predfan2001 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 I have been trying to get a "fair" quality nodate Sub. for months now and still I'm coming up dry. After much thought, I ordered a modern ETA 14060 rep. that looked "close enough" on the sellers webpage. The pics showed the case having lug holes, the correct hollow end link band and a nice 14060M dial. When I received it, it had no lug holes in the case, a modern sel band and western fonts for the "Oyster Perpetual". It's based on the rep models that have the movement sitting low in the case which sits the crown low to give a better rehaut. The rehaut is conical of course. I almost threw up when I saw it. The seller is telling me that it is correct, all of the new 14060s have no lug holes and sel band. Never the less I'm returning it because I would never wear such a hidious watch in public. The seller is telling me he'll give me an exchange, but I don't even know what I would want to exchange it for. I'm hearing now that the vintage nodate may no longer be available. My main objectives are a decent appearing nodate Sub and it must have an oyster band. The only option I can think of is to get a 5517 (because it appears to have a nice dial and fonts) and swap the movement into a like vintage case with an oyster band. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Every commercially made rep contains one or more inaccuracies, sometimes they can be glaring mistakes. And in the case of modern Rolex reps, they can be all the more obvious since you can walk into any Rolex AD and be reminded of how 'off' even the best commercial reps are. I am not a big fan of modern Subs Seadwellers and I do not know who you purchased your disappointing watch from, but I would recommend that you do a bit more reading of the current and recent Sub threads as there appear to be a number of promising items according to other members who are more knowledgeable on the modern lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted June 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) Reading and research were not the issue here. I know reps and I know gens. I understood that I was ordering a "fair at best" replica (but the short comings could be improved). Instead I received a very poor, non-production replica. Remember the seller is justifing it by telling me that all modern 14060s have sel bands and no lug holes in the case. They don't! Everybody that keeps saying this only knows date models. The 14060 has changed once since the 5513, that was the 14060M which has an improved movement and a slightly different dial. It's a virtually unchanged classic. A victim of bait and switch? Now I have to worry about sending a watch half way around the world and just hoping the seller receives it. And as I said, if he does receive it, I'm not even sure what to exchange for. Edited June 23, 2007 by predfan2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Without knowing who you bought the watch from, I cannot say whether it was bait and switch or just a case of a rep factory changing specs on a drop-shipping seller who may never have been informed of the change by the factory (or he may have been out of stock and sent what he felt was a similar watch). If you bought the watch from one of the collectors here and you sent him comparison photos of the watch from HIS website and photos of the watch you received (I would circle in red the items that differ from the watch pictured on HIS website), I am sure he will either swap it for the correct watch or refund your purchase. If he is not willing to do that, there is a Trade Review forum to post your experience to the rest of the members. But I would only post after you have exhausted all the reasonable options dealing directly with the seller. And, yes, you will probably have to eat the cost of return shipping. Be sure to follow the seller's instructions to help avoid additional headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted June 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) Without knowing who you bought the watch from, I cannot say whether it was bait and switch or just a case of a rep factory changing specs on a drop-shipping seller who may never have been informed of the change by the factory (or he may have been out of stock and sent what he felt was a similar watch). If you bought the watch from one of the collectors here and you sent him comparison photos of the watch from HIS website and photos of the watch you received (I would circle in red the items that differ from the watch pictured on HIS website), I am sure he will either swap it for the correct watch or refund your purchase. If he is not willing to do that, there is a Trade Review forum to post your experience to the rest of the members. But I would only post after you have exhausted all the reasonable options dealing directly with the seller. And, yes, you will probably have to eat the cost of return shipping. Be sure to follow the seller's instructions to help avoid additional headaches. Your exactly right. I don't want to slam him because he is a "collector" here and he has always treated me right in the past. He claims he doesn't drop ship and inspects all items. I will give him every opportunity to correct this. I do understand that suppliers and products change, it's just that the website should be