Collectors/Dealers QC Problems

[marrickvilleboy]

We make up less than 10% of the replica watch sells. How do you expect a minority group to have any impact? don't like it? blame democracy! haha.

Simply put, you know what you were in for when you got hooked on this hobby. Getting faulty illegal goods doesn't technically give you much right to call foul - as in you won't be able to hand in that receipt for exchange - this aint walmart. Plus the board cannot possibly police thoroughly the dealers who we can only assume are doing their best to make these items possible for us.

Lastly, our standards have increase exponentially. There are people asking for refunds for a scratch on the bracelet or no AR on the crystal when it was advertised as having. We all need to learn to compromise - and put in perspective what is actually important in our lives - WTF is watches on a large scale? jesus...

[scoobs1971]

Don't want to sound too cynical - in the real world I'm a very optimistic guy - but a special forum will only show what we already know: all collectors have issues somewhere in time. At one time it's collector A, the other time it's collector B. So banning collectors based on their poor QC will only result in a forum without collectors at all. No matter how good the intentions of the collector, he always have to work with what the factory delivers and they seem to have all the power....

So in the end it's the after sales what makes the difference.

[Dizzy]

We make up less than 10% of the replica watch sells....

We make up 10%??? of replica watch sales?

maybe .010%

Or do you mean 10% from one of the Collectors here on the board?

The replica industry in China is freekin HUGE! Even if all the rep forums and all of us on them stopped buying replica watches right now, the big distributors in China wouldnt even notice a difference in sales. What we think means nothing to them. They make millions of reps a year for a couple at a cost of a couple bucks each... do you think they care about QC? Phoband said it right.

[UncleJay]

Very good explanation... Like i always say.. Choose you dealer, then choose your watch.

Word to the wise, great point. But I thought I had done just that when I picked DSN. Then again, he's the ONLY one with Pre-V watches so I didn't have much of a choice. I think that dealers will get a little "comfortable" when dealing with a customer for a while. Just my 2 cents.

[Dizzy]

Word to the wise, great point. But I thought I had done just that when I picked DSN. Then again, he's the ONLY one with Pre-V watches so I didn't have much of a choice. I think that dealers will get a little "comfortable" when dealing with a customer for a while. Just my 2 cents.

This could be true.. Im gunna stick with Angus for a bit. I had a problem with my Fiddy a few weeks after i bought it and he took care of it and even did an upgrade. I was impressed with his customer service and thats important to me.

[TeeJay]

Don't want to sound too cynical - in the real world I'm a very optimistic guy - but a special forum will only show what we already know: all collectors have issues somewhere in time. At one time it's collector A, the other time it's collector B. So banning collectors based on their poor QC will only result in a forum without collectors at all. No matter how good the intentions of the collector, he always have to work with what the factory delivers and they seem to have all the power....

So in the end it's the after sales what makes the difference.

I agree, that all dealers will eventually have a deal go south for no real fault of theirs, and in such circumstances, yes, after sales is what makes the difference. But. The thing which I believe UJ is talking about, and as myself and others commented on in a thread about Joshua's handling of a situation (which sounded top notch on his part), buyers shouldn't have to build relationships with a dealer just so they don't get garbage, they should get reasonable (for the hobby) quality from the outset. By all means, give special treatment or favors to people who have proven themselves good clients, but in the main, even a new buyer deserves a basic level of respect. Sure, some dealers drop-ship and some don't. Personally, I don't care if a dealer drop-ships or not, providing they drop-ship what is ordered, and are prepared to make exchanges should there be an issue. What I don't like, is dealers who use QC as an excuse for sitting on orders, but never actually QC the goods as they are drop-shipping... Indeed, lynching someone over a single transaction is unreasonable, but, when such things start to form a pattern (and to be honest, with several 'recommended collectors' they have ) that's when the forum admins should step in and say "We run these forums to protect buyers, not to protect you as sellers, the community of these forums is not for you to poach on, but to offer reasonable services." and make them pull their ideas up, where sadly, at the moment, very little is done beyond pulling individual sales, not totally revoking dealer privelages. As before, someone shouldn't get barred the instant someone says "My Best Swiss Bolex leaks like a seive!!1", but, if enough people with similar issues are making reports, that's when the admins ought to step up to the mandate which these forums operate under: To inform and protect buyers from scammers and rip-off merchants.

[UncleJay]

Im gunna stick with Angus for a bit. I had a problem with my Fiddy a few weeks after i bought it and he took care of it and even did an upgrade. I was impressed with his customer service and thats important to me.

