A Mini-Project ... Gone Wrong

[Watchwatcher]

Ever since I saw the PAM Fiddy for the first time several years ago, I liked it. Something about the simplicity, the clean lines, the bulbous crystal. It is in my opinion a design statement and yet completely utilitarian.

Only one problem although my wrists are not tiny at about 7.5-8 inches diameter, the 47mm fiddy is a bit too large to be comfortable for me. So I opted for the 44mm "mini-Fiddy".

I was able to find one with the decorated asian 6497 movt, which is a very solid movement and actually looks pretty nice through the display back. Naturally, the watch needed a decent lume job from the maestro in Canada.

As an additional touch, I had the crystal double AR'd by Jakub -- which cuts down the glare on an otherwise very glare prone crystal. However from what I can tell the AR is basically only on the top lateral surface and not on the rounded sides (no matter, it still helps).

Finally I did some compound polishing of the inner edges of the crown guard (this is a manual wind and sharp edges are not comfortable for daily winding), and also did the hot glue fix to the crown lever, which really does a good job of giving it a nice tight quality feel when opening and closing.

The strap is a custom oval croc--part of a new line from banda.com . Although I tend toward bracelets, I find this croc strap is very soft and extremely comfortable and would highly recommend it. Keep in mind this is a fantasy from the very start, so I'm afraid I have not attempted to adhere to any strict standards of authenticity--just wanted a nice watch with a great look.

Here are some pics:

4/09/08 UPDATE:

See last reply for the sad update... maybe you can advise me on next steps???

Edited April 9, 2008 by Watchwatcher

[FxrAndy]

very nice looking indeed, got the fiddy look with out the size, i am sure there are a few people who are put off by the size of the fiddy but love the look of it.

[Guest sol g]

I love the Mini!

Just wondering.......

So you put AR on the origional mineral crystal?

These are know to crack and or shatter. Thats why there discontinued.

Or did you find a saphire crystal that fits?

If so I would love to know where I can buy one.

Thanks

[sssurfer]

Great watch, watchwatcher! Thanks for posting, I also got a very good hint from it on what strap shape is better to a mini-fiddy!

So you put AR on the origional mineral crystal?

These are know to crack and or shatter. Thats why there discontinued.

Or did you find a saphire crystal that fits?

If so I would love to know where I can buy one.

Some time ago I made an extensive search about crystals exploding, and I found that it was 99% more likely to happen with sapphire crystals (DSN's excluded) than mineral crystals*. It was even doubt that any mineral crystals ever exploded.

I also never happen to read of an explosion on a mini-fiddy, just 47mm fiddies and 1950-case 44mm models with sapphire crystal like the 212 and 213.

To your question about a sapphire crystal that would fit the mini-fiddy, I suppose that one from a 212 / 213 / 253 would. I did not try it yet, though.

BTW, welcome to the forum! (to your posting time after the three months lurking time, I mean )

* This makes sense, as sapphire is more scratch-resistant than glass, but less crack-resistant. This is due to glass having an amorphous micro-structure while sapphire has a crystalline micro-structure. So, glass is more elastic and therefore more resistant to those tensions and deformations that make domed sapphire crystals explode.

Replacing the original crystal with DSN crystal brings safety because of the higher thickness of DSN sapphire, not because of a sapphire-vs-glass issue.

[Guest sol g]

theres atleast 3 people on RWI that had there Mini Fiddy crystals explode. I can look it up again but I know I have done some research because I love Mini Fiddys.

[sssurfer]

theres atleast 3 people on RWI that had there Mini Fiddy crystals explode. I can look it up again but I know I have done some research because I love Mini Fiddys.

Good to know, thanks. I missed them, maybe it happened after my former research. And it's a while I am unable to connect to RWI.

Still they look as a small minority in comparison with all the exploded 127/212/213.

I suppose the mini-fiddy is also bought in lower numbers than those other models, so statistic is undoubtly biased, but...

[Tom Hawkes]

theres atleast 3 people on RWI that had there Mini Fiddy crystals explode. I can look it up again but I know I have done some research because I love Mini Fiddys.

Are there minifiddys with sapphire crystal? And the ones that did explode, what crystal did they have?

I never liked a watch as much as the minifiddy.. When that thing explodes, I will too. ;(

[capice]

job well done WW, love the finish and the strap....

[alant]

Does that mean 47mm Fiddy other than those from DSN run the risk of exploding?

[Tom Hawkes]

Obviously yes.

Don't know whose pictures these are but anyway:

[alant]

Exploding is one thing if got hurt by the glass bits it will be quite upsetting!

