New Forum Member with Questions!

[ProfJerry]

Hi All...

I am new (first post) to this forum and a new replica collector. I purchased a few watches...being nieve and new to replicas. I purchased a Daytona white face 2-tone from Bluefakes.com, a Daytona black face with red dials from Mynew watches.com and a Sub from Replicadetails.com. I guess I am one of those rare individuals that actually received the watch that I ordered. From reading posts regarding these vendors on this forum, I am very glad I didn't get scammed. The only issues I am having with all 3 of these watches is that they all run fast...averaging about 2-4 minutes per 72 hours. Also, one of the Daytonas stops for an hour or so at night when I am sleeping with it on my arm. When I get up and look at it, it is ticking...but it might be 1 hour back. . Also...is there a good watchmaker here that will work on these watches. A few I found will not touch a replica. Finally...do these watches actually have the 31 jewel Valjoux 7753 monvement they claim? How can I tell? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[By-Tor]

Welcome Jerry.

Could you post pics of those Daytonas with the stopwatch resetted so we can determine what they have "eaten"... ie. what kind of movement they have.

Edited July 28, 2007 by By-Tor

[ProfJerry]

Welcome Jerry.

Could you post pics of those Daytonas with the stopwatch resetted so we can determine what they have "eaten"... ie. what kind of movement they have.

Hi By-Tor...

Thanks for the welcome. Attached are pictures of my watches. They might not be the best...my camera is a few years old.

Thanks for the help!

[ProfJerry]

Welcome Jerry.

Could you post pics of those Daytonas with the stopwatch resetted so we can determine what they have "eaten"... ie. what kind of movement they have.

it won't let me attach more than one picture. I am almost at the 512 limit!

[alligoat]

My guess on the first pic is that it has the asian 7750 movt w/ the running seconds moved to the 6 o'clock subdial. Your chances of really getting a 7753 are probably zilch, it's an expensive movement and I doubt you'd be able to move the subdials to the correct positions.

The asian 7750 w/ running seconds at 6 is not a very reliable movement- the additional gearing to move stuff around bogs the movement down, causing it to fail. The older Daytonas w/ seconds at nine were a little better. Some of the dealers around here still have a few- or at least did a month ago.

[Pugwash]

Finally...do these watches actually have the 31 jewel Valjoux 7753 monvement they claim? How can I tell?

You can tell by the fact there is no such thing as a 31j Valjoux 7753. They are 27j movements.

Oh, and the 7753 is a seconds-at-9 movement and you have seconds-at-6.

[ProfJerry]

You can tell by the fact there is no such thing as a 31j Valjoux 7753. They are 27j movements.

Oh, and the 7753 is a seconds-at-9 movement and you have seconds-at-6.

Thanks for the feedback. Ok...now that I most likely have an Asian 7750 movement in my Daytonas....how do I go about getting them to be accurate and reliable? Is that possible?

[alligoat]

Accurate and reliable.

OK, you can have them serviced. That should improve the accuracy, but as far as the long term reliability, it's hard to say. Basically these are good movements to stay away from. Do you want to keep throwing money after them, it's your choice. Look around for Ziggy and see if maybe he can service a watch for you. I've heard on one Daytona w/ the running seconds at six where he had to disconnect the running seconds at six so that the rest of the movement would function. Sometimes you have to compromise. He can service the asian 7750 where the running seconds are at nine with much better results.

[ProfJerry]

Accurate and reliable.

OK, you can have them serviced. That should improve the accuracy, but as far as the long term reliability, it's hard to say. Basically these are good movements to stay away from. Do you want to keep throwing money after them, it's your choice. Look around for The Zigmeister and see if maybe he can service a watch for you. I've heard on one Daytona w/ the running seconds at six where he had to disconnect the running seconds at six so that the rest of the movement would function. Sometimes you have to compromise. He can service the asian 7750 where the running seconds are at nine with much better results.

Thanks for the info. Is it possible to pull the movement out and replace it with a more reliable one? I would be willing to do that. The case and bands are excellent.

[alligoat]

No, the asian 7750 w/ running seconds at six is a movement unto itself. I doubt it would be worth it to try to swap in an ETA/Valjoux 7750, but that's a question for someone like Ziggy. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses and run.

[freddy333]

The Rolex 4130 (the movement in current Daytonas) is designed with the running seconds in the subdial at the 6 position. The 7750 movement (both Asian and Swiss) is designed with the running seconds in the subdial at the 9 position, which makes it inaccurate for current Daytona models like yours.

So, to get around this problem, someone figured out a way to relocate the 7750's running seconds from the 9 to 6 position by adding several extra gears to the movement. While this works in theory, in practice it causes alot of problems and turns an otherwise reliable movement (the stock 7750 is generally considered to be a good, reliable movement) into an unreliable one. The problem is the extra drag, weight and friction caused by the additional gearing, and it does not matter whether you add the extra gearing to the Asian or Swiss 7750, since both are functionally the same movement.

