Ziggy alternatives?

[cls]

EDIT:

Servicing these movements are not a simple job. Expertise and specialised tools are required. Indeed you can take online courses and ETA7750 CD ROM which "offshore" has, is a good start. It has this animation to make learning more interesting.

Just a side note, you need to invest time and money to acquire this skill. If you have them... Well, you can make yourself as The Zigmeister clone

As a former amateur watchmaker and having serviced many movements, it's not as simple as you're making it. Watchmaking requires great knowledge and great skill. It can be years before you are comfortable disassembling a 7750 and are confident you know where all the parts go. If you don't believe me, try taking a three month course and then re-stud a hairspring.

While there are many fine watchmakers out there (and The Zigmeister is one,) don't belittle the time and effort it takes to become accomplished. It's a bit like taking a CD ROM course on surgery and then wanting to work as a doctor.

[takashi]

As a former amateur watchmaker and having serviced many movements, it's not as simple as you're making it. Watchmaking requires great knowledge and great skill. It can be years before you are comfortable disassembling a 7750 and are confident you know where all the parts go. If you don't believe me, try taking a three month course and then re-stud a hairspring.

While there are many fine watchmakers out there (and The Zigmeister is one,) don't belittle the time and effort it takes to become accomplished. It's a bit like taking a CD ROM course on surgery and then wanting to work as a doctor.

Attend a watchmaking school if necessary Lange und S

[TeeJay]

Choice is the correct word.

Just like you have a "choice" as to which dealer you give your business to, I as a part-time watchsmith excercise my "choice" as to who I choose to offer my services to. This is a hobby I choose to do a few nights a week to pass my time and help others. I am not sure why some people take issue with my choice.

I make my choices based on what I see take place on the forum, and how people deal with me. For example, if your a nasty person on the forum (not necessarily towards me), or if you book an appointment with me and then stand me up (this after you're sent 2 upcoming appointment reminder emails, and you still fail to respond), or if you don't have common courtesy to send me a simple "Thanks" after I help you out on a PM, your not someone I want to deal with. If you waste my time, you'll only have one chance to do it. If you actively promote or support someone who has been shown to have done shoddy watch work for members, I don't want to work with you, and I especially don't want to have to clean up their mistakes.

It would be wonderful if there were numerous watchsmiths to choose from, unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone who has been here over a year, knows too well that what is posted on the forum concerning shoddy workmanship and practices by some watchsmiths, is only the tip of the iceberg. This has been proven true on more than one occasion. The names of these individuals are well known. What really bothers me is how some members can post that someone's work has been nothing but excellent, when recent posts would say otherwise. That either means the persons who have had bad experiences (multiple ones, over many months) are the exceptions, or they are lying about their bad experience. Since it was shown that they weren't lying at all, stating that the workmanship is nothing but excellent, does a disservice to those members who don't have the luxery of our collective past experiences.

As for my being sensitive, nothing could be further from the truth. I speak my mind, much to the dismay of a few members, and I do know the quality of the work I send out. I stand behind what I do 110%, and my honesty includes refunding customers money when a job turns out to be less costly than estimated, I have even sent back $5 in overpayment. That doesn't mean every transaction is perfect or everyone is happy. Take for instance the member who's watches were in house for 6 months and who sent me no less than 135 emails during that period. He was upset at me for many reasons, including having "rushed" him in his decisions, not having provided "enough" detail for his liking...as well as a bunch of other reasons...you can't please everyone I guess, not even if you answer all 135 messages. Thankfully he decided to take his business elsewhere.

The reality is that anyone can put up a shingle stating that they offer lume or watch mods, the problem is that most do so without even a basic understanding or appreciation of what it takes to work on watches. Watchsmithing courses are available on-line, but learning takes a back to seat to getting at the real reason for offering a service...

That is all I have to say about this subject.

RG

I don't think people are taking issue with your choice as such, more possible consequences/results of it. People are often told they can buy a less than perfect watch, and then have modifications made to improve it, so that's often the mentality someone might buy with (ie ignore poor lume and cannon pinion (for example), but buy the watch anyway as they know it can be remedied). Yours, is the name which is mentioned as the person to go to, when people want mods done.

