Please take a moment to chime in...

[Ztech]

Ok, so I've been here, in the rep world for a while now, and I've come to a fork in the road and would like to ask your opinion. Here are my choices...

1. I've talked to a few moders and I've been told that they can custom build me the "best" rep available for about $600 to $850. Most likely a PAM111H or 111E.

2. I've already put in X $$$'s, so I can probably round up about the same amount of $$$ I've put into reps so far and possibly buy a clean used gen PAM and forget this quest as it'll never materialize. Plus I'll never be happy with a rep.

3. You guys are tired of my pesky questions and requests for advice and you'd like for this noob to sit quietly by the wall like the rest of the noobs.

So what do you guys think I should do? I'm really particular due to the fact that this is my first journey into reps and I've seen people wearing some bad reps before and that has always left a bad taste in my mouth for wearing something that'll be spotted as a rep easily.

I know that there are dealers with good reps out there, but so far I haven't had the pleasure of ordering from one and I don't think I want to run through everyone of them till I find one (see #2 above). Plus, all the negative posts I see from others who've ordered from dealers with negative outcomes don't help either. Not to mention that I've already had a not so good experience with a purchase from a forum member.

So what do you guys think? I've got thick skin so lay it on me. Thanks in advance.

z

[FxrAndy]

peronaly i like wearing reps and can live with the small faults and i also know that gens oftern have the same faults and disrepancys, i thin k spending that much cash for one perfect rep is wrong when you can buy a used gen for just a bit more, i think reps should be cheep fun, i have been tempted to spend $500 even today on a rep, (a very good top class rep that i gould never attain the gen off in a long long time) but i have other prioritys right now. Life is for enjoying, do how you feel and do what makes you happy!

[Geeeyejo]

Years ago I purchased reps and was invariably disappointed with the quality and reliability - hence for my 40th B-day I treated myself to a gen Omega SMP - wore it exclusively for nearly 6 years until I recently stumbled back into the rep watch world. I now have 7 reps - 4 of which are "perfect" enough to pass as gens to all but AD's and replica watch forum devotees. I get all my reps in China Town in NYC and save upwards of $100 plus plus versus most web based dealers. Sure lume is not perfect, no AR, short canon pinion, my fiddy does not have the swan neck regulator - but all are very functional works of art. The wind up Pam movements seem fairly bulletproof and I expect long life from most of these.

Looking back not sure I would have purchased the Gen SMP...

[Sweattdogg]

Plus I'll never be happy with a rep.

z

This is the answer to your question. If you will never be happy with a rep than buy the real deal. If you can deal with 98% or so go with the rep.

[crick0234]

i wear reps with crappy fonts, or fantasy reps (i'm still trying to get that damn mini fiddy), or reps i just like (like the speedy reduced which is horribly wrong from the gen).

I wear it cuz i like the watch. If i dont like the crown, i'll swap it out. these things are based on my personal preferences. If i want something close to gen, that's a rep, regardless of its fault. It's CLOSE enough. i'm happy enough. If not, i go out and buy a gen?

When i bought the 42mm PO, i was REALLY happy with the rep. Then little things popped up here and there that i realized i just want the gen... so out i went, saved up for 3-5 months, and picked up a gen

[TeeJay]

2. I've already put in X $$$'s, so I can probably round up about the same amount of $$$ I've put into reps so far and possibly buy a clean used gen PAM and forget this quest as it'll never materialize. Plus I'll never be happy with a rep.

So what do you guys think I should do? I'm really particular due to the fact that this is my first journey into reps and I've seen people wearing some bad reps before and that has always left a bad taste in my mouth for wearing something that'll be spotted as a rep easily.

I think you answer the question yourself there, amigo. You'll never be happy with a rep, so buy the gen.

That said, I would point out, that, to the general public, PAMs are just 'big, ugly watches'. You might get someone stare at it on a bus, or have a hot female friend comment on it ( ) but you won't get any of the "is it real??!!" that goes with wearing a Rolex... Certainly not from everyday people. As I've said before, a rep will always be a rep, it can never become a gen. But. That's not to say that a rep can't be as good as a gen... Look at the 44MM on display a few threads up/down. Might be a fantasy watch, but it looks really nice, probably keeps good time (which, at the end of the day, is all they need to do ) and, isn't going to draw challenging questions from people other than "What is that?" Of course, that's then down to you to either say that it's a replica of a WWII Italian Navy diver's watch, or, it's a Real Panerai, which cost as much as the person's car All I'm saying, is, don't write reps off entirely, as you might find one that does satisfy you. Or, if nothing but gen will do, then, that's what you'll have to go with

[prince458]

This is the answer to your question. If you will never be happy with a rep than buy the real deal. If you can deal with 98% or so go with the rep.