Now that's great CS, and I'm now inclined to buy from Angus. That's info, and that helps the community. BTW, Angus get's very good reviews as far as I see. But even he can have a problem. Most dropship and aren't even aware of any problems with a specific model, a forum would do just that...inform the community and those dealers who DO care what we think.

I don't put the complete blame on the dealers, it's the shops they buy from. Hell, most dealers don't ever see the watch they sell you.

[scoobs1971]

..........BTW, Angus get's very good reviews as far as I see. But even he can have a problem.......

To be honest Angus is not the greatest in QC. But he's by far one of the best in after sales.

My best QC'ed watches came from Precious Time (PT). The only reason I also buy from Angus is that PT offers a smaller range of products and is more expensive.

Another thing: I also believe that when a new rep model is released, the factories produce only a couple of quality batches. As soon as the model is mainstream they start maximizing profit by cutting corners and compromising quality.

So the first buyers (mostly the ones who post how fantastic the new model is) get the best products. The later buyers get their watch from bad quality and returned items stock............

[Dizzy]

Another thing: I also believe that when a new rep model is released, the factories produce only a couple of quality batches. As soon as the model is mainstream they start maximizing profit by cutting corners and compromising quality.

Ive never heard this theory before... but its entirely possible.

[scoobs1971]

Ive never heard this theory before... but its entirely possible.

Look at what happened with the SMP. The first batch even had the correct HE-valve and really raised wave patterns. The later batches have flat waves, wrong HE-valve and even lost the 3 hour marker....

The TAG Link chrono these days gets delivered with low beat 7750. I happen to know this because I'm desperately looking for hands that fit the highbeat and I can only get hands for low beat....

Last week I received a new dial for the 3717. Not only the markers were crooked or fallen off, the white text IWC Schaffhausen was changed into grey.

[luisik]

Would be interesting to know what are our wise moderators opinions.

[Dizzy]

Look at what happened with the SMP. The first batch even had the correct HE-valve and really raised wave patterns. The later batches have flat waves, wrong HE-valve and even lost the 3 hour marker....

The TAG Link chrono these days gets delivered with low beat 7750. I happen to know this because I'm desperately looking for hands that fit the highbeat and I can only get hands for low beat....

Last week I received a new dial for the 3717. Not only the markers were crooked or fallen off, the white text IWC Schaffhausen was changed into grey.

I can see them switching to the older and prob cheaper lowbeat 7750 for whatever reason (older and lower quality 7750) but WHY would they re-tool to change the helium valve and dial? Maybe the factory got a better deal on some different dials and helium valves and went in that direction. Either way, you are correct, its horrible.

[narikaa]

Another thing: I also believe that when a new rep model is released, the factories produce only a couple of quality batches. As soon as the model is mainstream they start maximizing profit by cutting corners and compromising quality.

So the first buyers (mostly the ones who post how fantastic the new model is) get the best products. The later buyers get their watch from bad quality and returned items stock............

Not quite

Often the initial run is of high quality...if it gets a poor feedback, its dead in the water. If its a 'hot cakes' item then every other GZ operation wants in on it - they then copy the copy and of course cut corners so they can come in under the original producers price.

Sometimes the 'I'm waiting for the XYZ flaws to be fixed before I buy' has the opposite effect.

.

[Dizzy]

So we're getting a replica of a replica?

lol

awesome

[narikaa]

So some actually think all GZ producers hotfoot over to HK to buy gens to copy?

lol

awesome

[Dizzy]

I was just kidding around

I know what you ment

[scoobs1971]

So we're getting a replica of a replica?

lol

awesome

Finally we

[scoobs1971]

....... they then copy the copy and of course cut corners so they can come in under the original producers price.

That would explain a lot....

[JohnG]

The first dealer who comes along and offers a large inventory, in stock items shipped within 24 hours, a decent warranty (some do already), quick response to emails, and good QC ALL UNDER ONE ROOF is going to kick the [censored] out of the other dealers.

Then we will see how long it takes them to shape up.

[Tekidonc]

By the way does anyone know if this $44 Breitling Heritage is the same as the $130 model that Silix has ?

Seems to be a different model. Look at the crown. And I would doubt about AR coating...