updated when this happens. All of us here survey an item closely before we purchase it. As I said before, I had thought about this item for awhile and had it been the item pictured, I'd have no complaints. If I listed a Corvette on eBay and then delivered a Mustang when it sold, I don't think "that item is no longer available, this is the replacement" would work. Edited June 24, 2007 by predfan2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 If this watch is from one of the collectors that state they hand inspect each watch sent out, I can see your point. In that case, it would seem to me that they should either exchange the watch for the correct one (at their expense) or refund your entire purchase price. I would love to hear the reason from the seller for the mistaken shipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 I have been trying to get a "fair" quality nodate Sub. for months now and still I'm coming up dry. After much thought, I ordered a modern ETA 14060 rep. that looked "close enough" on the sellers webpage. The pics showed the case having lug holes, the correct hollow end link band and a nice 14060M dial. When I received it, it had no lug holes in the case, a modern sel band and western fonts for the "Oyster Perpetual". It's based on the rep models that have the movement sitting low in the case which sits the crown low to give a better rehaut. The rehaut is conical of course. I almost threw up when I saw it. The seller is telling me that it is correct, all of the new 14060s have no lug holes and sel band. Never the less I'm returning it because I would never wear such a hidious watch in public. The seller is telling me he'll give me an exchange, but I don't even know what I would want to exchange it for. I'm hearing now that the vintage nodate may no longer be available. My main objectives are a decent appearing nodate Sub and it must have an oyster band. The only option I can think of is to get a 5517 (because it appears to have a nice dial and fonts) and swap the movement into a like vintage case with an oyster band. Any ideas? Have you actually returned it yet? If it was just a case of needing a different dial, I'd suggest contacting ClasicWatchParts and getting one of their dials (or even custom ordering the one you want) If I remember, they're $150 a pop... Having re-read your comment though, if the rehaut is unacceptable, then by all means send the watch back, and you should indeed 'name and shame' the 'collector', so others can take note when deciding who to buy from. Best of luck with a solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Have you actually returned it yet? If it was just a case of needing a different dial, I'd suggest contacting ClasicWatchParts and getting one of their dials (or even custom ordering the one you want) If I remember, they're $150 a pop... Having re-read your comment though, if the rehaut is unacceptable, then by all means send the watch back, and you should indeed 'name and shame' the 'collector', so others can take note when deciding who to buy from. Best of luck with a solution A re-dial wouldn't help this watch. That's only one issue. The case still has no lugholes, the band is a modern style sel and the rehaut is way too conical. I believe this is the same watch in a prior post (from a different collector) 14060 post here I would rather have a refund, but I don't see that happening. I just have to make up my mind on what rep to exchange this gem for. I'm about to start likeing Omegas better again. Edited June 24, 2007 by predfan2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Well I just got a message saying the replacement is already on the way via EMS. I chose the Steve McQueen 1655 Explorer. I'll never wear it I'm sure, I just like the looks of it. I had an asian movement 1655 that I practiced disassembly and mods on. The more I looked at it, the more I liked it. So the hunt continues. About 3 of our collectors have the same 14060 pics listed on their websites. I'm gonna message them to see which 14060 they actually sell. If any still sell the model pictured, I may order one unless someone advises me of a better option for a nodate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 A re-dial wouldn't help this watch. That's only one issue. The case still has no lugholes, the band is a modern style sel and the rehaut is way too conical. If the rehaut's the main issue, not really much that can be done about that... lugholes can always be drilled, bracelets can always be swapped, as can the dials, but nothing you can do about the rehauts... Might it do as project watch or a 'yardwork' beater? I would rather have a refund, but I don't see that happening. I just have to make up my mind on what rep to exchange this gem for. Depending on what you have, how about trying something completely different? I'm thinking of getting a white VC Overseas in the near future as a dress watch. I know it'll just collect dust and hardly get worn, but I think it'd be a nice addition to the collection I'm about to start likeing Omegas better again. As much as I'm looking forward to making my two Rolex project watches, Omega are without a doubt my favorites. I now have five Omegas (of which only two actually work) with the sixth on order, and a seventh planned project. I have: 'Canal street quality' 2531.80 Project Watch (damaged movement) 42mm Planet Ocean black bezel on rubber (dead movement, will be donor for hands for planned project) 42mm Planet Ocean orange bezel on SS Bracelet (dead movement) 2531.80 SMP (Under repair... Movement now works, but watch is being waterproofed, should have it back by the end of the week) 45mm Planet Ocean black bezel on rubber (working fine, on my wrist as I type, but, when the SMP is returned, I will be taking it in for regulation and waterproofing) SpeedMaster Professional X-33 (On order. Should arrive within the week, as dealer said they use express shipping) Planned Project: Aqua Terra with black dial. Plans to replace hands for 42mm Planet Ocean hands, and swap SS Bracelet for Croc strap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Well I just got a message saying the replacement is already on the way via EMS. I chose the Steve McQueen 1655 Explorer. I'll never wear it I'm sure, I just like the looks of it. I had an asian movement 1655 that I practiced disassembly and mods on. The more I looked at it, the more I liked it. So the hunt continues. About 3 of our collectors have the same 14060 pics listed on their websites. I'm gonna message them to see which 14060 they actually sell. If any still sell the model pictured, I may order one unless someone advises me of a better option for a nodate. You beat me to it by 3 minutes That'll teach me to write long posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Why not go for a vintage 5513? The one pictured above on top of my "Sub"-ramid has been with me the longest. It started as a Gilt dial and I modded the case, CG's, added an aftermarket Gen style bezel assembly, Gen Crown, tube and gaskets, a vintage rep rivet bracelet with Gen spring bars, a Clark superdome crystal and I re-lumed the dial and hands. Pm me if you would entertain buying it as I have a Gen 5512/5513 Gilt dial that I am raising funds to by a Gen 1520 movement. Anyway, good luck in your search. I have a Gen 14060M (bottom center) and I hardly wear it. I much prefer the acrylic vintage pieces. Regards, Kurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Why not go for a vintage 5513? The one pictured above on top of my "Sub"-ramid has been with me the longest. It started as a Gilt dial and I modded the case, CG's, added an aftermarket Gen style bezel assembly, Gen Crown, tube and gaskets, a vintage rep rivet bracelet with Gen spring bars, a Clark superdome crystal and I re-lumed the dial and hands. Pm me if you would entertain buying it as I have a Gen 5512/5513 Gilt dial that I am raising funds to by a Gen 1520 movement. Anyway, good luck in your search. I have a Gen 14060M (bottom center) and I hardly wear it. I much prefer the acrylic vintage pieces. Regards, Kurt. Believe me, I'd much rather have a 5513 with a plexi crystal. I had one of the last year models of the 5513 made many years ago but damaged it really bad. Traded it for the SS Datejust I have now. I miss that watch and that's the whole reason I'm so obsessed with getting a nodate replica (a gen is not in the budget). I have had date models but they just don't fill the void. I had an old 5513 dial but sold it once I found out it would most likely only fit a MBW case. As far as mod'ing, I know my limits. Pulling a movement, crystal replacement and case/cg mods are about as much as I feel comfortable with. I've pulled hands a few times and had no luck. Either the movement was dead afterwards or I couldn't get the second hand back on. I don't want perfection, just a nodate to pacify my sentimental attachments. Right now the best plan I can come up with is to get a cn 5517 rep because it appears to have a pretty nice dial. Pull the movement and put it into a case that accepts a bracelet (if I can find a used cn sub case). If anybody has any better ideas, please let me know. Good to hear from you Kurt. I used to have a good friend that worked at Lexus of Cool Springs near you. He had many famous clients in the country music industry and I used to sell gens though him to several country stars. C ya! Edited June 24, 2007 by predfan2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Ok, before I dive in again here's one last question. This is a generic photo used by several collectors. I have found a collector that claims to still have this very watch for sale. Has anybody actually purchased one of these and if so, how was the overall quality. I know the cgs need alot of work but all and all, it looks ok to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyp1 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) Why not go for a vintage 5513? The one pictured above on top of my "Sub"-ramid has been with me the longest. It started as a Gilt dial and I modded the case, CG's, added an aftermarket Gen style bezel assembly, Gen Crown, tube and gaskets, a vintage rep rivet bracelet with Gen spring bars, a Clark superdome crystal and I re-lumed the dial and hands. Pm me if you would entertain buying it as I have a Gen 5512/5513 Gilt dial that I am raising funds to by a Gen 1520 movement. Anyway, good luck in your search. I have a Gen 14060M (bottom center) and I hardly wear it. I much prefer the acrylic vintage pieces. Regards, Kurt. Umm.... WOW! Edited June 27, 2007 by tonyp1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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