Has anyone heard from Joe

[warburg]

The point I am getting impressed upon me from those waiting is simply this:

Whatever the whole story is - it doesn't change the experience of those who are brave enough to stand up and state their concerns here. What is unfortunate is that people are scared to step up and ask questions, without the fear of being flamed from here to kingdome come...

I have never understood this mentality, if we cant' ask questions and get answers, then what's the point. No one is above common courtesy and openess...yet some get jumped on if they dare ask a question about certain members....strange...

Trust is earned based on performance and ability to stand by your word, not by how many posts you have, or how long you have been on the forum...

RG

I don't think most of us are afraid of being flamed, but we don't want to damage the reputation of a person who has always been honest and reliable and is now ill. Nevertheless, we seem to agree that better communication from Joe is in order.

[vmena]

I'm with you @warburg. On one hand it's too much time for some of us waiting... on the other hand, Joe's reputation still talk for him. I'm sure he will "come back" soon.

[RWG Technical]

I don't think most of us are afraid of being flamed, but we don't want to damage the reputation of a person who has always been honest and reliable and is now ill. Nevertheless, we seem to agree that better communication from Joe is in order.

I fully agree with that comment, no one has the intention of damaging anyone's reputation and good name.

Waiting for months to get a watch back, or not sending a watch back when you said you would, is something that only one person can explain, lets wait and see what the answer is.

Communication is one thing, having watches sitting for months, and accepting new ones, is another thing all together. I am sure there is a reasonable and plausable explination for all of this, till then, we can only wait until it's cleared up.

RG

[HighDef]

I'm with you @warburg. On one hand it's too much time for some of us waiting... on the other hand, Joe's reputation still talk for him. I'm sure he will "come back" soon.

Reputation?? Yep a Godly one that is.

[HighDef]

@Rob,

What is a decent turn arround on a watch job? We all know that this is not your main job and only doing this on the side, but there should be an SLA that you follow just for your self. I mean you just cannot do this service oriented bussiness without a system to follow and be successfull.

[RWG Technical]

@Rob,

What is a decent turn arround on a watch job? We all know that this is not your main job and only doing this on the side, but there should be an SLA that you follow just for your self. I mean you just cannot do this service oriented bussiness without a system to follow and be successfull.

Turn time depends on the work being done, I can only speak from my experiences.

For example, a full overhaul on a chronograph model (7750 etc) at a commercial shop is 10 weeks on average.

I estimate turn times of 1 week for relume, 2 weeks for a manual servicing, 3 for a automatic servicing, and 4 weeks for a chronograph movement, normally I do much better than these times...

RG

Edited May 15, 2006 by ziggyzumba

[kanerich]

I've been having fluent contact with Joe up to april 24th. Since then, no answers to my mails. I'm worried he's really sic, or.... ??? I know that is difficult to complain about so trusty and old boards member. I suspect he's having some more troubles then some health issues only. But we have to give him some credit guys! As said before, probably just a matter of lack of organization and method. I'm also waiting for a watch from him (in his hands since near 6 months a go) and still faith about receiving it soon (he promised me to send it to me one moth a go). Let's see.

I'm not exactly sure what a lack credit or faith has to do with what's being said. Some of these members have no doubt given Joe hundreds of dollars to fix up their watch. As someone in a service-oriented profession, my reality is that once I take someone's money in exchange for promising them a service, I do it right and on time or I haven't properly done my job. Further, I will get heat for that from my employer and client, and no reasonable person, including me, will consider that unfair. That's a childish and irresponsible attitude.

Lecture in personal responsibility aside, from what I can see, no one is calling Joe a crook, no one is saying that he does a bad job or acts in bad faith. No one saying anything untrue. So the lack of faith and credit claimed is a nonissue. People are simply legitimately irritated about not getting their watches back in a timely fashion or hearing from him, after giving him watches and money. If he's overreached he apparently hasn't done the best job letting people know of that, so people on this board are getting it out in the open. Seems not only fair, but a public service to me.

[longshot]

I agree completely.

I have waited as much as a year (actually a bit more) for a full restoration on a couple of my Seiko's by the Seiko Forum gurus so don't mind the wait. But Joe has had my Sub since April 8th and I've only had one communication in that time. The worst part is, he is supposed to contact me when he's ready to do the work so we can decide what all is to be done so I can't even be sure what the cost will be until then.

It appears Joe has not been active here or on TRC since May 3rd. It would be nice if he posted at least once a week to keep everyone updated

[RWG Technical]

I'm not exactly sure what a lack credit or faith has to do with what's being said. Some of these members have no doubt given Joe hundreds of dollars to fix up their watch. As someone in a service-oriented profession, my reality is that once I take someone's money in exchange for promising them a service, I do it right and on time or I haven't properly done my job. Further, I will get heat for that from my employer and client, and no reasonable person, including me, will consider that unfair. That's a childish and irresponsible attitude.

