docblackrock Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Received a nice little catalogue yesterday - some associated info and pics below thought I'd share Question is whilst you have to ackowledge and admire the shift towards inhouse movts and required investment and craftmanship to do so, I must admit the resulting design of the production models leaves me...well a little cold. Some very 'busy' layouts and awkward indicators, and a significant step away from their classic looks. I really like the PAM270 which essentially is a 44mm Fiddy-cased 10 Days GMT with date (no cyclops looks good) except that horrible PR gauge and AM/PM indicator just ruin it Hopefully they will make a 289 (8-day GMT - picture 6) but in SS instead of pink gold I suppose evolution is inevitable, just that it will take some getting used to. Movts. P.2002 - 8 Days GMT; manual winding P.2003 - 10 Days GMT; automatic winding P.2004 - 8 Days GMT Chrono Monopulsante; manual winding P.2005 - 6 Days GMT Tourbillon; manual winding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 this new in-house movements looks a little bit plain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Well, I would probably give a hand and an eye to have one of them. I find them much much more appealing that all those Ferrari models... BTW, thanks for the pics, rock (or doc)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Well, I would probably give a hand and an eye to have one of them. I find them much much more appealing that all those Ferrari models... BTW, thanks for the pics, rock (or doc)! You're welcome, and Doc is fine I agree - the Ferrari project is just a marketing exercise IMO - the Manifatture range is where it's really at, horologically-speaking. I also think the new movements have a certain elegance to them, not just in terms of the understated decoration on the bridge plates ("plain" to some), but also the mechanisms such as the tourby cage. What I don't understand though and therefore annoys me is that despite these impressive movements, and use of say, a 44mm 1950 case ( ), they then go and balls it up dial-side with some really cheap and nasty looking features, such as the power reserve and meridian indicators. Why??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rag9fx Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 these were featured in QP a little while ago under in an article entitled 'Bonati's Brain Box' the prototype was Radiomir cased ... i have to say i like the linear PR and the GMT functions .... they don't look cheap to me- perhaps it maybe too cluttered but i think it works out fine ... unlike the Rollie YM II which looks like a toy... I will be happy boy when they figure out how to rep these ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 What I don't understand though and therefore annoys me is that despite these impressive movements, and use of say, a 44mm 1950 case ( ), they then go and balls it up dial-side with some really cheap and nasty looking features, such as the power reserve and meridian indicators. Why??? I am afraid I am missing what you mean as 'meridian indicators'. Is it the GMT function, by chance? In this case I agree with you, I too feel it a cluttering and unneeded feature, but I bet many other people would want it and I can understand them. To me, even less needed is the AM/PM feature (how many people live in a cavern?). But as for many other features, personally those models are my dream: - I love the sandwich dial, but I also absolutely need the date. Contrarily from former models, these have sandwich dial and date window. - I am a lazy guy and I prefer auto movements to manual. But actually I am so lazy that even auto movements go out of charge on my wrist. So a PR indicator is my favourite complication. - And about their cases, I heartily agree with you Maybe OP just overwhelmed those watches with feature because of: keeping their price high; encountering the needs of a differentiated market; showing some technique exercises; making the life of reppers harder... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 PAM235 is the most beautiful IMHO... radiomir, 10days pr, date, GMT... sheer beauty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I am afraid I am missing what you mean as 'meridian indicators'. Is it the GMT function, by chance? Nope, meridian as in the m in AM/PM But I agree....weird. As is the blue dot on the sub-seconds on the Tourbillon - assume it rotates proportional to the movement of the Tourby itself, and independent of the second hand? Personally, I'd have the 10-day GMT in a flash - it's not so much the linear form of the PR that bothers me, more the aesthetics of the clumsy-looking indicator At least it's on the front this time, unlike the 'old' eight-day movt, but I can't believe they couldn't have made it look more elegant. Still I get to see/try the watch in the flesh next week so I'll let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 while i appreciate the idea of the in house movements the new models do leave me cold... IMHO the essence of the pam is the simple and elegant design. that's probably why my vintage base gets alot more wear than my 036 i don't have anything against busy watches. i think the UN freak is stunning, as an example! i do think it is kind of humorous how the tourby has become the 'flavor of the month' in watch complications. it seemed like every manufacturer just had to show a basic tool/divers/sport watch at basil this year with a tourbillion? most just seemed silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Question is whilst you have to ackowledge and admire the shift towards inhouse movts and required investment and craftmanship to do so, I must admit the resulting design of the production models leaves me...well a little cold. Some very 'busy' layouts and awkward indicators, and a significant step away from their classic looks. while i appreciate the idea of the in house movements the new models do leave me cold...IMHO the essence of the pam is the simple and elegant design. Hmmm, great minds think alike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 +1 for thinking alike although I make no claim to a great mind. I don't much care for them. I like the simplistic look of the base PAMs the most; particularly the 112 or 176. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 The in house movement was inevitable.. It was getting pretty tough to justify the prices for what were really base eta movements with some simple decoration. The internet watch community were starting to ask tough questions about the value especially with the super high quality rep's appearing. The new designs don't do much for me though, the complicated dials are looking more and more like a hundred other brands every day and are loosing what made Panerai unique. As for the sliding power reserve...Yuck... I pick we're seeing the end of Panerai as the "in" brand and they'll end up just another model in the show rooms within the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rag9fx Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 as much as many disagree with me but i believe the PAM craze has been and gone... the oversize watch market has been super-saturated ... in so far as PAM with thier oversized novelty are not as unique as they once were... Panerai is probably trying to address the desires y demand of thier core and dependable market (hardcore -gen- watch collectors)with coming out with in house movements and complications ... seriously what is the point of just owning another ETA powered watch - at the end of the day there is nothing special about that.... in comparsion to turbillions and the like In the same respect that doesn't make them bad watches for collectors or enthusiast alike... i would still own one even if it wasn't "trendy" simply because i like thier design... so YAY foe OP for developing thier own movment every "proper " prestige Marque does { have in house movments} ... i think this is a good thing esp for brand that has such a following Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 In the same respect that doesn't make them bad watches for collectors or enthusiast alike... i would still own one even if it wasn't "trendy" simply because i like thier design... so YAY foe OP for developing thier own movment every "proper " prestige Marque does { have in house movments} ... i think this is a good thing esp for brand that has such a following I agree 100% - this is a clear move by OP signalling their future marketing strategy, although one they've been planning for a long time, well before the ETA and 'style over substance' whisperings began. Let the trend 'sheep' move on elsewhere I'll be interested to see what happens over the next year or two though - hopefully some of the "quirkier/uglier" dial features will disappear or be smoothed over and we'll see some truly great watches I'm 99% certain I'll buy a gen in the same next year or two, and I'm also 99% certain it will be from the Manifatture range - I don't see the 'value' in buying a base, not that I'm dismissive of people who do. Horses for courses.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I love the look of the new movements; very business-like. The Nibbler's Fang PR bugs me though. Why ruin the elegant rear view with a clumsy front? Are we supposed to wear them back-to-front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 ps. No comments/info on the new springbar design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I love the look of the new movements; very business-like. The Nibbler's Fang PR bugs me though. Why ruin the elegant rear view with a clumsy front? Are we supposed to wear them back-to-front? "Nibbler's Fang" - was trying to think of a suitable visual description but that's inspired! I know, god knows why they come up with such an inelegant design having decided to put the PR dial-side? The old eight day movt. had a standard 'leaf' hand on the backside (pointless for a PR I know) but at least it looked like it belonged there. As for the new springbars, I've yet to see them in person or pics but they are just one of a number of anti-counterfeit measures Panerai have taken... - Panerai metal bracelets will no longer have screws on each link. - All 44mm Luminors are going to have the new push-pin strap change system. - All Luminor cases are now more shock resistant. There are no screws that attach the movement to the case anymore, and these screws are now replaced with rings and gaskets. - "Runner" on crown lever now. This "runner" is a ball at the base of the lever which rolls back and forth on the crown. This allows for easier closing and opening of the lever. - On the inside of all Panerai deployant buckles, there will be "Panerai" raised lettering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwinner Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) PAM235 is the most beautiful IMHO... radiomir, 10days pr, date, GMT... sheer beauty Totally agree yellowman! Waiting for the first rep to show up for this beauty! I guess this one even deserves another post!!! Edited July 19, 2007 by erwinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I know, god knows why they come up with such an inelegant design having decided to put the PR dial-side? The old eight day movt. had a standard 'leaf' hand on the backside (pointless for a PR I know) but at least it looked like it belonged there. i saw one of these in person last weekend at my local AD....it was the panerai gmt 8 days power reserve model w/ date (phew!!! that was a mouthful); i have to agree with you guys -- there was way too much going on with the dial.... definitely a cool looking movement from the back though -- i personally like the look of the new in-house movements.... deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwinner Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 ok, ok, I guess you're right on a too confusing dial. Simplicity was what made Panerai stand out from the crowd in the fist place wasn't is? For those of you who want to know more about the new movements, read: http://basel.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-363676/ It's a great summary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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