Look what I found.....in my UPO

[magagne]

@Jeroen,

We have discussed this in depth.. I have also offered to replace your watch .. You decide to keep it.. I am not forcing anything down on you..

I also send you not 1... but 2 replacements as the earlier 2 are taken by your country customs....

Thanks

Joshua

Well well well..that's interesting!!!

[doc savage]

It doesn't change the fact that they are passing Chinese off as Swiss and charging Swiss prices. How exactly did the markings get machined off by decorations if there are no decorations on that part of the movement?

Actually, there is NO decoration or machining on the movement below the balance where you should see the movement number and ETA hallmark... and even if there were, the damascening takes off nearly 0 material... more like burnishing the surface with a fiberglass pen... ain't even gonna hide scratches... the Geneva stripes take off marginally more, but not enough to obliterate any stamping on the rotor... you can check out Ofrei's watch kit for what a 2824-2 in this level of finish and presumed adjustment... ("Elabor

[jeroen1985]

Hi Josh,

I really appreciated that you sent me those replacements, your service is great! But I wanted to know for which movement I paid for!!! That's why I openend this topic. I want to keep the watch because I'm to afraid, when I send the watchback to you, that it will be confiscated.

@Jeroen,

We have discussed this in depth.. I have also offered to replace your watch .. You decide to keep it.. I am not forcing anything down on you..

I also send you not 1... but 2 replacements as the earlier 2 are taken by your country customs....

Thanks

Joshua

[EuroTimez]

There have been quite alot on this topic, I would respond earlier if I hadn't caught a flu and been in bed... but I'm BACK!

There are 3 so called ETA movements available in most reps.

1. Copy ETA (cheapest)

2. Second grade ETA (somestimes, old rusted, recycled, mixed with ETA and COPY ETA, old stock ETA)

3. New ETA ---massively expensive sometimes they buy in rate is 70-100 more usd then price of the COPY ETA movement.

So fig out what you're getting! Most dealer didn't care to tell you all sorts of "white" lies (and are still continueing) like ETA 2813 --- which has nothing to do with ETA but is just DG 2813 movement, superlume -- eh superb lume, ETA 2892 ---which turned out to be a SEAGULL, they didn't hassitate do to that so what makes you think you be getting what you paid for NOW?!

Jeroen's case is just a tip of a hidden Ice-berg, many if not most don't even know how to differentiate between ETA / COPY ETA even if they open their caseback which most clients won't do. And then if if you discover that it is a COPY movement then how many % will complain openly...

The NEW ETA is around it is just not what your getting, because most dealers simply don't care what they give you.... And ppl who do care like PT can only confirm the movement when it is too late... as it already in EU... You should always check by the source...

AND ....OH YES..... THEY (the dealers)know what their selling you..... As they have contacts with the factory, and they have to pay bills too.. So if they order a UPO with real ETA from the factory they pay a different rate then when they order a UPO with Copy ETA movement.... Besides that they're close to the factory they should know... Coz even I know this and I'm just a small dealer in comparison.

but like I said b4 it is easier to look the other way and play innocent. The dealers most if not all will sell you nr 1 and nr 2, and when ppl like JEROEN discover that it is a COPY (copy ETA comes also with ETA markerings mind you, 99% looks like ETA movement I've seen so many of them)... then it's easy to say "oh it's the factory" "oh this and that".... But I believe that they know as the prices that their selling the So-called ETA 2836-2 or other ETA movements are too low....believe it or not...

Problem is two-fold...

1 they (dealers) don't care what you get (outside or inside)... and go for the quick cash...

2. (customer) you want to pay as little as possible and expect to get all the BLING (like TTK once said).... and whats it fast etc etc

I sell the UPO with real ETA for 330 usd and I really make minimal profit just for your information... It is 100% guaranteed to be NEW swiss ETA as every single caseback has been opened (AND MARKED by my watchmaker).

[Dizzy]

PS: I will pick this movement over rusty/old real ETA movement but hey that's just me.

