I want the swan neck, I need to go swiss as this option is not offered on the asian models that I know of. The question is, isn't the swiss movement really the asian movement anyways (thats what i've seen being said in searches)? If I opt to spend roughly $400 on the Swiss swan neck version, won't the movement still be obvious that it is a rep? Is having a swan neck really going to fool all those that wouldn't have been fooled otherwise? Or is this some mechanical marvel that makes the watch last a lifetime longer? Should I save myself the $125 and go with the asian movement? Source. My last issue. I've solely dealt with Jos, but I am considering going with a davidsen if it is worth my while. I am not asking you to divulge any secrets, but I am asking you to help me make an educated decision. I would like lume that actually glows and a correct cannon pin without having to send the watch back out somewhere else for modding. I am open to specific suggestions as to which model and from whom you feel would best suit me. I appreciate any advice you can offer and hope to hear some reply's that get me closer to a decision. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I can only answer a couple of your Qs cause I'm new to PAMs myself. I haven't learned the difference between the 177 and the 177H, if that question is frowned upon, pretend I didn't ask. The letter corresponds to the year the watch was made. There are different versions like F, G, etc. Not sure how much "behind the scenes" differences there are but the most obvious one is the dial. H = sandwich dial where the letters are cut out of the dial and the lume is below the face and plain 177 = sausage dial where the lume is on the dial and kind of raised off of it. With or without swan neck. Now, if I want the swan neck, I need to go swiss as this option is not offered on the asian models that I know of. The question is, isn't the swiss movement really the asian movement anyways (thats what i've seen being said in searches)? Just so you know, there is no difference in terms of functionality with the replica swan neck. There is on the gen but for the reps it's just a visual thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Thanks Jumbie. Trying to figure all of this out is fun, but sometimes frusterating with limited means to do it. Trying to find the minor differences between the H and non-H models, I miss something so obvious. Anyone else care to comment, i'll take comments, criticisms, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 -There is a large price difference between the asian and swiss version. Are they both asian made movements, and/or will they perform with the same reliability? -Going all out and getting the swiss with swan neck, are you really going to fool that many more critics, or yourself? Anyone that can tell its a rep is going to know its a rep even with the swan neck. At least thats my assumption. -The asian is $188, and has had good reviews across the board movement wise. Do I really want to spend the additional $120+ for a tiny piece of metal (swan neck) and Swiss "ETA knockoff" (Asian is Asian, right?) that will not fool anyone that wasn't already fooled by the movement to begin with? -I feel like I am having a conversation with myself. I'm considering contributing to the site (vip) but damn if I can't get a few questions answered, who's the fool then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 i just saw your thread....i think a more specific title would probably help get more viewers / answers for your questions..... i'll try to answer as many of your questions as i can.... If I opt to spend roughly $400 on the Swiss swan neck version, won't the movement still be obvious that it is a rep? Is having a swan neck really going to fool all those that wouldn't have been fooled otherwise? Or is this some mechanical marvel that makes the watch last a lifetime longer? Should I save myself the $125 and go with the asian movement? there are generally two types of people with regard to pam knowledge: i) no knowledge at all, ii) LOTS of knowledge (borderline obsessed -- this includes paneristi and rep hounds like us). whenever i show my friends my reps (who fall into camp #1), they are always amazed at the display caseback of the pams -- they wouldn't know a dagger swan neck from a rotor (all of my display caseback pams have standard 6497 asian movements w/ cortes du' whatever bridges). however, show the back of your watch to anyone who knows a lot about watches or pams (ie. paneristi), and they will immediately be able to tell that it isn't a genuine pam given the fit and finish of the movement, regardless of whether or not it has a swan neck. i've never had any trouble with my asian 6497 handwind models; for pams, i've always chosen to spend my dollars on straps instead of swiss movements (you can read here for more about my experiences in collecting reps). some people feel better having a swiss movement, and that's understandable....everyone has different thoughts on rep collecting. i believe there has been a relatively elaborate discussion about your "are the swiss movements in pams really swiss?" question -- to be honest, given my philosophy of buying asian movements in