A Comparison of 2 16610's

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Last week I purchased a noob-mariner for craps and giggles... It was a good deal, and I didnt have a 16610 rep. I received it and was pleased with the over all quality and the fact that without regulation it was +5seconds per 24hours.

Today I received a "Swiss" 16610 from a member on another site. I happened to be wearing the noob today and quickly put the two side by side. I could not begin to describe the very obvious differences between the two watches. If the Noob is the best out of the box replica, then this "Swiss" watch must have had some serious mods done to it already.

In order to attach the pics in large resolution, I will describe them and number them to compare with the pics.

1. The first pic is a down and dirty side by side. The first thing I noticed is the pearl on the "Swiss" watch. It is as close as I have ever seen to a genuine pearl, and would actually wonder if someone had not swapped in a genuine insert. The noob is our typical insert with pearl

2. Picture two is the noob.

3. Picture three is the "Swiss"

4. Picture 4 shows the tube/crown of the noob.

5. Picture 5 shows the tube/crown of the "Swiss. Neither of the crowns are rally perfect, but a quick swap of a gen and that should be fixed. The tube on the Swiss appears to be an aftermarket replacement, as Ive never seen that tube on an out of the box replica.

6. Picture six is of both crowns/tubes

7. Picture 7 is the back of the two together. Note the difference in color between the two bracelets. The "Swiss" bracelet is much darker than the noob.

8. Picture 8 is the noob bracelet screws

9. Picture 9 is the "swiss" bracelet screws.

10. Picture 10 are the end links of both. Note that the "noob" has the typical gold color to the burned in engraving. The "swiss" is without color as both of my genuine bracelets are.

11. Picture 11 close-up of noob end link (notice also it is all one piece)

12. Picture 12 close-up of the "swiss" the end link is 3 parts.

13. Picture 13 has the "swiss" on top. Notice the different shaped lugs and crown guards... Which is accurate??? I dont have my 16610 here to look, but I think the Swiss is much closer to the lugs on my gen.

14. Picture 14 shows the two movements. Noob with Asian movement on left. Swiss with modified/decorate 2836-2 on the right. Notice also the inside of the case backs... The engraving on the Swiss is incredible and has the correct ref. number.

The rest of the pics are closeups of the movements...

Enjoy and let me know what you think. I am fairly confident that some aspects of the "Swiss" watch have been modified. I think a gen tube and crown and shaved CG's will make a pretty nice watch!

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Two additional photos.

1. The spring bars in the "Swiss" appear to be genuine also. The have the thick end pieces and the ridges in the center bar as all of my gens do.

2. Unfortunately as great as the "Swiss" pearl looks, it has NO LUME at all...

[alligoat]

Picture 13 is interesting. It looks like the noob has the best shape to the lugs when I compare it to my gen 16800, which I happen to be wearing today. But the 16800 and 16610 cases are not the same- of course the rehaut on the 16610 is greater than the 16800. And I don't have a gen 16610 to compare with.

Is your Swiss watch a TW Best/MBW? That would be my guess given the rehaut.

If you have a gen 16610, a few shots would be good for comparison. I'm finding that size on the gens is just slightly different from the reps- my 16800 which I just got yesterday, just 'looks' bigger than my reps.

Nice comparison. One things for certain, both watches could use a gen crown!

[bruce79]

@ alligoat

Can you show some pics of your 16800. I've got a 16800 franken that I've been forever adding to and I'd like to compare it to yours. Indeed I think the gen subs are slightly bigger than the 16610s mostly in the bezel.

Sorry to threadjack!

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

The person I bought it from stated after the sale that he thought that it could have been a TW Best... But he had also bought is pre-owned, so there is no real telling where it came from.

I have ordered a new tube/crown and installed a different pearl last night. I just couldnt get over the missing lume.

[By-Tor]

Looks like TW Best to me. You could compare your watch to this and tell if it's anything alike.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

By_Tor, I think you are correct... The rehaut, and the lug shape appear the same. The dial is quite different.

My case does not have the lugs drilled...

I will not have my 16610 back until next week, am I correct in thinking that the dial on the noob show in the comparisons is a more accurate dial? Should I cannibalize that one for the date wheel overlay and dial?

[By-Tor]

The Noob GMT 16710, 16613 and 16610 dials are perfect. Well as perfect as you can except from a rep.

The TW best dial isn't even close. Look at the "M and m" alignment for example. The print quality is lousy as well.

I think Noob has better front rehaut thickness than both MBW and TW models. They aren't bad but not as good as the Noob. For me the shorter rehaut depth is much smaller flaw than the lack of "front ring". Well it IS present on the TW model but it doesn't look quite right.

WM9 is the best in this regard. It has better depth and excellent thickness.