Lecture in personal responsibility aside, from what I can see, no one is calling Joe a crook, no one is saying that he does a bad job or acts in bad faith. No one saying anything untrue. So the lack of faith and credit claimed is a nonissue. People are simply legitimately irritated about not getting their watches back in a timely fashion or hearing from him, after giving him watches and money. If he's overreached he apparently hasn't done the best job letting people know of that, so people on this board are getting it out in the open. Seems not only fair, but a public service to me.

Very well said, my sentiments exactly.

I fully support your point of view. Those who's watches are not being returned deserve an explination, 8 months does not seem anywhere near reasonable, nor does 2 or 5 months (some other numbers that members have told me).

Facts are that people are not getting the answers they rightly deserve about their property and money. By bringing it to everyone's attention, at least it allows the rest of us to lend them support, and hopefully they will get answers and it will be resolved to everyon's satisfaction.

The sooner the better.

RG

[namor]

Hmm, so what is more unethic - criticize someone who is absent, or let more people get into trouble and being scammed ?

I've had nearly a year to think over and made my decision now.

Last year in summer I found RWG/TRC. I did my homework, even dug into the first postings reaching back years ago.

I've never been a great poster - but I'm nearly everyday on the fora and reading reading reading...

Learned many friends here and having a great time - NOW.

Last summer I was "only" a poor newbie - who would believe my story if I told it then ?

I was in "who has the best Sub"-Hype, loving Submariners since I know watches. So I decided to get one from Joe. The myth, the legend.

I read a lot about the reviews - and decided to order one from him, with FULL FULL modifications.

This is what I got:

I was shocked - I even thought he accidentally sent me the unrepaired watch of another customer !!!

But - no Problem ! Hey ! Calm down ! It's Joe ! THE Joe ! He will sort it out - he would never send you a watch like this FOR OVER 600 BUCKS !!!

Indeed - after paying he is no more interested in you.

I NEVER SAW A CENT BACK ! No refund, no help.

He just said "send it back, I'll see". Knowing well that I'm extremely aware about customs (I paid him extra money for secure shipping firstly to someone else in EU - than to me).

Do you see the scratch at the Crown ?

He commented like this: "sometimes it's extremely hard to pop these bezels off..."

Oh, come on !

Included in the whole package was a water test. He clearly stated it's no guarantee for real water-resistance but good for simple things like having a shower or things like that.

Now read this: I washed my hands with the watch on - and it immediately sucked the waterdrops into the watch !

I opened it and dried the watch to avoid damage - then showed it to my watchsmith, he measured and told me that the crystal is too small in diameter.

So combine this please - the watch having this fundamental problem, will never get waterresistant until you change the crystal or fix it with glue. So it's impossible that he did a watertest with my watch - cause it would have been flooded immediately !

By the way - do you see the crystal of this Sub ? This is how a realigned crystal should look like !!!

Another point: The famous CGs. Please do your Homework and search 1) for a reference pic of a gen and 2) for posted watches modified by Joe.

They are not even close to a gen. I gave it a try and modded one for myself - it's possible to get them nearly exact like genuine. (This is no advertisement - I do NOT offer mods.)

But I saw also the Sub-LV from repaustria (cerberus2002) for example - great results !!! This is clearly showing that these mods ARE possible to do - and that the ones from RBJ aren't that good.

Also many other members do their stuff on their own - and getting comments from Joe:

"oh my friend lol i love you all lol very good work lol but i had 1532 gen ones through my hands lol and modded 127399 watches lol your cgs are a little off lol dont get offended please lol i just want to help you all my friends lol cause i love watches and all of you and the board lol i just want to help lol"

Really interesting friends - this words from someone you have to pay replicacenter-prices for work that is 1) don't even done (in my case watertesting for example) or 2) could have been done much better.

Result of all this:

- I am scammed for more than 600 bucks. (And YES friends ! SCAMMED definetely IS the right expression for this !!!)

- I have learned important lessons ( I was clever enough to not get scammed from replicacenter - and got into the same kind of trouble with Joe)

- I have an Sub sitting here which is slightly more worth than an asian version from silix.

- I learned to do all the mods for myself.

Why I waited so long ? I thought nobody would believe me. Perhaps you still not do not after reading all this - but this is the truth.

You know what ? I have ALL the original emails with Joe.

Emails in which he is stating that the watch was perfect when he sent it and I messed it (Yeah ! I turned the aligned crystal back...) !

I don't want to copy and paste here (but I can if you all are interested) - cause Joe would just say that it's not true. I TELL YOU SOMETHING: There are some members I built friendships with that you ALL know. Reputable, and been in rwg since the early beginnings - I invite them to see this emails unedited in their original order in my postbox.

What more you need to believe ?

I shut my mouth too long - this is my biggest fault here - perhaps I could have get some money back if I made some trouble right after receiving this POS-watch. But as I stated before: I just was afraid nobody would believe my story.

All of you ! Get your watches back you are waiting for - some of you for many months and don't get into the same trouble !

THIS SCAM HAS TO END ! This is the most important idea why we all are here.

I will copy this to a new independent Thread - sorry for hijacking your initial post jdmdohcpower !

