Went to the Jeweller's today

[keith_bran]

Hi

I was browsing in the jeweller's today, killing some time before a city centre meeting. The guy in question is an AD for Rolex, Omega, Breitling and some "fashion" watches like Gucci and Armani.

So anyway I'm wearing my (rep) 177 PAM on a Europelli Shell Cordovan - almost immediately the AD came over and said "Nice watch!" I said thanks, and nothing more. Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies........

We got chatting, I ended up trying on an LV Sub, a Sea Dweller, a black PO, and a blue SFSO.

Firstly; compared to my PAM all these watches are tiny! (The PO is actually a bit bigger in diameter iirc, but doesn't look it). The size of the Rolex watches on my wrist was surprising; I guess I'm just used to the big fat PAM. I do like the LV sub though, this may lead to me actually buying a gen one.

The SFSO in the flesh was a beauty; lovely and thick. It had a straight "S" tail. Perhaps the reps are indeed accurate!

Slightly underwhelmed by the PO - perhaps it's just not my cup of tea.

After a while I had to go to my meeting; shook hands with the AD; he said it was nice to have a chat with "someone really interested in watches"!

cheers

Keith

[Raijor]

Dealer likely knew you were wearing a rep but was just being polite - salepeople will do that so as not alienate a potential future customer.

[subzero1]

Dealer likely knew you were wearing a rep but was just being polite - salepeople will do that so as not alienate a potential future customer.

Uhm, how? Unless he's "very" familiar w/the line, it's unlikely. Even some of the reps posted on paneristi are not called out immediately, it often takes someone that is an expert on reps (notice I say an expert on reps, not an expert on gens) to call it out, even given unlimited time to review large high resolution picture files. Without this I would say it's almost impossible to spot a really good rep, particularly given the year over year variations most manufacturers have in all of their lines.

[Pugwash]

The SFSO in the flesh was a beauty; lovely and thick. It had a straight "S" tail. Perhaps the reps are indeed accurate!

The rep SFSO is accurate. The shape of the S was a mistake made in the early days of the SFSO rep. Since then, the supposed errors of the wrong-placed HE valve, the date window border, bracelet shape, S-curve ... they've all been proven to have been misunderstandings.

Damn, I need to get to an AD to browse again. It's been too long.

[Raijor]

Uhm, how? Unless he's "very" familiar w/the line, it's unlikely. Even some of the reps posted on paneristi are not called out immediately, it often takes someone that is an expert on reps (notice I say an expert on reps, not an expert on gens) to call it out, even given unlimited time to review large high resolution picture files. Without this I would say it's almost impossible to spot a really good rep, particularly given the year over year variations most manufacturers have in all of their lines.

I don't know how - just my opinion - could be right and could be wrong - not based on fact - Cheers

[subzero1]

Sorry if I came off a bit peevish there - I have a hunch that a lot of people think that the high end reps are easily spotted by others, but I do not think they are. In fact I would submit that most good reps are VERY DIFFICULT to spot in person (as opposed to on an internet forum with experts well versed in the world of rep-dom). As long as the fit and finish is a reasonablly proximity to the real thing, the crystal is gen sapphire and sufficiently clear (ie, AR'd), and the person wearing it looks like they could afford it, then I submit that a rep will NOT be called out in the vast majority of circumstances. The fear that it is "obvious" to others is a result of the fact that "we" know that it is a rep, and we are projecting our fears. Most people simply don't know and don't care.

[bbell6]

I had an interesting experience in a tourneau store a couple of weeks ago. I was wearing a RXW MM10 (PAM homage) and was asking if they had any aftermarket bracelets that would fit (I was looking for an oyster style with endpieces that would match the squared case). The salesman, initially making the assumption that it was a PAM, or just being polite, asked "so you don't want a genuine." I replied that the watch wasn't a PAM, but rather a homage and tried to explain a little of the history behind the RXW brand. Most of this seemed to be lost on him because he was obviously thinking replica.

He stepped backwards and to the side to confer with another salesman. Salesman two then stepped forward and said "so you are looking for a fake PAM band". At this point, I didn't think it was going to be worth the effort to reiterate that I was looking for an oyster band. I just replied that I didn't care who made it, I just wanted a metal bracelet for the watch. He told me that I might have more luck on ebay.

As this was occuring another salesman (salesman 3) walked up to the first salesman and they start whispering. Then salesmen one and three joined salesman two at the counter and salesman one introduces me to salesman three. They informed me that up until recently they (several of the salesmen in the store) were aware of a web page where you could buy extremely accurate "fakes" (their terminology). The web page was no longer up at that point.

