What country has the best Special Forces/Special Operation in the world

[slay]

HAHAHA Are you guys serious. The ANSWER is china all the way. China is the next great super power of the world. Why do you think Americans are so afraid of everything they see the chinese do. The chinese army has about 350 million people (thats more than the american population!!) and the america army only has a mere 1 million people. And the chinese economy will be the most strongest as well.

hey turkish man, maybe YOU should read about the spartands and maybe then you REALIZE that quality goes WAY over quantity.

but i'm following my own advice and i'm not even gonna start arguing with an extremist like you!

[Bansenshukai]

The question offered in this topic is unanswerable.

I have personally worked with five different special operations organizations from around the world and the Australians and Canadians stand out, as well as our own SOF (but I'm in the latter organization so I'm biased, of course). I have made that personal assessment from experience in combat overseas and not on Discovery Channel specials, or Hollywood films.

The question is one of capability and application. And, honestly, all SOF worldwide have had moments of catastrophic failure, even the Israeli SOF - it is a matter of how open the country is and how much it reveals to the media. Also, the Mossad is an intelligence gathering organization and, like many others, may have a "direct action" arm, or may task a DA mission to other capable forces within its military SOF branches. However, the publicly acknowledged Israeli SOF is comprised of Sayeret Matkal, Sayeret Golani, Sarayet Shaldat and Sarayet 13, for example. All these units have a reconnaissance aspect to them, as well as "direct action" capabilities. Then, of course, there are units that are not known on any media and perform amazing tasks - nearly every well-developed military have units such as these.

Also, the premier US elite counter-terrorist unit (referred to here by a name that is no longer used by that organization) does not draw the best personnel from every branch of service; it is strictly a US Army unit. If an applicant wants to join, and he is from another branch of service, even another branch

Edited July 13, 2008 by Nouns Defions

[ratchpot]

I have personally worked with five different special operations organizations from around the world and the Australians and Canadians stand out, as well as our own SOF (but I'm in the latter organization so I'm biased, of course).

I think we may have served together - I was part of the special ops team that helped Austin Powers take out Dr Evil. I was also offered Secret Service Presidential Protective Detail, but I let Clint Eastwood have it because he was slightly better qualified (he's also been a cowboy and a cop).

[slay]

dunno if it fits the topic, BUT the BEST Special Forces when it comes to drinking is DEFINITELY the german KSK... i think one of their generals or majors came drunk to an allie meeting with the brits, americans and french once... they were complaining because he smelled like he had a get-together with boris jelzin

[strattakan]

What about fighting using AR-15 against some AK in 15 meters of distance?

Or using a 7,62mm in the middle of the streets?

another one

BOPE

[Dani]

I think we may have served together - I was part of the special ops team that helped Austin Powers take out Dr Evil. I was also offered Secret Service Presidential Protective Detail, but I let Clint Eastwood have it because he was slightly better qualified (he's also been a cowboy and a cop).

:lol:

[Bansenshukai]

I think we may have served together - I was part of the special ops team that helped Austin Powers take out Dr Evil. I was also offered Secret Service Presidential Protective Detail, but I let Clint Eastwood have it because he was slightly better qualified (he's also been a cowboy and a cop).

That was an awesome post!!! LOL

[highoeyazmuhudee]

my vote goes to US and the UK

[abat]

I think we may have served together - I was part of the special ops team that helped Austin Powers take out Dr Evil. I was also offered Secret Service Presidential Protective Detail, but I let Clint Eastwood have it because he was slightly better qualified (he's also been a cowboy and a cop).

I don't know about the best special forces but that is the best reply in this thread.

[Nex_necO]

Nuff said!

[guanaco]

What about fighting using AR-15 against some AK in 15 meters of distance?

Or using a 7,62mm in the middle of the streets?

another one

BOPE

??? A 5.56mm round is just as deadly as a 7.62mm round, it's not all about the bullet caliber it's how well you aim and where you manage to shoot your opponent.

Take the U.S. Forces in Iraq for example, they're kicking ass with the M4/M16 over the AK's/G3/FAL the insurgents are using.

[slay]

??? A 5.56mm round is just as deadly as a 7.62mm round, it's not all about the bullet caliber it's how well you aim and where you manage to shoot your opponent.

Take the U.S. Forces in Iraq for example, they're kicking ass with the M4/M16 over the AK's/G3/FAL the insurgents are using.

Have you ever shot 7.62mm? I can saw a leg off with our 7.62 machine gun! it was so feared among americans, they called it "hitler's bonesaw"

"So distinct and terrifying was the weapon, that the United States Army created training films to aid its soldiers in dealing with the psychological trauma of facing the weapon in battle."

