Name That Movement!

[TeeJay]

So I had to take the caseback off my 111h for no particular reason...

I just wondered what the movement experts could make of the movement itself (in terms of identifying it) as I figured this was the best way to find out if I actually received was as advertized. Here's the pics...

[FxrAndy]

I would say that is one of the first asaim 6497 copys but waht it is called i dont know, i wonder is cousins uk sell them, if they could you could just restick the engraved plates on the new one. Did tourby have some asian movements for sale a while ago?

[PAMman]

Asian copy of the Swiss ETA 6497. Higher beat than the ETA 6497-1, similar to the ETA 6472-2.

[seraphe]

Cosmetic wise, it replicates the look of OP III. This movement would make a great rep movement for a PAM001, provided it comes with a closed back and sausage dial.

[TeeJay]

I would say that is one of the first asaim 6497 copys but waht it is called i dont know, i wonder is cousins uk sell them, if they could you could just restick the engraved plates on the new one. Did tourby have some asian movements for sale a while ago?

So would the listing:

"High quality Unitas 6497 Movement"

be accurate?

[PAMman]

Only accurate insofar as it is a Unitas design. The current Swiss ETA is also described as a 'Unitas' but that is not strictly correct as the Unitas company no longer exists.

The only movement that could accurately be described as 'high quality Unitas 6497' would be an older movement actually manufactured by the Unitas watch company which was bought by ETA / Swatch. However, to most people the description best fits the current Swiss ETA although this one wasn't described as Swiss.

Sharp practice at best.

Edited October 3, 2007 by PAMman

[skcheng]

So I had to take the caseback off my 111h for no particular reason...

I just wondered what the movement experts could make of the movement itself (in terms of identifying it) as I figured this was the best way to find out if I actually received was as advertized. Here's the pics...

That is an Asian 6497-2 copy. Higher beat. It has the flared spokes on the balance wheel. I've seen nicer finished versions of this movement with polished, beveled ratchet/crown wheels. Also, are there two screws underneath the balance wheel? I can't tell for sure from the pics??

It's a decent movement. But nothing someone should pay "extra" for.

[TeeJay]

Only accurate insofar as it is a Unitas design. The current Swiss ETA is also described as a 'Unitas' but that is not strictly correct as the Unitas company no longer exists.

The only movement that could accurately be described as 'high quality Unitas 6497' would be an older movement actually manufactured by the Unitas watch company which was bought by ETA / Swatch. However, to most people the description best fits the current Swiss ETA although this one wasn't described as Swiss.

Sharp practice at best.

Ahh. On the dealer's listings, there are watches for about 2-3 times the price which are then identified as having Genuine Swiss ETA movements... So would it be fair to say that it was a reasonable description?

[TeeJay]

That is an Asian 6497-2 copy. Higher beat. It has the flared spokes on the balance wheel. I've seen nicer finished versions of this movement with polished, beveled ratchet/crown wheels. Also, are there two screws underneath the balance wheel? I can't tell for sure from the pics??

It's a decent movement. But nothing someone should pay "extra" for.

Indeed, this was the 'base line' movement, there were others more expensive. I've never had a problem with the dealer or doubted their honesty, I just figured that as the caseback had to be opened, it would be interesting to see if what was inside actually was as described

[PAMman]

If the 'same' watch was also being offerred with a 'genuine Swiss movement' at a significantly greater price then I would say that there was no deliberate deception involved in this instance. However, you would have needed to 'read between the lines' as it should have been described as an 'Asian, movement, based on the original Unitas design.

There are so many variations of this movement, mostly mimicing the Panerai modified ETA movements, that it is hard to keep track of them all. The most dubious of all being the so-called "Genuine Swiss" E (or H) series Panerai style movements with the Panerai type bridges and Swan-neck regulators. These may be built upon Swiss ETA baseplates and carry the ETA markings but all of the Panerai styled bits are Asian. Where do you go with one of these when you need parts?

I'll stick to the closed back models with unaltered ETA movemets on the grounds of longevity and reliability and also because these are the most desirable of all Panerai models. Ask any of the Paneristi.

Edited October 3, 2007 by PAMman

[seraphe]

I agree with PAMman totally.

In the rep world today, there are 4 main types of movements used in pannie reps. It's really what you want...

• Base Asian Unitas 6497 copy, 21,600 VPH
  
• New Asian Unitas 6497 copy with swan neck, 21,600 VPH
  
• Asian Clone ETA 6497 with swan neck, 21,600 VPH
  
• Swiss Stamped 6497 with Swan neck, 18,600 VPH
  

Both the Asian unitas copies are identified without any ETA stamp marking behind the balancing wheel. The Asian clone ETA replicates the ETA stamp of the swiss original but are etched instead of stamped. This ETA clones are claimed to be able to take gen ETA parts but this has not been tested and proven. Even with the Swiss, unless it is left untampered, it is not to be considered a 'genuine swiss' movement but rather a hybrid of gen swiss base and Asian face plates.

If you wish to have a full 'genuine swiss' movement, get a closed back PAM. But so far most of the Asian clones have shown to be rather reliable. In case of possible accidental shits, you can opt for the Asian clone of the ETA which can be fixed by watchmakers with gen parts.

Hope this helps

If the 'same' watch was also being offerred with a 'genuine Swiss movement' at a significantly greater price then I would say that there was no deliberate deception involved in this instance. However, you would have needed to 'read between the lines' as it should have been described as an 'Asian, movement, based on the original Unitas design.

There are so many variations of this movement, mostly mimicing the Panerai modified ETA movements, that it is hard to keep track of them all. The most dubious of all being the so-called "Genuine Swiss" E (or H) series Panerai style movements with the Panerai type bridges and Swan-neck regulators. These may be built upon Swiss ETA baseplates and carry the ETA markings but all of the Panerai styled bits are Asian. Where do you go with one of these when you need parts?

I'll stick to the closed back models with unaltered ETA movemets on the grounds of longevity and reliability and also because these are the most desirable of all Panerai models. Ask any of the Paneristi.

Edited October 3, 2007 by seraphe

[TeeJay]

Thanks for the comments, guys As posted in the other thread, I think that reading between the lines, as the 'expensive watches' are listed as having genuine Swiss movements, it's reasonable to say that it's unsaid, that the cheaper watches have the Asian movements. I took it into a watchsmiths for examination, and was wondering, could glass particles damage the movement beyond repair, or should a stripdown and cleaning be sufficient to get it working again? (It was working after the initial impact, and when the large chunks were removed, but stopped after I blew on it...)