BUMP

[Ztech]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all your comments.

It's not that I can't be satisfied by a rep. I've read enough to know that a rep will never be a gen. I guess what I'd really like to find is something that could be 95% close to the gen. I mean the last thing I'd want people to say as they saw it would be nice rep. I'd rather have the option to let them in on the little secret, if you will.

On top of all that, the process, or what seems like an arduous process, to obtain an "ultimate" rep seems to either cost almost, yeah I know, as much as a used gen or lead you down every wrong dead end before you realize that you've been wrong all along and the "other" dealer has got the goods. I guess that's the dilema I'm currently facing. It's, do I continue on the quest for quests sake or do I just turn back now and get a gen and never know what the journey would have been like. I've said this before, but I'd love to be able to own a genunie ultimate rep that I can be proud to wear.

Am I just being overly OCD???

[TeeJay]

Am I just being overly OCD???

Maybe a little. But, with good reason. Your first experiences with reps have not been positive (the 127 incident. How's that working out, by the way?) That's going to put you off, and only naturally so. Say you eat a bad meal at a restaurant, you might be wary of eating there again, or, of eating that particular dish again. It's only natural to be wary of things which have disappointed us in the past. But...

but I'd love to be able to own a genunie ultimate rep that I can be proud to wear.

If you buy one which has been well built (it need not even be the 'Ultimate' version of a watch, just one which has been well put together) with no glaring manufacturing faults (which are not the same as aesthetic flaws/tells) then you shouldn't need to feel ashamed or embarrassed to wear the watch in public or for people to look at it. If, as a watch, (regardless of aesthetic accuracy) it has been well built, then it will stand on its own merits, and people will view it as a nice watch.

I guess what I'd really like to find is something that could be 95% close to the gen. I mean the last thing I'd want people to say as they saw it would be nice rep. I'd rather have the option to let them in on the little secret, if you will.

Totally understandable, but, don't forget, watch enthusiasts (like on these forums) make up something like 0.1% of the population. While you might encounter someone who says they 'like watches', chances are, they're not going to know much about the subject itself. 99.9% of the population, are likely to not notice, or, those who do, likely won't even think "Is that fake?" unless, you happen to be wearing a Rolex. If you're wearing a Rolex, all bets are off. In people's mind, Rolex = Fake People are always going to ask/think "Is that fake?" simply because it is a Rolex. Wearing a PAM, on the other hand, is much less likely to get that response, simply because most folks won't have a clue as to what they're looking at. I've mentioned before, the time last summer when I was sitting on the bus wearing my 111h with jeans and a T-Shirt, and the guy who sat next to me, couldn't take his eyes off my wrist. He never said anything, but he was staring at my watch all the way into town. A few weeks ago, my wife and I were out with friends, when I noticed one of them was staring at my wrist. At first, I thought she was just trying to see the time (despite having a watch on herself) so I lifted my arm up. She carried on staring at it, then said "That's a really nice watch!" Didn't matter than my wife was standing right next to me, it still made me feel like a mack daddy to be thus complimented (It wouldn't've mattered if I'd been complimented on my watch/shoes/tattoos, compliments are always nice to receive) She didn't have a clue as to what the watch was (it was my 029a) she just liked the watch for 'how it looked'. That's the kind of reactions you can expect from a PAM (especially something like the 44MM) People are going to either think it looks 'big and ugly', or, think it looks nice.

The key thing to remember, is not how accurate the watch is to the gen counterpart (as most people won't even know those details to make a comparison) but how well made the watch itself is, ie, no dust under the crystal, no scratched hands ( ) crisp, clear dial markings, decent leather strap. When judging a watch by those standards (and that's all a non-watch enthusiast can judge it by) it doesn't matter how accurate to the gen counterpart it is, it will stand or fall on its own merits, and, most of the watches here, will certainly stand up to that kind of scrutiny. It's only the Canal St crap with the jumping second sweeps which will make a 'civilian' think "Is that fake?"

Edited March 15, 2008 by TeeJay

[Ztech]

Thanks TJ, I really appreciate that you took the time out to post your advice. I think you just hit the nail on the head. I guess what I'm looking for is a top quality rep. One that I can get "attached" to. Yes, my first step into the reps hasn't been that great and it has put me back a step, but other than a bit of frustration I guess it won't kill me. By the way, I'll try to get some pics up of her when I can. It''s just that I'm terrible at taking pictures.