Some rounds are more deadly than others, because some shoot right through the body and some break and the parts "swirl" around in your body and mess up all your internals.

Edited July 14, 2008 by slay

[guanaco]

Have you ever shot 7.62mm? I can saw a leg off with our 7.62 machine gun! it was so feared among americans, they called it "hitler's bonesaw"

"So distinct and terrifying was the weapon, that the United States Army created training films to aid its soldiers in dealing with the psychological trauma of facing the weapon in battle."

The feared Maschinengewehr 42 , is that the one you're talking about? I think it uses a 7.92mm cartridge though. I've shot a deer with an Arsenal AK [sLR-107] and it left a nice ''clean'' hole [if you don't count all the blood ], I won't argue over that bullet, it's damn powerful compared to the 5.56mm, I'm just saying either one of those calibers [5.56 & 7.62] are equally deadly and I definitely wouldn't enjoy getting hit by neither one of them [or any bullet while at it]!

[JohnG]

The chinese army has about 350 million people.

Dude you have been smoking crack. A LOT of crack.

I can

[slay]

Dude you have been smoking crack. A LOT of crack.

I can

[Alextor]

I think we may have served together - I was part of the special ops team that helped Austin Powers take out Dr Evil. I was also offered Secret Service Presidential Protective Detail, but I let Clint Eastwood have it because he was slightly better qualified (he's also been a cowboy and a cop).

This is one of the most hilarious posts I have read in a while!!!

Cheers

Alex

PS: The paraguayan special ops are among the best...when they are sober

[Bansenshukai]

This is one of the most hilarious posts I have read in a while!!!

Cheers

Alex

PS: The paraguayan special ops are among the best...when they are sober

The Paraguayan Special Troops Battalion (their "Special Forces") is roughly equivalent to a light infantry battalion from either the US or the UK. However, their capability is poor; but, not poorer than the ability of their leadership to implement them properly. Most of their equipment is in disrepair and whatever money is allocated to them via the Paraguayan Congressional funding is usually misappropriated to the point that nearly nothing makes it to the men. Even worse is their skills retention. When their soldiers are trained by partner nations, say the Brazilian Special Forces (and, honestly, Brazil has a top-notch SOF program), the skills they attain are not retained for more than six months to a year. By then, the personnel are dispersed to other units and the training investment usually generates no significant return. I never really noticed a particular drinking problem in the unit. But, worse than that, their soldiers are more adept at landscaping their generals' office lawns than shooting their Chinese copy of the M-16 rifle.

[Jawo]

How about a Special Forces Olympics? A new reality TV show.

[Fish]

The feared Maschinengewehr 42 , is that the one you're talking about? I think it uses a 7.92mm cartridge though. I've shot a deer with an Arsenal AK [sLR-107] and it left a nice ''clean'' hole [if you don't count all the blood ], I won't argue over that bullet, it's damn powerful compared to the 5.56mm, I'm just saying either one of those calibers [5.56 & 7.62] are equally deadly and I definitely wouldn't enjoy getting hit by neither one of them [or any bullet while at it]!

The Mg 42 used the caliber 8x57. It was followed by the MG3 that is based on the same desigh but converted to NATO caliber 7,62 which is same as .308 Winchester. And yes, that one is designed to do ugly things.

However, an assault rifle is usually designed for a certain purpose nd a certain way of use. The M16 is rather light and handy while the HK G3 is heaviy but much more efficient on longer distances. The AK47 by the way is based on the desigh of the german Sturmgewehr 44 (assault riffle designed in 1944) which furtunately never seriously came into use and was limited to airborne units due to low production numbers.

By the way, do you know of the MDW? This is the German military "Material destroying weapon", a 20mm tactical snier rifle for use against lightly armored vehicles and aircrafts.

However, it seems like we

Edited July 15, 2008 by Fish

[JohnG]

But, worse than that, their soldiers are more adept at landscaping their generals' office lawns than shooting their Chinese copy of the M-16 rifle.

There is a Chinese rep of the M-16? Cool!

PICS!!!!

[guanaco]

There is a Chinese rep of the M-16? Cool!

PICS!!!!

Actually they're licensed copies, I had an old book that showed the M16 is manufactured in a lot of countries, lots of pictures of the different receivers, each in the countries language, China is one of them.

[guanaco]

The Mg 42 used the caliber 8x57. It was followed by the MG3 that is based on the same desigh but converted to NATO caliber 7,62 which is same as .308 Winchester. And yes, that one is designed to do ugly things.

