So let me see if I have this right about 7750 movements and their alterations

[crystalcranium]

I gathered from some threads from Ziggy that any chronos re-worked from either Swiss 7750 movements or Asian 7750 to display the subdials at 3,6,9 from the original 12,6,9 can be unreliable with the old Asian 7750 being the weakest link in the chain. Is the old Asian 7750 in the original 12,6,9 a reliable movement? Josh sells Breitling Avenger Chronographs with Asian 7750 with subdials at the original positions. Is this a reliable investment of $288?

[Watchmeister]

I just swapped the Asian for a Swiss in the same model so be forewarned. But, in fairness, a good number of folks here have had very good experiences with the movement in the Breitling.

[alligoat]

The Asian 7750 has subdials at 3, 6, and 9. 21,600bph. Automatic

The Swiss 7750 has subdials at 6, 9, and 12. 28,800 bph. Automatic

The Asian 7750 is a descendant of the old Swiss 7750 and it's predecessors, the 7736 and the v72, which had the subdials at 3, 6, and 9. I believe that the old 7750, the 7736 and the v72 were all 18,000 bph and 17 jewels, manual wind. At some point a long time ago (20 years?) the 7750 was updated to 25 jewels and gven a rotor to make it an automatic. It is also with day/date or just date.

A Swiss 7753 has the subdials at 3, 6, and 9, 28,800 bph and automatic. It might have 27 jewels, but I'm not 100% on that.

I'm not sure about an Asian 7750 w/ subdials at 6, 9, and 12, although it wouldn't surprise me. You can read Ziggy's post on the new Asian 7750 w/ the running seconds at 6 and his latest comparison bet. the Swiss 7750, old Asian and new Asian for more info.

[dachshund]

The unreliabality of the so called 7750 be it Swiss or Asian has nothing to do with the 3,6,9 or 6,9, 12 placement. What effects the reliabality is moving the running seconds from 9 to 6 with the added gears, that puts added strain on the movement.

And yes Swiss is much better than Asia, according to our own polls on old RWG, almost 50% of the Asian 7750 developed some type of problem early on. ( That poll did not include the newest Asian with the 28,800 beat, was not in existance then)

[alligoat]

To add to Dachshund's comment. I'm not aware of any reliability problems w/ the Swiss 7750, nor am I aware of the subdials being moved on a Swiss 7750, such as has been done w/ the asian to move the running seconds to 6 from 9. It wouldn't make sense, why screw up a perfectly good swiss movement!

[crystalcranium]

Now I'm really confused. What is the most reliable asian chrono movement. Is the asian copy of the swiss chrono movement a copy of the 7750 (12,6,9 running sec t 9) or the 7753 (3,6,9 running sec at 9). I'm assuming the 28,000 bph movement is not widely available I understand the reliability issue with moving the running seconds to 6.

The unreliabality of the so called 7750 be it Swiss or Asian has nothing to do with the 3,6,9 or 6,9, 12 placement. What effects the reliabality is moving the running seconds from 9 to 6 with the added gears, that puts added strain on the movement.

And yes Swiss is much better than Asia, according to our own polls on old RWG, almost 50% of the Asian 7750 developed some type of problem early on. ( That poll did not include the newest Asian with the 28,800 beat, was not in existance then)

[tmark]

So let me see if I have this right? The old asian 7750 is unreliable and has sub dials at 3,6 and 9. With running seconds at nine. So if an asian 7750 has sub dials at 6,9,12 with running at 9, they have added extra gears to move subdials? therefore even more unreliable? It sounds like new 7750 has running seconds at 6 is that correct?

mark

Edited May 10, 2006 by tmark

[tmark]

Oh one more what is a asian 7750b1? Still unreliable??

thanks

[alligoat]

Where's Ziggy when you need him?

The most reliable (best built) asian 7750 is the new one in the IWC chrono or the latest model Daytona (where the running seconds have been moved to 6). But moving the running seconds to 6 involves additional gearing which could jeopardize performance and reliability over the long haul.

Was the 7750b1 where the subdials on a late model Daytona rep were moved above the centerline axis to mimic the Rolex? Or is it just a later version of the old asian 7750?

And I don't know where an asian 7750 w/ subdials at 6, 9, and 12 fits in- the two asian 7750's I own are 3, 6, and 9! All I can hope for is that the 7750's undergo a transformation and are improved! At least my two old 7750's are doing ok so far.

@ tmark, an asian 7750 w/ subdials at 6, 9 and 12 wouldn't have extra gearing, but would be a later model copy of the swiss 7750 w/ the same dial configuration- can't tell you if it's reliable.

Hopefully the Chinese are working to improve the quality of the 7750's!