From what I have seen, about 3/4 of the seconds at 6 7750s fail within the first few months. In some cases, the watch can be repaired, but repairs can cost more than a replacement watch and it is likely that the movement will break down again since the movement is constantly under stress due to the additional gears.

I do not mean to be overly critical, but I think some of the collectors here have nicer (more accurate) Daytona reps than the one you purchased. Here is one of the few that has not experienced problems

[ProfJerry]

The Rolex 4130 (the movement in current Daytonas) is designed with the running seconds in the subdial at the 6 position. The 7750 movement (both Asian and Swiss) is designed with the running seconds in the subdial at the 9 position, which makes it inaccurate for current Daytona models like yours.

So, to get around this problem, someone figured out a way to relocate the 7750's running seconds from the 9 to 6 position by adding several extra gears to the movement. While this works in theory, in practice it causes alot of problems and turns an otherwise reliable movement (the stock 7750 is generally considered to be a good, reliable movement) into an unreliable one. The problem is the extra drag, weight and friction caused by the additional gearing, and it does not matter whether you add the extra gearing to the Asian or Swiss 7750, since both are functionally the same movement.

From what I have seen, about 3/4 of the seconds at 6 7750s fail within the first few months. In some cases, the watch can be repaired, but repairs can cost more than a replacement watch and it is likely that the movement will break down again since the movement is constantly under stress due to the additional gears.

I do not mean to be overly critical, but I think some of the collectors here have nicer (more accurate) Daytona reps than the one you purchased. Here is one of the few that has not experienced problems

Hi Freddy...

Thank you for all the information. You have schooled the professor. So...gathering from your description of the 7750 movement in a newer Daytona...things are pretty bleak. If I want a newer style such as the one in your picture...or the black faced model in my picture...what are my options (if any)?

[freddy333]

If you want a 100% accurate & reliable Daytona, buy a Rolex (many members own genuine Rolexes).

The next best alternative is to build a 'frankenwatch', which is constructed (by you) out of a combination of genuine and aftermarket parts that you buy from antique stores, flea markets, auction houses and anywhere you can find them. I do not know anyone who has constructed a 116509 Daytona (the gen version of the watch you posted), but Ubiquitous built some 16520s (the model that preceded the current stainless steel Daytona 116520) at a cost of, if I remember, about $4,000 (each). You should be able to SEARCH out his posts describing these beautiful works of art.

The most cost effective alternative is to select the model you want and then visit an Authorized Rolex Dealer (AD) to educate yourself about the look and feel (try them on) of the genuine watch. Then use the SEARCH feature (at the top of the page) to research the variations between the different reps of your model (hint - there is no such thing as a '1:1', 'perfect' or 'exact' replica watch, they all have one or more flaws). Every rep has a different flaw or set of flaws and you will need to decide for yourself which are the least objectionable to you.

ps When replying, try to include only a brief portion of the previous message if/when you need it to make your response make sense. It is not good etiquette to quote an entire message (including photos) and then just add a couple of lines to the end.

[alligoat]

Another option would be to look for the older 16520 series of Daytonas which had the running seconds at 9. Although these aren't perfect either, they are much more dependable. This one from Paul is still avaiable w/ a Swiss 7750:

http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?cPa...products_id=625

Silix has this one with the asian 7750:

http://www.silix-prime.com/product.asp?id=1369

These watches are a better value for the long haul, and the Silix asian 7750 can be serviced for a couple of hundred dolllars and give you years of dependable service.

Another option is the older gens- the 16500 series. Sure, they're not the latest and greatest, but these older Daytonas with the Zenith (Rolex model #4030) "El Primero" movement are becoming collectors models in their own rights at this point. Picking up a gen Daytona with the Zenith movt could probably still be done in the $6K range, maybe less if you shop around.

[alligoat]

Oops. I just noticed that even though the Silix description calls the Daytona a seconds at 9, the pic is of a seconds at 6 model. You'd have to check w/ Jay on this. These seconds at 9 won't be around much longer, which is unfortunate, because the seconds at 6 are just a piece of junk IMO.

[By-Tor]

@Jerry: This is Ziggy's review of the notorious "Seconds at '6" Asian movement you have in your watch. I highly recommend reading it, it's very professional and fascinating.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/Movement-review-...at-6-t1414.html

[ProfJerry]

@Jerry: This is The Zigmeister's review of the notorious "Seconds at '6" Asian movement you have in your watch. I highly recommend reading it, it's very professional and fascinating.

Thanks for all your help. It is very disheartening that I spent alot of money on these watches and the investment bleak. I learned an expensive lesson. I guess I will take my 2 daytonas and try to get The Zigmeister to service them. At least I will get them accurate and hopefully they will run for a few years. In that time...maybe I will build one or buy a gen.

[freddy333]

If it is any consolation, we have all been there.