-edited to correct some spelling-

Edited May 14, 2006 by namor

[vmena]

If Joe has any reputation is beacuse of all you guys. Fore those that posted about the excellence of his job (and I'm talking about old and trusted board members, specially in the old RWG), and specially for all of you that never posted experiences like the one @namor is posting today.

My personal experience with Joe has been sucessfull in the past, except now that Im waiting for a watch for near 6 moths. But when Joe posted he was sic, nobody (none of you boys), replaid any other thing than "get well soon, so sorry to hear..., etc., etc.,).

And suddenly, one post (of some one with clear ideas and own personality, thanks @jdmdohcpower ) and everybody express what's seems to be heving kept inside for a long time.

I'm not justifying Joe for this lack of communication, delay and job not well done. But IMHO, this is not the way to proceed to someone that maybe in one week you may realize was really sic at the hospital (I hope not).

Slow down. Post your feelings, but leave the door open. You have the right to complain, but if later you realize you were wrong... would you post a public apology as well?

Personally, I'm going to wait until he explains to us what's goig on. And in the future, if any of you have any complain, let us know, so we can protect our selves. That's one of the forum reasons to be.

[namor]

@vmena:

under normal circumstances you are absolutely right - but (please don't get offended) you didn't seem to have understood all of this trouble.

1) If you are doing this job and are not willing to do all your best for EVERYONE - who would you mess with ?

Would you deliver poor quality to an "old and trusted board member" ? Or would you do this to someone nobody knows ???

2) Talking about MY watch - there simply is NO room for ANY explanations. It's just a POS. If you get this from any of our dealers they would change it immediately.

3) You give an example about being in hospital or something like that. So please think about it: there are members waiting for their watches FOR MONTHS - and some others post a review about sending a watch to joe and receiving it 2 weeks later.

So this whole illness stories are just BS imho. Everytime someone is complaining or he looses control about all the sent watches totally there is some illness. Children is ill, he is ill, this and that.

Someone who is presenting himself so professional should make a stop at this place.

If you are ill then you are ill. Stop accepting watches you can't work on. It's your responsibility for your customers.

There is nothing to slow down here. All that happened last summer and I'm over it. I saved money, bought other watches and went my way.

Only reason I haven't brought this earlier is that I thought nobody would believe me. But now some of you know me, some of you even personally - I am not scared anymore of being flamed. I have my friends here and this post will not mess existing friendships.

I also realized that there are many, many others who had an similar experience with Joe and this has to stop !

[vmena]

@vmena:

under normal circumstances you are absolutely right - but (please don't get offended) you didn't seem to have understood all of this trouble.

No offense at all @namor. I'm with you 100%. No words to explain what you feel when you get something like that after waiting for long.

Mabe beacuse I' surely older than you I'm not going so far (and also because I haven't suffered that poor job from Joe), so I'll wait for him to explain wht's going on. You are right; I've benn surprised becaise some other member have got theis watches faster than mine. We'll see.

But again, my bigger surprise was discovering so many (well, not much up to now) of you and very fast joining the "Joe's is not so good as you may think" line. I expect people expressing themselves in freedom and averyone if tell the (even "his") true, must be respected. When Paul's crazy sale delays, I was flamed for many people in old RWg because I cleaqry said that even this is an ilegal business, the business rules are the same. If I pay for something waht I've been asked for, I deserve a good service and treatment. I wander that thre are still some people defending dealers that do not come trhough as they should. Same for Joe.

Again no offense at all. I respect your view (I'm not far from it) and I guess mine also will be.

[namor]

@vmena

I'm glad to read that you didn't got me wrong.

I stated that I'm not afraid of being flaming anymore because I built some strong friendships here - but that doesn't mean that getting more friends isn't even better !

Edited May 14, 2006 by namor

[Guest jdmdohcpower]

I dont mind the wait, as I said. I just want him to stay in contact. I dont care how is day way or want to talk to him for hours. I just want to know when he expects to get it back. At this point I just want my watch back. He told me 1 day and it will be returned. Tomorrow I will check the status of the money order to see if it has been cashed and I will update as soon as I can. As for others who are waiting for months to get their watch back, all I was getting done was an insert change so Im not willing to wait.

My freind goes to shcool in NC less then a few hours from wilson. In a few weeks he is going back down to look for a place for next semester. If I dont hear for Joe by then, well Im going with him and I'm going to personaly pick up my watch.

Please, dont anyone thake this the wrong way......That is not a threat directed to Joe, my freind asked me to go as a favor, I didnt want to go so much, but I want my watch back. Also if I did drop by to pick it up, I have not intention of being aggressive.

Edited May 14, 2006 by jdmdohcpower

[rbj69]

thanks for the support guys and i am still here just playing catch up when im up to it , thanks for the support and the others that r really worried please contact me everyother day till i answer ok put it in big bold letters, im feeling good today so im here , and i assure u im not going anywhere , just slow right now, ok most of u know me and this is not usual of me and i will apologize for the inconvenience but i cant apologize for unforseen health problems ok thanks joe

[gran]

Nice to see you rbj69