Now, as other smiths are less recommended, some people might only want to deal with you, and, if you are unavailable, or unwilling to work with them, for whatever reason, they are left with the situation of wanting work done to a watch, but no other 'ports of call' to try in commissioning the work, leaving them with a watch, which, if left un-modded, the would likely not have bought 'as is', nor wear 'as is', so they feel that they're not only down the opportunity to get the watch worked on, but, left with something they don't really want, a bit of a double-whammy.

You are, of course, entitled to choose who you want to do business with. Just remember though, that some people do not take kindly to being told that, (No one likes the feeling of not 'making the cut') and that honesty might even turn away clients who you would have worked with, as they might not like that approach. (For the record, I totally understand and agree with your view on things, I'm just pointing out how others might be viewing the situation, and why people might be 'taking issue')

[Edit to add]

My point being, that if there where other recommended smiths available, giving people the choice of who to go to, rather than relying on you choosing to do business with them, then such rejections might not be taken so personally, as they would know they still have options. I've found people are their most abusive and hostile when they feel they have no options in a situation (whatever that maybe), and when they've missed the only option.

Just my .2c

PS This isn't meant as a personal attack, it's just my instinct as a Libra to try and be a mediator and get both sides of a story across so people can reach a better conclusion.

Edited February 22, 2008 by TeeJay

[chad]

I certainly am not criticizing your choice not to work on any of my watches. You should be able to not work on my watches even if it is because you do not like the brand shampoo I use. As far as being sensitive.... We have never had a personal conversation and my only source of irritation for you would be that in a posting I wrote that I felt that the best hand lume in the world on a watch such as a Cousteau simply does not look like the machine used to do the gen. I have praised your work again and again. So it is not a matter of insulting you. I even stated that your hand lume was the best of the best in that same thread. Anyway, I do not wish to make this thread about The Zigmeister. Everyone knows his work is top top notch. I just want to know where I can get my 7750 serviced when it breaks down because I am surely not going to stop speaking my mind about certain watches and mods that are sold and performed here as a business in order to stay in good favor with another member. It is a public forum to discuss ideas and thoughts.

I guess for me I think of your work as an art form and......

If you were a concert violinist and someone did not like the tempo of the second movement of your Beethoven Sonata you might say your reasons for doing it this way and if the listener was more opened minded about it they might enjoy it. One might even invite them back for your next concert and tell them to give your interpretations another listen. Maybe even a free ticket at the box office for them.

You might be surprised that that person ends up becoming your biggest fan and supporter. Who knows, I could have become the hand lume spokesperson but not if I was told my opinion was foolish and wrong. Never underestimate being gracious to your audience and you certainly have for the most part with all of the articles and time helping others with questions and concerns. I certainly do not want to take that away from you.

chad

p.s.

Maybe you can guess what I do for a living now

Choice is the correct word.

Just like you have a "choice" as to which dealer you give your business to, I as a part-time watchsmith excercise my "choice" as to who I choose to offer my services to. This is a hobby I choose to do a few nights a week to pass my time and help others. I am not sure why some people take issue with my choice.

I make my choices based on what I see take place on the forum, and how people deal with me. For example, if your a nasty person on the forum (not necessarily towards me), or if you book an appointment with me and then stand me up (this after you're sent 2 upcoming appointment reminder emails, and you still fail to respond), or if you don't have common courtesy to send me a simple "Thanks" after I help you out on a PM, your not someone I want to deal with. If you waste my time, you'll only have one chance to do it. If you actively promote or support someone who has been shown to have done shoddy watch work for members, I don't want to work with you, and I especially don't want to have to clean up their mistakes.

It would be wonderful if there were numerous watchsmiths to choose from, unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone who has been here over a year, knows too well that what is posted on the forum concerning shoddy workmanship and practices by some watchsmiths, is only the tip of the iceberg. This has been proven true on more than one occasion. The names of these individuals are well known. What really bothers me is how some members can post that someone's work has been nothing but excellent, when recent posts would say otherwise. That either means the persons who have had bad experiences (multiple ones, over many months) are the exceptions, or they are lying about their bad experience. Since it was shown that they weren't lying at all, stating that the workmanship is nothing but excellent, does a disservice to those members who don't have the luxery of our collective past experiences.

