Enough is Enough with QC issues

[AMK000]

This watch keep in mind was the new quality inspected piece after the intial batch was rejected by the dealer because of QC issues. I had to wait a month to get the watch you are looking at. How would you react?

This is pure Marketing lies the dealer is telling you or his QC is very loose (he is only rejecting watches that simply dont function at all and all the rest pass through).

[Jawo]

Jay has offered me a new dial on my next order as well as a 5% discount in which I accepted. Good to know he gave good effort to keep me happy.

[xelorrolex]

Having an issue with my new JLC turby ($648+shipping)

The PR did'nt work (looks like the PR hand rubs against the dial and scratch the hours indicators) !

Furthermore, the lumes hours dots on the dial were missing !

The watch is awesome tough !

I contacted Angus who answers me promptely and tell me he did QC himself and did'nt noticed it before shipping.

He accepted to send me a replacement watch as soon as i send him the wrong one back

I will let you know;

Regards

Xel

Edited May 7, 2008 by xelorrolex

[Rolexman]

Having an issue with my new JLC turby ($648+shipping)

The PR did'nt work (looks like the PR hand rubs against the dial and scratch the hours indicators) !

Furthermore, the lumes hours dots on the dial were missing !

Bullsh*t... for that kind of money it has to be flawless! Every idiot can spot missing lume hour dots on the dial.

'Did a QC himself ' my ass!

Edited May 7, 2008 by Rolexman

[scoobs1971]

Over the past 2 years I've ordered most of my reps from Precious Time (PT) and Pure Time (Angus).

Although PT has an excellent QC and I can highly recommend him, 2 high beat 7750s turned out to be low beat after inspection by The Zigmeister.

I do believe, however, that PT wasn't aware of this and simply got fooled by the factory. But irrespective of the collector, you'll never know for 100% what's inside your watch unless you're a watchmaker.

Angus on the other hand has poor QC, but excellent after sales. Most of the reps I've bought from him had minor productional flaws (crooked markers, crooked hands, screws falling out of the movement, incorrectly installed Swanneck, scratched hands, wrongly installed stem). But he always corrects his mistakes by immediately sending replacement parts.

Since I've learned to do small repairs and mods to my watches and Angus has lower prices and a wider range of products than the EU collectors, I'm really fine with ordering from him and I'm taking for granted the possible inconvenience of waiting for replacement parts.

[JohnG]

There are some dealers here who have suffered and withstood attacks to their reputations, deserved or not, over the last 18 months for pricing, misrepresentation and gouging etc. We've been over that ad infinitum...but these "reputable" dealers are the only vendors in this black market who take some sense of responsibility for their product. I have had several watches that were less than perfect for one reason or another serviced to my satisfaction by the seller or refunded/credited. Yes, I agree...$400 is a lot of money for a watch...you would expect a Tissot for that much to perform flawlessly and stand up to close inspection but...we all know what we're buying here. Stay with the long timers for the best insurance and customer service.

Yes, we all know what we are buying and some of us are saying we don't like it.

I am going to watch EuroTimez because he seems to have the right idea. He mentions having to eat a watch that the factory would not take back. Let's say that watch cost 250 dollars to the end consumer. Even if every FIFTH watch was so bad that it could not be fixed AND the factory could not take it back, by adding 50 dollars to the cost of the watch (so charging 300 dollars) EuroTimez could still maintain the same margin and WE would all get good watches the FIRST time. I know they are reps and not perfect but there is no reason whatsoever that we can't ask for more (and get it). If EuroTimez proves himself, I will buy from him for sure. For my first watch I ended up going with another seller but I will switch the minute that I am convinced that he is the real deal (looking good so far) and he has a watch that I want.

I am thrilled by this thread by the way. I would love to see more like it. I would also love to see a thread where the dealers actively participate in these discussions so together we can all find solutions. But honestly that won't happen until they start getting hosed by really good dealers. I hope EuroTimez grows fast and gives them hell!

[Dizzy]

Totally agreed.

Ya i gotta agree also!!

I'd say 3 outta 5 have problems or fail prematurely.

if you ordered 100 seiko watches from wallmart valued at $300 each, how many do you think would be faulty or have QC issues? haha probably 1 or 2? For the amount these rep watches cost ($300+) there shouldnt be crowns falling off, missing dial markers or screws falling out of the movement... if i ordered 100 rep watches.. with my past experience... i would have about 50-60 bad watches. Thats rediculous for any product. But i guess when you can mass produce these things for $20 each then who cares if they fall apart. The cost of paying someone to QC then would probably cost more than the watch itself!

dizz

[xelorrolex]

... But i guess when you can mass produce these things for $20 each then who cares if they fall apart. The cost of paying someone to QC then would probably cost more than the watch itself!

dizz

May sound quite strange but i'm not sure that REP's QC are related to the price ! I dont know why either !