The way I see the TW model: Excellent overall feel. Everything is pretty close, but nothing is really spectacular (accuracy wise). It's simply not possible to build a superb 16610 right now, unless you use the WM9 as a base and change almost everything. Members have built excellent frankens around the TW though... it's a good base if the rehaut depth is more important to you, than the "ring thickness". But again you have to change almost everything.

Noob is the best compromise, imho. Change the oversized crown and pearl, polish and oil the bracelet (and possibly realign the crystal/cyclops) and it's very reasonable rep (imho).

PS: I'm quite surprised we haven't seen any new 16610 models from our dealers. When did the Noobmariner surface? 2 years ago?

[alligoat]

am I correct in thinking that the dial on the noob show in the comparisons is a more accurate dial? Should I cannibalize that one for the date wheel overlay and dial?

Certainly Carl, putting a noob dial and datewheel in a TW Best case is an excellent way to go- makes for an excellent rep but the movements are different so it makes for a lot of work. It's fairly painless if you have an ETA noob- just swap it over.

Bruce79, you've been my inspiration for the 16800! But I had so much trouble getting a TW Best case, the rep project is on hold. I finally bought this matte dial transitional 16800, one, as an investment, and two, cause the rep project was stalled.

I'll try to post some pics in the next day or two. I did by the way receive a $99 sub from Paul today- case #D320840- I'm hoping it's a TW Best, even though I'll have to drill the lugholes. Will measure tonite.

[bruce79]

Certainly Carl, putting a noob dial and datewheel in a TW Best case is an excellent way to go- makes for an excellent rep but the movements are different so it makes for a lot of work. It's fairly painless if you have an ETA noob- just swap it over.

Bruce79, you've been my inspiration for the 16800! But I had so much trouble getting a TW Best case, the rep project is on hold. I finally bought this matte dial transitional 16800, one, as an investment, and two, cause the rep project was stalled.

I'll try to post some pics in the next day or two. I did by the way receive a $99 sub from Paul today- case #D320840- I'm hoping it's a TW Best, even though I'll have to drill the lugholes. Will measure tonite.

Well, if you were able to get a matte dial 16800, hold onto that baby, they are getting rarer by the minute. As I'm sure you know, my 16800 has the gen transitional dial with the white gold surroundings. The indices have developed a nice patina though.

[Dizzy]

PS: I'm quite surprised we haven't seen any new 16610 models from our dealers. When did the Noobmariner surface? 2 years ago?

I guess the only upgraded one if the MBW 166610 with the engraved rehaut ROLEXROLEXROLEX

But are there any changes from the previous MBW16610? I doubt it.

dizz

[alligoat]

Here's the gen 16800 next to my noob. Colors aren't great, I'm still struggling thru Photography 101. The noob has a gen crown and aftermarket tube, and a better pearl (insert has been boogered up- it is my 'beater'). Crown guards were slightly over straightened.

The big difference with the gen, and the same should hold for the 16610 gen is that it has a 'bigger' feel than the rep. I've measured this stuff with calipers and the dimensions are pretty close, but the bezel on the 16800 does overhang the case more than the noob bezel. Ironically, the dial on the 16800 measures 27.3mm and the noob dial measures 28.4mm give or take. How does Rolex do it? Smaller dial and bigger feel. Rehaut on the 16800 is less than the noob by a little bit, but the crown does sit higher on the side of the case.

[By-Tor]

Thanks for the photos, good job. I've always been a fan of the Noob, because from the front view it looks superb. It's interesting that the rehaut on the Noob is deeper that 16800. I never thought the lower rehaut on the Noob was such a big deal anyway.

Reps have individual differences. As you can see from my photo the Asian version I owned had deeper and nicer rehaut than the ETA. It's probably just random though, and it had nothing to do with the movement.

It's amazing how much the new crown improves the appearance on your Noob.

The original rep crown ruins the watch completely. That's a great upgrade!

[alligoat]

Certainly the crown and tube upgrade, the better pearl and trimming the cg's make the noob a very nice rep IMO. This is pretty much what BK does on his BK Mariner. Oh, I dropped the watch one day in a parking lot after a round of golf. The bezel insert popped off, so I went home and filed the back of the insert down and reglued it in place- gives it that slight inset look that BK gets on his watches. I had a watchmaterial pearl at one time but busted it out on a deer hunting trip- knocked the watch against something. The new pearl was one I popped out of a cheap 5513 insert- a 5513 insert with the wrong pearl!

BT, I now know what you mean when you say there is no really really good Sub rep. As much as I like the noob, when you look at it in person next to a gen sub, you can see the difference- it just has a slightly smaller look.

Ironically, I needed an extra link for the 16800, so I took an extra one from one of my noobs- it worked out just fine!

[ThinkBachs]

Doing a search on Google images and this thread popped up. I don't know what happened but I think it's a shame carlsbadrolex is no longer around. He was always helpful and decent with me.