As for my being sensitive, nothing could be further from the truth. I speak my mind, much to the dismay of a few members, and I do know the quality of the work I send out. I stand behind what I do 110%, and my honesty includes refunding customers money when a job turns out to be less costly than estimated, I have even sent back $5 in overpayment. That doesn't mean every transaction is perfect or everyone is happy. Take for instance the member who's watches were in house for 6 months and who sent me no less than 135 emails during that period. He was upset at me for many reasons, including having "rushed" him in his decisions, not having provided "enough" detail for his liking...as well as a bunch of other reasons...you can't please everyone I guess, not even if you answer all 135 messages. Thankfully he decided to take his business elsewhere.

The reality is that anyone can put up a shingle stating that they offer lume or watch mods, the problem is that most do so without even a basic understanding or appreciation of what it takes to work on watches. Watchsmithing courses are available on-line, but learning takes a back to seat to getting at the real reason for offering a service...

That is all I have to say about this subject.

RG

[vmena]

That means I'm blocked then. Interesting.

It's no true... The Zigmeister turns off his PM box time to time... I had same issue and finally I made business with him...

[chad]

On his section of the forum he writes that if a PM does not go through that you are blocked.

Also if he was not blocked I assume The Zigmeister would have mentioned that in his post above.

It's no true... The Zigmeister turns off his PM box time to time... I had same issue and finally I made business with him...

[jdavis]

Alternative to The Zigmeister?

I'm sorry to inform you sir but, from where I stand The Zigmeister has no equal and therefore there can be no real alternative. You may not agree with his business methods but you certainly can not argue with his ability and skill in the world of horology.

Watch making is a dying trade in this age of electronic time keeping. The younger generations don't relate to a mechanical watch much less a manual wind model. Many don't wear watches and prefer to rely on "do all" electronic devices for the time of day. This is the future we face. If you know a good watch maker, it would pay dividends to forge a good relationship with him/her.

[TeeJay]

Alternative to Ziggy?

I'm sorry to inform you sir but, from where I stand Ziggy has no equal and therefore there can be no real alternative. You may not agree with his business methods but you certainly can not argue with his ability and skill in the world of horology.

Watch making is a dying trade in this age of electronic time keeping. The younger generations don't relate to a mechanical watch much less a manual wind model. Many don't wear watches and prefer to rely on "do all" electronic devices for the time of day. This is the future we face. If you know a good watch maker, it would pay dividends to forge a good relationship with him/her.

Chad was not arguing against Ziggy's abilities or skills. Not once. He was simply asking for an alternative. As mentioned above, if Ziggy does not want to do business with someone, he won't. That's his privelage. That's his right. But. Where does that leave the person who needs something done with their watch? As mentioned, if people don't have options available, that's when they can get frustrated at situations, when the only other option, is no longer viable (for whatever reason) As mentioned, Ziggy is extremely busy. Having more approved smiths available, would help spread that load, and give customers the choice of who to do business with, rather than hoping that someone wants to do business with them. It is another example of something I have mentioned before:

On RWG, you don't choose Dealer. Dealer chooses you

Having more smiths available is not a mark of disrespect to Ziggy. There are several recommended dealers available for many items, that is not disrespectful to those other dealers, and the same principle applies here

[magagne]

Having other watchsmith will be a big + for all of us cuz there's a lot of demand about servicing Asian mvt. But the problem I see is, finding a trusty watchsmith, and that is not so easy.

The Zigmeister proof his reputation and build it with a lot of time, reviews that showing his competence, patience by trying to reach perfection, and his generosity to help some of us here. I can only see doing business with an other watchsmith, with the same confidence, only if this watchsmith proof his competence, and that can/will take time. But I thing EVERYBODY is welcome to show what he (or even her) can do here, and what a nice opportunity to show to us your competence. It's the law of offer/demand/quality of service. A watchsmith who charge me $100 for a full servicing, one, maybe he don't have a lot of experience, two, he just cut corner, three, it's just an apprentice and want to practice his talent, and his client know it and want to give him/her a chance to practice at a lower cost. But the FIRST quality of a watchsmith, IMHO, it's his/her HONESTY.

Just me two cents.