Apparantly, quite a few of them had purchased replica PAMs that they wore when they weren't working. They said it all started when I customer came in to have his PAM worked on and it was sent back to Panerai for servicing. They said the watch was returned to the store with a note from Panerai that it was not a genuine PAM. The salesman said that this was unusual for a company to send back a fake, but that the note went on to say that the watch had fooled the service tech until he opened the case and realized it wasn't one of their watches. Impressed by the quality of the watch Panerai had supposedly sent it back to the store because they didn't want to destroy it. This last part of the story seemed a little far fetched. Has anyone here ever heard a story like that.

[POTR]

I have heard, more than once at ADs and at other watch groups, of ROLEX sending back exceptional "franken" watches, sans coronet & logo, with a plain winding crown. However, among the stories, it is consistently a GEN movement.

[World Traveller]

Do you ever feel kind of bad taking their time and trying on the watches if you don't intend to buy them? I have done it a few times and I feel a little bad but I always plan to buy a gen in the future.

[bbell6]

Do you ever feel kind of bad taking their time and trying on the watches if you don't intend to buy them? I have done it a few times and I feel a little bad but I always plan to buy a gen in the future.

Not if the store isn't busy. They have to be there anyway, and they might just talk me into buying one. However, if the store is busy, or if there are more customers than salespeople, I will tell them that I am only looking and suggest that they help the other person.

If I frequent the same store more than once in a month, I try to make sure that the same salesperson isn't working (unless its a hot saleswoman - she has a better chance of talking me into purchasing something, so I'm not wasting her time).

[archibald]

I had an interesting experience in a tourneau store a couple of weeks ago. I was wearing a RXW MM10 (PAM homage) and was asking if they had any aftermarket bracelets that would fit (I was looking for an oyster style with endpieces that would match the squared case). The salesman, initially making the assumption that it was a PAM, or just being polite, asked "so you don't want a genuine." I replied that the watch wasn't a PAM, but rather a homage and tried to explain a little of the history behind the RXW brand. Most of this seemed to be lost on him because he was obviously thinking replica.

He stepped backwards and to the side to confer with another salesman. Salesman two then stepped forward and said "so you are looking for a fake PAM band". At this point, I didn't think it was going to be worth the effort to reiterate that I was looking for an oyster band. I just replied that I didn't care who made it, I just wanted a metal bracelet for the watch. He told me that I might have more luck on ebay.

As this was occuring another salesman (salesman 3) walked up to the first salesman and they start whispering. Then salesmen one and three joined salesman two at the counter and salesman one introduces me to salesman three. They informed me that up until recently they (several of the salesmen in the store) were aware of a web page where you could buy extremely accurate "fakes" (their terminology). The web page was no longer up at that point.

Apparantly, quite a few of them had purchased replica PAMs that they wore when they weren't working. They said it all started when I customer came in to have his PAM worked on and it was sent back to Panerai for servicing. They said the watch was returned to the store with a note from Panerai that it was not a genuine PAM. The salesman said that this was unusual for a company to send back a fake, but that the note went on to say that the watch had fooled the service tech until he opened the case and realized it wasn't one of their watches. Impressed by the quality of the watch Panerai had supposedly sent it back to the store because they didn't want to destroy it. This last part of the story seemed a little far fetched. Has anyone here ever heard a story like that.

The guy ay my Tourneau worked at the Ritz Camera in the same mall for yesrs, and I guarantee still knows far more about cameras than watches. I think Tourneau hires more based on sales ability than watch knowledge, and probably that's a good idea. It looks to me like those guys were just trying to not get in trouble and in their minds trying to protect their livelyhoods.

As far as the OP repair shop sending reps back to AD's--OP may view this as some sort of education program for their AD's rather than some kind of admiration of Chinese copyright infringing craftsmanship...

In any case, the guys at my Tourneau are such hard-selling dopes, I don't feel guilty trying on watches. I just ask them if they're willing to match any AD price. They say yes, but their enthusiasm and the hard sell diminishes rapidly after you ask them that....

[Raijor]

Sorry if I came off a bit peevish there - I have a hunch that a lot of people think that the high end reps are easily spotted by others, but I do not think they are. In fact I would submit that most good reps are VERY DIFFICULT to spot in person (as opposed to on an internet forum with experts well versed in the world of rep-dom). As long as the fit and finish is a reasonablly proximity to the real thing, the crystal is gen sapphire and sufficiently clear (ie, AR'd), and the person wearing it looks like they could afford it, then I submit that a rep will NOT be called out in the vast majority of circumstances. The fear that it is "obvious" to others is a result of the fact that "we" know that it is a rep, and we are projecting our fears. Most people simply don't know and don't care.