[Noel Fleischer]

I've recently had trouble with one of the new dealers who swears up and down the watches go through multiple rounds of QC. He supposedly sends 1 watch, via some cheap shipping method, and it never arrives. After 15-20 days I'm told if I want him to send a replacement I have to pay $25 more for EMS shipping. I do this. So now I've paid for shipping twice and for the watch once. The 2nd watch arrives, it's the worst watch I've ever seen, with multiple different QC issues noticeable within 5 seconds (slanted text, all the hour markers are misaligned, cyclops crooked, etc). So then I'm expected to send this watch back to China, at my cost (so this will be my third shipping I paid for), and then wait for another watch?? It's been almost two months now, no watch. lol.

I check the for-sale threads daily because I really only feel safe buying from members now.

which dealer did you get it from?

[JohnG]

I have said before that I am watching EuroTimez and I am sure that at some point I am going to order a watch from him. This thread spurred me to look at his subforum again. I had said some time ago that a smart dealer would be taking advantage of this forum to get suggestions from his clients - what better way to improve your customer satisfaction and repeat business and thus your own profits? Dealers who listen to members here have EVERYTHING to gain.

So I found a new "Suggestion Box" (linked below) in his forum and I not only feel that the dealer we have been waiting for may be on our doorstep, but also that anyone here who really wants to have superior service (even those who hold tight to the belief that it will never happen) should take advantage and make any useful suggestions they can think of to EuroTimez here. We have nothing whatsoever to lose:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=72451

I predict that little by little this guy is going to begin to erode the sales of many of the "trusted" dealers commonly used by members of these forums. When that happens they will either accept the loss of sales or they will copy EuroTimez in order to remain competitive (at least among the members of the various forums). But they will not succeed in maintaining the same level of sales without changing their behaviour. The biggest advantage of free markets is their Darwinian nature.

The fact that EuroTimez QC's and now offers a suggestion box is proof that our voices count. If we lie down and take the poor service and poor QC and say, "well it's China, it's illegal, they're fakes, you're a noob and just need to accept that there's nuthin we can do about it", well, THAT attitude is the one that will GUARANTEE that nothing ever changes.

No revolution was ever waged in silence.

[JohnG]

I've recently had trouble with one of the new dealers who swears up and down the watches go through multiple rounds of QC. He supposedly sends 1 watch, via some cheap shipping method, and it never arrives. After 15-20 days I'm told if I want him to send a replacement I have to pay $25 more for EMS shipping. I do this. So now I've paid for shipping twice and for the watch once. The 2nd watch arrives, it's the worst watch I've ever seen, with multiple different QC issues noticeable within 5 seconds (slanted text, all the hour markers are misaligned, cyclops crooked, etc). So then I'm expected to send this watch back to China, at my cost (so this will be my third shipping I paid for), and then wait for another watch?? It's been almost two months now, no watch. lol.

I check the for-sale threads daily because I really only feel safe buying from members now.

Name the dealer for goodness sake. How are we supposed to avoid the same pitfalls if you don't name and shame?

[TeeJay]

I have said before that I am watching EuroTimez and I am sure that at some point I am going to order a watch from him. This thread spurred me to look at his subforum again. I had said some time ago that a smart dealer would be taking advantage of this forum to get suggestions from his clients - what better way to improve your customer satisfaction and repeat business and thus your own profits? Dealers who listen to members here have EVERYTHING to gain.

So I found a new "Suggestion Box" (linked below) in his forum and I not only feel that the dealer we have been waiting for may be on our doorstep, but also that anyone here who really wants to have superior service (even those who hold tight to the belief that it will never happen) should take advantage and make any useful suggestions they can think of to EuroTimez here. We have nothing whatsoever to lose:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=72451

I predict that little by little this guy is going to begin to erode the sales of many of the "trusted" dealers commonly used by members of these forums. When that happens they will either accept the loss of sales or they will copy EuroTimez in order to remain competitive (at least among the members of the various forums). But they will not succeed in maintaining the same level of sales without changing their behaviour. The biggest advantage of free markets is their Darwinian nature.

The fact that EuroTimez QC's and now offers a suggestion box is proof that our voices count. If we lie down and take the poor service and poor QC and say, "well it's China, it's illegal, they're fakes, you're a noob and just need to accept that there's nuthin we can do about it", well, THAT attitude is the one that will GUARANTEE that nothing ever changes.

No revolution was ever waged in silence.

Couldn't've said it better myself. I also predict great things for EuroTimez

[scoobs1971]

Couldn't've said it better myself. I also predict great things for EuroTimez

I really hope so. For the moment I will give him the benefit of the doubt, but let