[solchitlins]

here's some links:

http://www.replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewt...hilit=exploding

http://www.replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewt...hilit=exploding

http://www.replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewt...;hilit=low+dome

Edited February 15, 2008 by solchitlins

[Watchwatcher]

very interesting comments on the crystal explosion phenomenon. i had assumed the crystal on this was sapphire when i purchased it. if you look at the side angle pic, you see that the crystal is clear with a slight whitish hue. that would give me the impression it is sapphire. given that the price was only $150, it could well be mineral, but mineral usually has a bluish/greenish hue, which this does not.

if i had known these had a tendency to shatter, i probably wouldn't have had it AR coated (so thanks for not telling me sooner! ). The AR is applied in a perfect circle on the lateral face of the crystal, and if you look closely under bright light, it does not appear that the AR coating covers the rounded shoulders of the crystal -- this may have been the trick used by Jakub to avoid exploding it. I really have no idea.

[deltatahoe]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure the exploding crystal problem was with non-DSN sapphire crystals for 47mm fiddys

i'm also pretty certain that sapphire crystals were never made for any versions of the the mini-fiddy (that is if there are multiple versions, which i doubt to be the case). i think your observation re: the low likelihood of having a sapphire crystal on a $150 watch (these days) was spot on.

so, i think it's safe to say that you shouldn't have any concerns about your crystal exploding, and interestingly enough, you probably just increased the scratch resistance of your crystal by having it AR coated by jakub's coater.

congrats on getting your project completed -- the results look great

btw, i've got a similar (albeit a little different) project in the works at the moment as well

deltatahoe

[Tom Hawkes]

Judging by the links to the RWI threads the only crystals that did explode were in fact mineral crystals and not sapphire. Obviously davidsen was just the only one to sell real sapphire crystals..

There are around 2 or 3 people on RWI telling about exploding crystals on their mini fiddys. One after months of use. However the danger on exploding crystals on the mini should be smaller as on the 1950.

I have ordered 2 acryl crystals from cousins just to be on the safe side though. I just don't know if to switch the crystal right away or wait till the mineral breaks..

[sssurfer]

Judging by the links to the RWI threads the only crystals that did explode were in fact mineral crystals and not sapphire.

I already addressed it here and here .

Most of those members were merely assuming that their crystal was glass just because it exploded. Others told it glass on unreliable tests. While prices were speaking sapphire.

Actually, I am so confident on what I am telling that I chose glass 212 for myself.

(Btw -- even if this means nothing -- it did not yet explode. )

[Tom Hawkes]

sssurfer, you made my day. i was expecting my mini fiddy to go ballistic on me every minute.

i did know this:

"* This makes sense, as sapphire is more scratch-resistant than glass, but less crack-resistant. This is due to glass having an amorphous micro-structure while sapphire has a crystalline micro-structure. So, glass is more elastic and therefore more resistant to those tensions and deformations that make domed sapphire crystals explode."

but somehow everyone was talking about synthetic sapphire being mineral and therefore exploding that i thought they had to be right.

however i am a little more assured now that the crystal will not poke my eye while having a glance at that nice golden hands after reading your other posts.

[solchitlins]

Well the one Dude on RWI did have his MINI FIDDY MINERAL CRYSTAL explode on an airplane and the US Air Marshal was not amsued, there is also another guy that had his MINI FIDDY MINERAL CRYSTAL explode while it was sitting in his watch case with no body in the room.

So just be warned.

imho

[sssurfer]

i am a little more assured now that the crystal will not poke my eye while having a glance at that nice golden hands

Well the one Dude on RWI did have his MINI FIDDY MINERAL CRYSTAL explode ... there is also another guy that had his MINI FIDDY MINERAL CRYSTAL explode...

So just be warned.

Yes Tom Hawkes, I was not meaning that you are guaranteed that your mini-fiddy will not explode.

Just that -- contrarily from the common believing -- glass is safer than sapphire.

Still not 100% safe, though.

I actually got two 212 and one mini-fiddy. All them glass. None of them exploded yet. They are quite recent acquisitions, though, with the oldest 212 being with me through 6 months, and the mini-fiddy just 1 month.

---

On a side note:

as I already declared somewhere else, I too find it is an excellent idea to put double AR coat on glass.

As the scratch resistance of the AR coat is higher than that of glass, and lower than that of sapphire, the final result is that double AR coat makes the glass better, and the sapphire worse.

Naturally this only refers to scratch-resistance, not crack-resistance.

[sssurfer]

Ok, I just made a quick review of the mini-fiddy explosions that have been quoted here after having been reported on RWI.