I've decided to slow things down a bit and not get all impatient with this, as I think I've been. I've now got a few reps in hand and although they're far from satisfactory to me, they're the jump-off for some creative upgrades. So right now, I'm going to send a few pieces off to modders and wait till the right one comes along. The hard part is... I have no idea on how to tell if I am looking at a "keeper" or not. Every time I look at a for sale ad or a web site, I can't tell from left or right. I guess that's why I've been pestering everyone here for a pointer or advice on who (dealer) to buy from and what not. Every time I hear from someone that I should go with Davidsen, I see another negative write up about his product, which is confusing to say the least. I think that's what's been a bit frustrating to me, but I now know that in the rep game you have to have patience and take some chances. So, I've decided that I'll stick to this game and see where it'll take me...

So TJ, you don't have a dealer to recommend do ya?

[bbell6]

I think patience is the most important thing. There are not too many high quality, highly accurate reps for sale off the shelf. I think you are definitely looking for the one of the custom watches your refer to in your opening thread or a one-of-a-kind modded watch that occasionally gets sold in the for sale section.

The other option is to determine what you want the end watch to consist of and start aquiring parts (Jimmyzfu, Palps, etc), and assemble or have it assembled for you. I have decided to go the latter route. Unfortunatley, some of the parts are hard to get and it is a waiting game (hence the need for patience).

I think there are some special parts projects that you are well aware of that have been discussed recently. If and when these parts are finally made, they will probably fall into the Jimmysfu/Palp catagory as far as desireability (good thing to buy extras). If you collect the high quality parts long enough, you'll eventually end up with the ones you need (or be able to trade some of the ones you have for the ones you need). For example - I've been holding on to a DW Daytona case for a little while now. The way they are selling on ebay, I should be able to double or triple my money.

In the mean time, buy a quality non-branded or fantasy (ie Marina Militare) watch to hold you over. This way, you want have an original to compare it to, and won't be annoyed by the differences. Or for that matter, if you've got the money, buy a second hand genuine version of what you want. You can always sell it for close to what you have in it (if not more), and use it as guidance when constructing your "Ultimate Rep".

Good Luck,

B

[PAMman]

Every time that I respond to this type of thread my advice is the same and I am more & more convinced that it is the correct approach.

If you want the best modded rep of a PAM 111 type (E or H) buy neither. Instead, get a modded watch, but with the E type dial, a standard Swiss ETA 6497 movement (regular unaltered plates) and a solid SS B series caseback. The rep caseback is excellent and very accurate while the replicated 'Panerai' style movements won't fool anyone. The E type dial, which is the same for B - G series, is a more accurate replica than the H series dial anyhow and the solid SS caseback means that the rear is as close to perfect as it gets. Also no-one has been messing with the movement. It really is a no-brainer.

[Ztech]

Every time that I respond to this type of thread my advice is the same and I am more & more convinced that it is the correct approach.

If you want the best modded rep of a PAM 111 type (E or H) buy neither. Instead, get a modded watch, but with the E type dial, a standard Swiss ETA 6497 movement (regular unaltered plates) and a solid SS B series caseback. The rep caseback is excellent and very accurate while the replicated 'Panerai' style movements won't fool anyone. The E type dial, which is the same for B - G series, is a more accurate replica than the H series dial anyhow and the solid SS caseback means that the rear is as close to perfect as it gets. Also no-one has been messing with the movement. It really is a no-brainer.

Ok PAMman, I'm going to take your advice and try this out. So I'm gonna acquire these...

1. E type dial

2. ETA 6497 movement

3. SS B series caseback

Now my question is which SS case do I get? Will any do from any dealer? Thanks a bunch for showing me the road.

[TeeJay]

So TJ, you don't have a dealer to recommend do ya?

PM Sent

[scoobs1971]

Ok PAMman, I'm going to take your advice and try this out. So I'm gonna acquire these...

1. E type dial

2. ETA 6497 movement

3. SS B series caseback

Now my question is which SS case do I get? Will any do from any dealer? Thanks a bunch for showing me the road.

I would order the parts with Angus (Pure Time). For Superlume choose The Zigmeister and for single AR Chieftang or K2222.

[Ztech]

Ok, so now I'm on the hunt for those parts. Will I need matte black hands? Gloss? Thanks.

[PAMman]

Ok, so now I'm on the hunt for those parts. Will I need matte black hands? Gloss? Thanks.

Matt.