Xel

[JohnG]

But i guess when you can mass produce these things for $20 each then who cares if they fall apart. The cost of paying someone to QC then would probably cost more than the watch itself!

dizz

That would be true if you didn't have to deal with the consequences of NOT QCing the watches. But for the dealers here who repair or replace watches all the time, they have an interest in getting in right the first time. Does it cost them more to look at a watch closely for a few minutes and let it run for a day on a winder than to deal with the fallout when one out of two customers is unhappy and sending watches back for repair/replacement? Answering emails, handling the returned items, getting them repaired, and reshipping at the dealer's cost all takes time and money - usually it is money that they could have saved themselves with a MINIMUM of effort.

QC is not just in the customer's interest - it usually lowers total costs for the seller as well. Do anyone really think Dell or Bic pen or Timex or Tampax does QC out of the goodness of their heart? They do it because they make more money when they do it than when they don't do it.

Edited May 7, 2008 by JuanG

[xelorrolex]

But for the dealers here who repair or replace watches all the time, they have an interest in getting in right the first time (...)

QC is not just in the customer's interest - it usually lowers total costs for the seller as well. Do anyone really think Dell or Bic pen or Timex or Tampax does QC out of the goodness of their heart? They do it because they make more money when they do it than when they don't do it.

Fully agree, we just have to convince them.

It just depend of the place they have in this huge market. Do not forget we ( members of rep's forums) are only a small part of the game.

Xel

Edited May 7, 2008 by xelorrolex

[By-Tor]

You forget one thing: It's possible that the watch gets damaged during the shipment too. That has happened to me as well.

I once sent a watch to US, which was in perfect condition. I put a lot of bubble wrap around it, and even sent it in a padded envelope on top of that. But when the watch arrived at the destination the plastic crystal was cracked. Thankfully my friend Ubiquitous had a spare one that he shipped to the guy.

Hands or lume markers can get loose during the shipment as well. Stuff like this happens and there's nothing we (or the dealers) can do.

[b16a2]

But in QC'ing the watches that means they have to inspect every single watch. Using dropshipping, it dramatically reduces the amount of time they spend on each watch. If they are selling 100's per week (just a number from the air) I am pretty certain the time/money they save from dropshipping would outwiegh the cost of employing more people to QC the watches prior to sending them out.

QC is not just in the customer's interest - it usually lowers total costs for the seller as well. Do anyone really think Dell or Bic pen or Timex or Tampax does QC out of the goodness of their heart? They do it because they make more money when they do it than when they don't do it.

This i very true, however, it could also be said that the sellers here are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. Therefore if it was truley cheaper to QC than it was to replace a few faulty watches, I'm sure they would.

[AMK000]

BOICOT IS THE ONLY ANSWER

.... the

[JohnG]

But in QC'ing the watches that means they have to inspect every single watch. Using dropshipping, it dramatically reduces the amount of time they spend on each watch. If they are selling 100's per week (just a number from the air) I am pretty certain the time/money they save from dropshipping would outwiegh the cost of employing more people to QC the watches prior to sending them out.

Could be. I have never been clear - do the "cartel" dealers dropship? I have seen some people say this but others say so and so is a great and trusted dealer - but if they were dropping shipping crap they wouldn't have such a good reputation or would they?

This i very true, however, it could also be said that the sellers here are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. Therefore if it was truley cheaper to QC than it was to replace a few faulty watches, I'm sure they would.

I have a different theory - ignorance. For example, the idea of statistical quality control was invented by Americans but was implemented by Japanese manufacturers long before the practice became routine in the U.S. American industry had to get an ass-kicking from the Japanese before they began to really take it seriously. That was ignorance. I think China, as an industrial and capitalist entity, is still in its adolescence and this is even more true when talking about grey or black market products. They may just not know - because in many ways the idea that spending more money will ultimately save you money is counter-intuitive to many people.

[JohnG]

FYI for those who don't know him:

William Edwards Deming American statistician, educator, and consultant whose advocacy of quality-control methods in industrial production aided Japan's economic recovery after World War II and spurred the subsequent global success of many Japanese firms in the late 20th century.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-90298...-Edwards-Deming