However, an assault rifle is usually designed for a certain purpose nd a certain way of use. The M16 is rather light and handy while the HK G3 is heaviy but much more efficient on longer distances. The AK47 by the way is based on the desigh of the german Sturmgewehr 44 (assault riffle designed in 1944) which furtunately never seriously came into use and was limited to airborne units due to low production numbers.

By the way, do you know of the MDW? This is the German military "Material destroying weapon", a 20mm tactical snier rifle for use against lightly armored vehicles and aircrafts.

WRONG.

MG-42:

Caliber: 7.92x57

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg33-e.htm

The M16 is rather light and handy while the HK G3 is heaviy but much more efficient on longer distances.

Wrong again!

G3's effective range [G3A3]: 500m

M16A2's effective range: 550m

If it were up to me I'd go with a G36 [standard], it's lightweight, extremely reliable, and has an effective range of 800m! It's also SEXY!

god knows I love H&K!

[slay]

WRONG.

MG-42:

Caliber: 7.92x57

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg33-e.htm

Not wrong, 7,92x57mm is the same as 8x57IS.

The 1905 pattern cartridge was the German service cartridge in both World Wars and is now known in Europe as the 7.92x57mm IS or the 8x57mm IS and in the USA as the 8 mm Mauser or 8x57mm JS (it was its widespread use in Mauser rifles that earned this cartridge its "Mauser" tag, though Mauser only chambered it in its rifles and did not develop the cartridge).

Wrong again!

G3's effective range [G3A3]: 500m

M16A2's effective range: 550m

Now you are comparing what the book sais to real life experience? I can assure you, noone except a trained sharpshooter will hit a man-sized target on 550m distance with the regular M16/G3 sight.

Effective range is not only determined by the caliber, its also determined by the sight you use. And both weapons lack a proper sight for combat beyond 200m

If it were up to me I'd go with a G36 [standard], it's lightweight, extremely reliable, and has an effective range of 800m! It's also SEXY!

god knows I love H&K!

Never ever does this weapon have an effective range of 800m! I was trained with that rifle and the effective range is 400m and not more (with the integrated scope). Of course, you might hit something at 800m (I once hit a moving man-sized target), but its very very unlikely.

When you#re in the infrantry, they ALWAYS teach you to never ever shoot at such a high distance. 200-300m is the best distance with strandard infantry assault rifles.

The Arctic Warfare Magnum has an effective range of about 800-900m and thats a sniper rifle! But no

[Fish]

What I wanted to point out is that the M16 and the G3 are designed for different combat scenarios. The G3 will punch a hole in a 10mm steel plate from 200m distance and it could break a cast-iron or aluminum engine block on the same distance. Try that with 5,56 Remington! The G3 is a weapon designed for open areas while the M16 is more practical for closer distances man to man combat due to its weight and handyness.

If you compare the G36 or a Steyr AUG with a design from the 1960s (M16) or the 1970s (G3) there are 2 different worlds, they just don

Edited July 15, 2008 by Fish

[guanaco]

Not wrong, 7,92x57mm is the same as 8x57IS.

The 1905 pattern cartridge was the German service cartridge in both World Wars and is now known in Europe as the 7.92x57mm IS or the 8x57mm IS and in the USA as the 8 mm Mauser or 8x57mm JS (it was its widespread use in Mauser rifles that earned this cartridge its "Mauser" tag, though Mauser only chambered it in its rifles and did not develop the cartridge).

Ok you got me on that one, same cartridge. Different head though.

Now you are comparing what the book says to real life experience? I can assure you, noone except a trained sharpshooter will hit a man-sized target on 550m distance with the regular M16/G3 sight.

Effective range is not only determined by the caliber, its also determined by the sight you use. And both weapons lack a proper sight for combat beyond 200m

Why are you taking this so personal? lol, you're waaaay too serious on this. I'm merely posting the effective range on what the Manufacturer states so, whatever.

Never ever does this weapon have an effective range of 800m! I was trained with that rifle and the effective range is 400m and not more (with the integrated scope). Of course, you might hit something at 800m (I once hit a moving man-sized target), but its very very unlikely.

When you#re in the infrantry, they ALWAYS teach you to never ever shoot at such a high distance. 200-300m is the best distance with strandard infantry assault rifles.

The Arctic Warfare Magnum has an effective range of about 800-900m and thats a sniper rifle! But no

Again, you're taking it too personal . Effective range doesn't mean much unless it's int he right hands, and that's what matters the most, I'm simply quoting what H&K says, if it doesn't well too bad, combats are engaged usually less than 200m on each side, usually, everything is so variable, wind can drastically change everything on the bullets trajectory and damage, so meh. Also the Barrett M82A1 has an effective range of 1,000m but it's what the manufacturer states, again, too many variables, but on perfect conditions it would be possible. So meh, whatever.