lanikai Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Just a heads up.. i had the thread yesterday and now cannot find it It was brought to my attention that a collector .. not one of our "factory' collectors.. is selling what would appear to be the 07 Cousteau divers.. this may very well be a copy of the original copy.. if anyone has come across this .. check it out carefully and post questions.. there are a lot of inconsistencies supposedly .. because it has not been ascertained 100% this is by the same maker that is copying the HBB Rep. I will not name the collector as he may or may not be aware of this .. so i believe we will need to do more footwork but to be on the safe side.. has anyone come across this ?? I think it is selling for 340 usd?? Inconsistancies: Serail numbers... on the copy of the rep.= 0001,.. the original rep has 5 random set of numbers On the Bezel: 12 to 3 has no trim on the copy of the rep. and the orange colouring is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) pictures please? btw. who sells the hbb copy-copy? Edited January 5, 2008 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 pictures please? btw. who sells the hbb copy-copy? First of all i am not calling anyone on the carpet.. the phrase is "same watch that is the GZ market".. which could be interpreted differently...but here are the pics of the first rep and now the rep of a rep... Rep. sold by factory collectors copy Ist rep.... copy of the replicated watch again just a heads up that this is a copy of the copy... and i don't know who sells the copy of the replicated HBB .. just be mindful of deals that are too good to be true or check out carefully what you are actually buying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 whats wrong with the copy of the hbb copy? from what i have heared, you can get a ceramic copycopy hbb f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 whats wrong with the copy of the hbb copy? from what i have heared, you can get a ceramic copycopy hbb f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 well you make it sound like its really inferior quality. i was just asking you to elaborate (because i dont know better)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookycord Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 FYI Apparently there is a new HBB maker who makes the Alpine? (all white Big Bang) different rotor (engraved) and markings on movement. I think TWP is carrying it. I don't know if this is a 'copy of a copy' but it is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 FYI Apparently there is a new HBB maker who makes the Alpine? (all white Big Bang) different rotor (engraved) and markings on movement. I think TWP is carrying it. I don't know if this is a 'copy of a copy' but it is different. yes,.. the maker is supposedly copying the original Rep and the movement is not the same .. the movement that is in the original rep comes from a factory that is "state" owned and they will not endorse contraband.. is the state run factory better ?? that is the question @slay... did not mean to offend but I am not an "expert' and to pass judgement on such things would be conjecture on my part.. just saying that this is a copy of a copy.. for your information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 I have just read this thread... Just to clarify. The pictures come from prototype of this model (there are actually a few more pictures from factory). No worry, it's from the same factory. The picture has been around even before the first buyer has this piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hey Lanikai... interesting but to be honest i hardly understand what you actually mean. Do you mean one of the factories bought a rep, copied the rep (not an original) and this probably means the rep of the rep is of poor quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hey Lanikai... interesting but to be honest i hardly understand what you actually mean. Do you mean one of the factories bought a rep, copied the rep (not an original) and this probably means the rep of the rep is of poor quality? YES,.. that's my understanding there are differences from the original rep and it is from a different factory.. but if members doubt the info then go ahead and purchase it.. just be mindful that it may not be what the original maker produced .. i suppose you will hear all sorts of "reasons" for the difference in pics.. but ask yourself why would someone post a pic of the prototype when the product is already available (for a while now) does that make sense there is a lot going on with this particular modder that remains to be seen .. i can post a long list of inconsistencies and so called facts but in the end members will believe what they want to ... so with that said take it for what it's worth and ask to see a pic of the actual rep that you will be buying for those of you who wonder where the info came from,.... the factory that produced the original rep. claimed this is not theirs .. why would they claim that this is not theirs and a copy .. sort of like shooting themselves in the foot to do that ...don't you think .. since it doesn't matter to them what collector is selling it... and is the collector getting it from the factory or a secondary source ??? Since the original rep is availble to mainly factory collectors... sheesh.. too many inconsistencies and weak reasons for different pics and such there is a lot going on with the shipping ... if this modder is shipping himself why so many problems with the watches as QC is claimed and CG levers don't go loose during shipping .. common.. really that's not even believable. and more importantly where are the so called mods being done ??? but then again it's your money not mine .... spend it how you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I have just read this thread... Just to clarify. The pictures come from prototype of this model (there are actually a few more pictures from factory). No worry, it's from the same factory. The picture has been around even before the first buyer has this piece. Takashi's correct here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Takashi's correct here... ok then why is the pic a prototype and not the actual rep being sold since the CD has been out for a long while and the price has actually dropped (298 usd) why all the inconsistencies ?? if you are laying down money don't you want to see the actual item.. and not excuses as to why not ? with all the attention to detail from members spotting flaws, it may be correct to the mods on RWI but how are we supposed to know if it is not the actual pic of the original .. these questions are not to slight the RWI forum ... but there have been numerous postings regarding the work and validity of this