pam reps and spending the difference on straps, i've pretty much totally ignored these discussions, so i can't help much there (if you're really curious and want to know, i'd try some creative searches in the panerai section to try to find these threads). I would like lume that actually glows and a correct cannon pin without having to send the watch back out somewhere else for modding. unfortunately, if you don't want to to send your watch to be relumed, davidsen is really your only option. lots of people take issue with davidsen's fonts (they are generally not as accurate as standard reps from josh/trusty, etc) -- look at the pictures and see if it bothers you. you should also know that some of davidsen's watches have different cases compared to other reps -- i'm not sure whether this is the case on the 177h, etc. Just so you know, there is no difference in terms of functionality with the replica swan neck. There is on the gen but for the reps it's just a visual thing. once again, i don't claim to be an expert on swiss movements in pam reps, but i am pretty sure there are versions of the swan neck regulator that do have a functional screw that will "regulate" the movement. you should be able to confirm this in old threads as well. i hope this helps; i think you'll find the membership here to be helpful -- you clearly have done some meaningful research to pose the questions in your thread. good luck with your decision; feel free to respond with any other questions you may have.... deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 i just saw your thread....i think a more specific title would probably help get more viewers / answers for your questions..... i'll try to answer as many of your questions as i can.... there are generally two types of people with regard to pam knowledge: i) no knowledge at all, ii) LOTS of knowledge (borderline obsessed -- this includes paneristi and rep hounds like us). whenever i show my friends my reps (who fall into camp #1), they are always amazed at the display caseback of the pams -- they wouldn't know a dagger swan neck from a rotor (all of my display caseback pams have standard 6497 asian movements w/ cortes du' whatever bridges). however, show the back of your watch to anyone who knows a lot about watches or pams (ie. paneristi), and they will immediately be able to tell that it isn't a genuine pam given the fit and finish of the movement, regardless of whether or not it has a swan neck. i've never had any trouble with my asian 6497 handwind models; for pams, i've always chosen to spend my dollars on straps instead of swiss movements (you can read here for more about my experiences in collecting reps). some people feel better having a swiss movement, and that's understandable....everyone has different thoughts on rep collecting. i believe there has been a relatively elaborate discussion about your "are the swiss movements in pams really swiss?" question -- to be honest, given my philosophy of buying asian movements in pam reps and spending the difference on straps, i've pretty much totally ignored these discussions, so i can't help much there (if you're really curious and want to know, i'd try some creative searches in the panerai section to try to find these threads). unfortunately, if you don't want to to send your watch to be relumed, davidsen is really your only option. lots of people take issue with davidsen's fonts (they are generally not as accurate as standard reps from josh/trusty, etc) -- look at the pictures and see if it bothers you. you should also know that some of davidsen's watches have different cases compared to other reps -- i'm not sure whether this is the case on the 177h, etc. once again, i don't claim to be an expert on swiss movements in pam reps, but i am pretty sure there are versions of the swan neck regulator that do have a functional screw that will "regulate" the movement. you should be able to confirm this in old threads as well. i hope this helps; i think you'll find the membership here to be helpful -- you clearly have done some meaningful research to pose the questions in your thread. good luck with your decision; feel free to respond with any other questions you may have.... deltatahoe You've settled it. Can't tell you how appreciative I am for the reply's. Pam 177H Asian 6497 from Jos will go down soon. Then some bob or hktan action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 You Just missed a 177 from TTK for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlydog Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 You Just missed a 177 from TTK for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 You Just missed a 177 from TTK for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 BTW i have a UNWORN PAM PVD with carbon dial and old GENUINE swiss Unitas (without personal panerai bridges) + sapphire... and will post them soon on trade section cheers tourby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 I took another week or two to learn more and make a decision. I've ordered a asian 177H from Josh. Figured this is a good place to start and see how I like Pam's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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