No worries mate - the forum is the place to voice your opinion - I have learned much from people with different opinions by keeping an open mind. Cheers

[TeeJay]

I had an interesting experience in a tourneau store a couple of weeks ago. I was wearing a RXW MM10 (PAM homage) and was asking if they had any aftermarket bracelets that would fit (I was looking for an oyster style with endpieces that would match the squared case). The salesman, initially making the assumption that it was a PAM, or just being polite, asked "so you don't want a genuine." I replied that the watch wasn't a PAM, but rather a homage and tried to explain a little of the history behind the RXW brand. Most of this seemed to be lost on him because he was obviously thinking replica.

He stepped backwards and to the side to confer with another salesman. Salesman two then stepped forward and said "so you are looking for a fake PAM band". At this point, I didn't think it was going to be worth the effort to reiterate that I was looking for an oyster band. I just replied that I didn't care who made it, I just wanted a metal bracelet for the watch. He told me that I might have more luck on ebay.

As this was occuring another salesman (salesman 3) walked up to the first salesman and they start whispering. Then salesmen one and three joined salesman two at the counter and salesman one introduces me to salesman three. They informed me that up until recently they (several of the salesmen in the store) were aware of a web page where you could buy extremely accurate "fakes" (their terminology). The web page was no longer up at that point.

Apparantly, quite a few of them had purchased replica PAMs that they wore when they weren't working. They said it all started when I customer came in to have his PAM worked on and it was sent back to Panerai for servicing. They said the watch was returned to the store with a note from Panerai that it was not a genuine PAM. The salesman said that this was unusual for a company to send back a fake, but that the note went on to say that the watch had fooled the service tech until he opened the case and realized it wasn't one of their watches. Impressed by the quality of the watch Panerai had supposedly sent it back to the store because they didn't want to destroy it. This last part of the story seemed a little far fetched. Has anyone here ever heard a story like that.

Wow, if any sales monkey ever spoke to me like that in a store, by Salesman 2, I'd've told tell them to go [censored] themselves and take my money elsewhere. To have heard horror stories is one thing, but to be so deliberately obnoxious to a customer, who, at the end of the day, is essentially paying their wages, is just totally unacceptable.

[jiro]

Interesting story from both keith and bell~

Thanks for sharing~

I have walked into AD once wearing my SMP Chrono......and they had NO freaken idea that it was a rep.....

You will be surprised by how many of these AD salesmen are not as knowledgable as they should be....

[TeeJay]

Interesting story from both keith and bell~

Thanks for sharing~

I have walked into AD once wearing my SMP Chrono......and they had NO freaken idea that it was a rep.....

You will be surprised by how many of these AD salesmen are not as knowledgable as they should be....

Sadly, that is scarily accurate throughout the entire retail industry. I don't think anything bugs me more than when an assistant doesn't have a clue about the products they sell, whatever that product may be.

[eddhead]

The guy ay my Tourneau worked at the Ritz Camera in the same mall for yesrs, and I guarantee still knows far more about cameras than watches. I think Tourneau hires more based on sales ability than watch knowledge, and probably that's a good idea. It looks to me like those guys were just trying to not get in trouble and in their minds trying to protect their livelyhoods.

As far as the OP repair shop sending reps back to AD's--OP may view this as some sort of education program for their AD's rather than some kind of admiration of Chinese copyright infringing craftsmanship...

In any case, the guys at my Tourneau are such hard-selling dopes, I don't feel guilty trying on watches. I just ask them if they're willing to match any AD price. They say yes, but their enthusiasm and the hard sell diminishes rapidly after you ask them that....

I had the converse experience but it still proves your point.

My g/f purhcased a gen 5513 as a gift to me last year. I went into a very well known ad just to verify it was genuine. a very distinguised older sales person told me that given the quality of replicas coming our of China and other far east locations, niether he nor anyone else in that store could verify the watches authenticity with absolute certainty unless they removed the case examined the movement and found the serial number. Let me reiterate, this is a very nice watch store, in fact I prefer it to Tournuea. They sell full line of Rolexes, Cartiers, and other luxury brand watches and they have been in business for over 50 years.

[bbell6]

Wow, if any sales monkey ever spoke to me like that in a store, by Salesman 2, I'd've told tell them to go [censored] themselves and take my money elsewhere. To have heard horror stories is one thing, but to be so deliberately obnoxious to a customer, who, at the end of the day, is essentially paying their wages, is just totally unacceptable.

@TeeJay

After your comment, I reread my post, and my description of the event does sound like he was being a smart ass. I edited the conversatiom for this post. He was actually telling me that I could get a high quality replica band on ebay (they all used the word "fake" but not in a derogatory sense). He was attempting to educate me on the quality of these items and letting me know that no retailers could take the risk of selling these but that they were in fact worth considering. Sorry that I made the salesman sound like an ass. They were all rather nice and helpful, not the least bit snobbish.