[crystalcranium]

Let me see if I can clarify a basic question. Let's forget about the new 7750's and their variants. I won't be getting one of those in the watches I'm considering. Is the most reliable of the old asian 7750s the 369 run at 9 configuration (actually a 7753 copy right?) or the 12,6,9 run at 9 configuration (a true 7750 copy right?). I'm looking to buy one of Josh's asian powered chrono reps and I want the most reliable.

[Richard Tracy]

If you are looking for lowest risk... seek a used one that has passed the test of time..

as they are great or bad, depending upon chance...or,.. get your watch serviced upon receipt.

The Zigmeister is The Expert on these watches.. though I don't know if he's accepting them at present.

These Navi's don't have the newest 7750 movement..

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=3845

{unless by this time there has been an update that The Zigmeister is unaware of,}

7750b1 is the same as the first version with only a better speed adjustment mech...

as far as I have learned.. {if there are any other differences..please someone chime in.}

3-6-9 is more accurate to the current model gens, but the 6-9-12 model usually has a centered

date wheel while the other is sitting low, that is the only issue regarding the choice there as far as I know.

I might also add that if you don't have the funds to servicing and want to obtain a new one..

examine it closely upon receipt.. but be gentle..if anything is out of sync, send it back..

if it seems okay... still.. take extra care of it for the first three months... baby it.. make sure it's warm

before operating it, and *don't subject it to a winder.. {*= My own personal opinion}

Hope this helps....

[r11co]

Something fundamental here. The correct placement for the subdials on the 7750 is 6, 9 and 12. That is the only genuine, designed configuration (notwithstanding that some versions of watch using the 7750 movement do not actually employ all the subdials).

The 7753 is the 'official' movement with the subdials at 3, 6 and 9. Replicas having this subdial postitioning are bastardised 7750's (Swiss and Asian copies) using a couple of transfer wheels overlayed onto the front of the movement. This is why the datewheel ends up sunken compared to the real 7753's. There are no replica versions of the 7753 movement, only 7750s that try to emulate the look of the 7753.

The latest incarnations of 7750s designed to emulate the Rolex Cosmograph movement are a further basterdised, utterly non standard design using a pile of transfer gears. These movements dispense with lubrication in order to overcome the friction losses incurred by the additional gearing. They are the worst kind of compromise out!!

Breitling replicas using Asian 7750 movements with the same subdial layout as the genuine 7750s (ie. 12, 6 ans 9) have proven to be very reliable as there has been no hacking about with the movement.

Edited May 11, 2006 by r11co

[ubiquitous]

r11co is correct- All 7750's, Swiss, Asian, B1 or not have the 6/9/12 subsidiary register positions- To get the 3/6/9, a bridge and extra gears are added at 12:00 to shift output to 3:00.

[crystalcranium]

That's the answer I'm looking for!!!! A true 7750 copy has the subs at 12,6,9 runnung sec at 9 like my REAL 7750 powered Omega Seamaster Chronograph. Any other placement of the dials is a bastardization of the original 7750 design either with transfer wheels or multiple gears? A 3,6,9 arrangement is not a copy of a 7753 but rather a basterdized 7750 copy. Do I have it right and am I right to assume that any 3,6,9 arranged rep claiming 7750 roots, like Daytonas, Speedmaster non moon watch chronos, are potential trouble? I think I saw a Ziggy post somewhere that he did not have a problem with the mechanical reliability of the old 7750 clone except where it has been messed with. Can I hope to see the new 7750 (28,000 bph) in a non basterdized 12,6,9 configuration powering say a Breitling Chrono Avenger sometime soon?

Edited May 11, 2006 by crystalcranium

[Richard Tracy]

Something fundamental here. The correct placement for the subdials on the 7750 is 6, 9 and 12. That is the only genuine, designed configuration (notwithstanding that some versions of watch using the 7750 movement do not actually employ all the subdials).

The 7753 is the 'official' movement with the subdials at 3, 6 and 9. Replicas having this subdial postitioning are bastardised 7750's (Swiss and Asian copies) using a couple of transfer wheels overlayed onto the front of the movement. This is why the datewheel ends up sunken compared to the real 7753's. There are no replica versions of the 7753 movement, only 7750s that try to emulate the look of the 7753.

The latest incarnations of 7750s designed to emulate the Rolex Cosmograph movement are a further basterdised, utterly non standard design using a pile of transfer gears. These movements dispense with lubrication in order to overcome the friction losses incurred by the additional gearing. They are the worst kind of compromise out!!

Breitling replicas using Asian 7750 movements with the same subdial layout as the genuine 7750s (ie. 12, 6 ans 9) have proven to be very reliable as there has been no hacking about with the movement.

A great breakdown explanation of The Zigmeister's info..making clear sense of the potential problems we face.

[RWG Technical]

All I can add to the already great answers is that the only ones that are a big problem are the Daytona with seconds at 6 models.

7750's basterdized to be 7753's are not prone to be problematic, the three transfer gears taking the minute counter from 12 to 3 on the dial, are not a big problem.

Great answers and accurate info.

RG