collector/modder .. so again why would an outdated pic of a unfinished rep be used.. is this a factory pic ?? a pic from a factory collector ?? i think questions need to be asked in a way that dosen't get someone banned or told to "back off" .. why not post a pic of the actual watch being sold ?? what is there to hide.. if nothing then I can see no problem in posting the actual rep that will physically end up in the hands of the member purchasing it ?? I am posting on this forum because most, if not all of the inconsistencies have been addressed on the RWG .. and if Takashi is as you say "correct" then there is something wrong with posting a pic of a different watch altogether, and if it is the prototype then is that the rep that will be recieved ... sorry for being pesimistic .. but "bait and switch " does come to mind serial numbers are different as are a couple of other details of this rep as opposed to the one that was released by the factory and the forum collectors ... Is the RWI backing this modder and his sales ?? I think it would be prudent to explain this ... show one rep ..claim to sell another..and i don't believe it would do any good for someone to show a pic claiming that they bought one.. bottom line,... I think the pic should be of the actual rep being advertised and sold.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Lanikai, please take no offence but do you have any relation with "Cartel" dealers? The more I read the more it looks like if you were their representative or something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Lanikai, please take no offence but do you have any relation with "Cartel" dealers? The more I read the more it looks like if you were their representative or something.... well.. i was going to ask the gentlemen posting in defense of the collector who is advertising the CD with erroneous pics if they were in business or making a commission themselves as they are very detailed in their critic of dials and such ...yet for a watch with such obvious flaws they say nothing but ... it is the correct watch but different pic.. so i am to believe that detail is now out the window ?? and furthermore acceptable,..? when they post alway's the details of reps, to the genuines??? I take no offense. i speak as a member of the forum .. i "represent" no one, be it collector or RWG.... I thought everyone from Down Under was related through the "Penal Colony: theory of incest... But seriously,... are you guy's partners in the sale of these reps?? if not why take such personal intrigue to pics that are admittedly not even the correct ones?? look at the inner bezel like night and day.. no trim from the 12 to the 3 .. and you say it is the same watch ??.. so correct the pics and post the correct one.. simple .. no brainer really and we may want to stay on topic instead of misdirection planned posts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 And yet you keep supplying us with information that can only come from one source, are you not worried that someone may be using you to advance their own cause? Please understand that I am not accusing you of anything untoward but info from any one dealer must be taken with a grain of salt unless you have definite proof. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 And yet you keep supplying us with information that can only come from one source, are you not worried that someone may be using you to advance their own cause? Please understand that I am not accusing you of anything untoward but info from any one dealer must be taken with a grain of salt unless you have definite proof. Ken With all due respect Ken .. you can jump to conclusions.. as well you are.. there are numerous sources on the internet... i do inquire with several and came up with the same answers.. but the "glaring" if not smoking gun fact is that the pics are not of the original version and hold flaws.. do they not ?? are you saying that this is an acceptable practice to advertise one thing and sell another ?? then how do we know what we are really getting?? do you show pics of one cloth then send out another totally different brand of cloth after your customer pay's for the one he see's in the pic? are my questions out of line.. I don't think they are... one product shown.. pay .. get another totally different one..?? and I am the one being "so called' manipulated.?? is there a language barrier here?? seems like we are on totally different pages..or is it too close to the bone? why not ask why these pics are not the watch actually being sold.. very simple actually Ken.. change the pic to show the actual rep being sold and delivered.. is that all that members have to fall back on is accusing me of ulterior motives.. or are more members being sponsored than we know about ?? My loyalty .. if you want to call it that is to the members of this forum.. and since the member based is shared, this post was for info.. I ... correct me if this is out of line was determining my post as per the pics posted of the IWC CD .. it was not the CD that most of us bought on initial release.. nothing wrong with that .. but be up and up with it.. how is this supposed to benefit anyone but members ??.. See,..now it is i that am confused by your post Ken.... you are a moderator and supposedly by-partisan.. yet a statement referring to the "cartel" and my allegiance seems out of place .. don't you think ?? Makes one wonder.... the mods that have come back from this collector seem all to familiar.. like a signature of sorts.. if this forum is to safeguard against scams and fraud .. then it should be straight across the board ... i have no vested interest in any collector !! my questions went out to a lot of members.. there are dozens of members who actively market and advertise for their respective collectors.. i never do and yet you make this statement ?? a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.. this post was, and is intended to benefit members ... nuf said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Ok without getting in to any kind of to and fro here one thing I can say for certain is that should any customer get anything other than the pictured watch, we are going to hear about it. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Well... I just came back from the EU gtg and it's really interesting on how this thread has develop. Lanikai, may I know where do you get that picture from? I have received it from a reliable source who I can't name it here. I am 100% sure that I have this same picture (even the same filename) long before the 2007CD was released to the market (even before Josh and Andrew posted it on their websites as prototypes). Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to question your credibility... I am sorry that I don't understand your post about RWI part. It's late here and I have to reread it tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I have just read this thread... Just to clarify. The pictures come from prototype of this model (there are actually a few more pictures from factory). No worry, it's from the same factory. The picture has been around even before the first buyer has this piece. Takashi.. why is a pic of the prototype being shown and you not the collector claiming it is the same rep and the same factory.. if so then why the different pic that shows an altogether different watch ?? eith your attention to detail in dials .. being the one to correctly identify flaws on reps. .. i just find it odd that you are "defending' an obvious error .. weather it be in the pic or the watch itself.. "simply" put why not update the pic to show the watch that is really being sold .. does that not sense to you ?? My first and foremost concern was the watch in the pic on RWI was not and is not the original released CD.. look at the inner bezel .. you gonna tell me that "you' don't see a difference ?? when someone say's they are not trying to do something .. they usually are.. would "you" buy a rep or anything for that matter knowing it was a dfferent advertised picture than what was being shipped ?? unless you have a vested interest in this collector .. what is the problem to correct the pic ?? so if members do buy the rep .. they will know what to expect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Any links to the mentioned thread/For Sale? I did not say there is no difference. You have mentioned all the differences already (inner bezel, serial no. to name a few). What I said was this picture has been around even before Andrew/Josh/Whoever posted it on their sites as prototype. I received this picture shortly after CD2006 was on the market. It was picture of prototype CD2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Any links to the mentioned thread/For Sale? I did not say there is no difference. You have mentioned all the differences already (inner bezel, serial no. to name a few). What I said was this picture has been around even before Andrew/Josh/Whoever posted it on their sites as prototype. I received this picture shortly after CD2006 was on the market. It was picture of prototype CD2007. I don't think i need to hunt for the sale thread as i am sure it has been removed or altered..of course .. but the pic posted on the start of this thread was the one that was advertised .. anyway.. i think members are aware of it so "if" it is still around then info was shared by all parties .. except the collector that posted it.. besides.. aren't you a mod on RWI, so you should know and have access to the info if it is around or gone ? and to clarify I believe you stated that the watch is the same as the original release but the pic is of the prototype bottom line we should have the same pictured rep as the one that we get doesn't matter which pic .. before .. after.. makes no difference to me as long as it's the watch we finally end up with.. thanks Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Lanikai- Well now I may be a little confused but here are the facts I have gleaned: - There is now a rep of a rep being sold by a different factory for less money. It is not unusual for different versions to emerge. Hopefully it is less money and people can choose based on their budget. If it is not less money and is inferior to what is readily available that is an important point to be made so that people are not misled. - It is mentioned that there is only one collector selling the item and he is not showing pictures of the actual item being sold. Obviously this is not good. If it is happening here we want to know about it. Based on your last post it is clear you are referring to TWP. When I look in his section I see he has not relisted that particular item here since November where IMHO he clearly was using the prototype pics which many of us were privy to prior to release. Based on the price in that listing I would have guessed it is the original piece. Someone who has bought it from him should review it. As for Repgeeks and RWI where it sounds like the lite version is currently being offered I asume you have posted the same concern; - But the other implication of the last post is that you believe the modder is more generally offering modded watches at higher prices which in reality are being done at the factory with ensuing quality control issues and he is charging as if he had a craftsman do it. IMHO, this should be a separate post as it is a larger issue. I hope this is not the case. In any case pictures are worth a 1,000 words and we should have some feedback shortly as to whether this is the case as he has been conducting his respect sale. Those people who are jumping in head first should know what they are getting themselves into. There is no free lunch. Finally, another lower cost version from a different factory is never troubling. HBB Lite has allowed many folks who could not otherwise buy one to enjoy theirs. Selling that lesser version as a premium version is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Why would you think I should hunt for the for sale thread which I have no idea who was it from? No, I don't read all posts neither have I the ability to read an altered post/a deleted post. I have never seen a member received the prototypes piece too... If you have references that would be great. I would be interested which dealer sold it to him/her. Yes, let's see whether the piece is different from the pictures. EDIT: I have searched TWP section on RWI. This watch is not mentioned there. Edited February 17, 2008 by takashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Why would you think I should hunt for the for sale thread which I have no idea who was it from? No, I don't read all posts neither have I the ability to read an altered post/a deleted post. I have never seen a member received the prototypes piece too... If you have references that would be great. I would be interested which dealer sold it to him/her. Yes, let's see whether the piece is different from the pictures. EDIT: I have searched TWP section on RWI. This watch is not mentioned there. Well, it is good that no one recieved the pieces that were in the original pic.. and, that thread probably went "invisible" into cyber space somewhere.. since when i originally posted this I wasn't going to link to your forum.. just a heads up is all ... and no I am not trying to "prove" right or wrong... so i defer "references" to the fact that the thread and AD are now invisible.. thanks for your help in cleaning this matter up...Takashi .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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