Results:

1 .The explosion on airflight (wow, that sounds scary! ) was of a fiddy, not a mini-fiddy (Rogerwine's watch, reported by himself and by Moderator crick on two separate threads).

It was an "Ultimate Fiddy w/Sapphire Crystal" from Andrew.

Another example of a member who wrongly assumed that he got scammed by the dealer getting a glass crystal instead of a sapphire crystal just because it exploded.

2. One mini-fiddy explosion was not an explosion, it was just a popping off out of the bezel, in one single piece (THOR509's watch, reported by himself).

So, just a poorly pressed crystal.

3. The last one was the only true mini-fiddy crystal explosion (lumpyone's watch, reported by himself).

In the end, what we have here is just one mini-fiddy exploded in two forums. While fiddies' and 212's explosions are countless.

I stay on my thesis.

I also stay on the fact that verifying what I hear, before reporting it, helps me in avoiding to spread incorrect info.

My sincere apologies to Watchwatcher on this hijacking his thread. I just could not let incorrect info furtherly spread around, especially denigrating his own watch. It is a great watch. And it is also safer than a sapphire one.

[Watchwatcher]

"My sincere apologies to Watchwatcher on this hijacking his thread."

None required, this is like watching a new episode of "Mythbusters" ... great stuff... mystery of the exploding crystal. Anyone have any theories on WHY a crystal would explode and whether this happens/happened DURING coating procedure?

[sssurfer]

this is like watching a new episode of "Mythbusters"

"Mythbusters"?!?

Wow, it sounds appealing!

I hate I have nothing alike that here in my country...

... great stuff... mystery of the exploding crystal. Anyone have any theories on WHY a crystal would explode and whether this happens/happened DURING coating procedure?

AFAIK there have been no mentions so far of it happening during AR coating.

And I highly doubt it will ever happen, as exploding is likely to require that the crystal is sitting inside the bezel. So tensions / pressures / deformations can rise between the crystal and the bezel and bring it to the cracking point.

A few reports involved special occurrences. I find it fascinating what happened on the airflight. The fiddy exploded when the aircraft was landing -- i.e., minutes when the air pressure in the passenger compartment was quickly rising.

If that fiddy was water resistant, it is likely that on those minutes the air inside the watch happened to be at a lower pressure than the air outside. So, the air outside acted like a press on the crystal.

The fact that the watch did not explode instead while the airplain was taking off lets us speculate that when the pressure is instead acting from the inside of the crystal to the outside, this does not make the crystal break.

In other terms, a crystal seems to explode when it tries to enlarge its diameter relatively to the bezel -- or naturally when the bezel reduces its diameter relatively to the crystal, what can happen e.g. because of sudden changes in temperature.

But many reports involved no special occurrences. It is likely that those watches already had tensions hidden between their crystals and bezels, and some undetectable micro-events carried them up to the cracking point.

E.g., on the watch that exploded while it was on the winding box, we can speculate about the effect of the constantly changing gravity vector's direction that happens when on such a box...

[TeeJay]

I've had my 127 for coming up 3 months, and, as yet, its saphire crystal is unexploded

*waits for watch to explode just to spite me *

On topic...

Absolutely awesome project, and a fine watch

[Watchwatcher]

OK Folks, some of you mentioned the phenomenon of "exploding mineral crystals" ... and that was after I had sent my crystal to K2222 for double AR coating. The watch came back with crystal intact... so no problems... or so I thought.

Well, this last weekend I sat down in the living room and notice a light scuff mark on the shoulder of the bulgy crystal. First reaction was, bummer, but it happens eventually... maybe i can buff it out at some point. Didn't think anything more of it, then a couple days later I was sitting at my desk and just as I put my hands on the computer keyboard, I hear kind of "POP!" and see a 1/2" crack forming on the 3:00 side of the crystal. Didn't stop there, once the crack started it just kept going eventually going all the way around to about 9:00 until a huge chunk of the crystal popped out, fine shards of crystal all over, etc. WOW, what a surprise... I will add pictures to this post a little later.

HERE'S THE BIG QUESTION... this is a 44mm Mini-fiddy with the unusual bulgy crystal... any ideas on whether this can be replaced with a similarly shaped sapphire crystal -- i have no idea if one exists or where to source. Thanks!!!

Edited April 9, 2008 by Watchwatcher

[deltatahoe]

@watchwatcher, this is sad news

to answer your questions, i am unaware of any 44mm sapphire fiddy-style crystals available anywhere....if you do manage to find one, please post about it here, as i have a mineral crystal mini-fiddy project currently underway; i certainly don't want to end up with a busted crystal....

best of luck

deltatahoe