HAHA dont laugh Tak.. that happened to me.. nice new rolex daydate with a rusted out old ETA inside it.. Thanks!! Wow it doesnt even work? even better! LOL

I wanna see his response.. but maybe it was a dropshipping mistake. I pretty much assume everything now is a chinese copy unless PROVEN otherwise LOL

dizz

[JuiceMaker]

@EuroTimez...

I'm really liking your way of doing business...

you "tell it like it is" & no hiding behind the bushes...

I believe many of the members on this forum, including me, really appreciate your "insider" information & the fact that you're willing to come out "clear & clean" & that's really praise worthy, in my honest opinion...

there's nothing more honourable than a business man being honest & transparent about his/her business practices...

I for one, am really eager to buying reps from you...

I really hope that you can quickly "expand" your rep collections to accommodate the vast choices that many of us members on this forum desire...

having said that, I'm all for "QUALITY" super-reps...

you have up-lifted the standards of this forum, good on you!!!

[archibald]

Guys, sadly this is something that all of us are going to have to deal with forever--that is those of us who continue to buy from dealers.

The dealers have done their forum related jobs too well, w/ complete mastery of group psychology.

It seems that after a new member's first purchase, they're so delighted and relieved they didn't get their money and identity stolen by some guy 1/2 way around the world that they immediately post a "(your dealer name here) is da man" post.. I know I did...and it becomes a convention. The dealers play on this constant flow of positive reviews like any smart PR operatives would: they make friends w/ repeat buyers, feeding them little tidbits of info (much of which out to be complete BS), they may or may not flat out pay off other members, and, in my personal opinion, have an entire forum that functions largely to further their business interests, eliminate competition, and intimidate anyone who dares to waver from the straight and narrow.

The result: For every guy like the OP who finds them out, let alone publicly calls them on their shennanigans, there are 100 who don't. Many of the scammed don't bother to post out of laziness, but even more don't past because they are afraid of getting black balled or have 10 Powermaxers post "Dealer X will make it right!! Why didn't you do this privately before naming the dealer?!?"

My personal solution is easy: although I spend an embarrasing amount of money on reps, I haven't bought from a dealer in over a year and 1/2. Sure, I pay a little more for reps since many have been modded, and a very small number have been at inflated prices the few times sellers have insisted on selling used watches at a profit But guess what? My collection has gotten better than if I had bought only from dealers, I've never recieved anything not as advertised, and even better, I've made a lot of real friends with whom I exchange real and valuable info about reps, with whom I've bought and sold unbelievably amazing reps w/o anyone else ever having the opportunity to even see. IMO, aside from new models there are plenty of watches available on the secondary market to keep any collector broke for the foreseeable future.

Sorry if this poist pi$$es anyone off, but since I've got no dog in the dealers/forums hunt, I feel like I can just tell the truth as I see it.

[DemonSlayer]

Chris thanks for revealing to us how it is. I know there may be some members here who will STILL defend the 'recommended' dealers despite their blatant lying and scamming. I personally believe that these dealers should be made to state that the movements are copy ETA's if they wish to continue advertizing here. Even if they don't reduce their prices, at least with the 'ETA' removed from the movement description, us buyers would have a better idea what type of watch we are purchasing.

It didn't really suprise me that Chris said the dealers know EXACTLY what movement is inside their watches. They could easily be able to tell from their buy-in prices, even more so because they have close contact with the factory. As Chris pointed out even he knows exactly what movements are inside his watches and he's a much smaller dealer than Josh or Andrew.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but if a dealer INTENTIONALLY misrepresents his product by stating it has an ETA movement, when infact it does not, that is a scam in my books...

[techd]

BTW the clone movements shown appear to be the new Seagull ETA clone movements.

They're actually pretty good movements, but very unlikely that the dealers wouldn't know that they're not ETA since they're not at all marked as ETA or anything since they're legitimate movements that aren't trying to pretend to be ETA made.

I'm just waiting until I can get a cheap 2824 clone to scavenge a couple parts from, lol.

[magagne]

A Clone 2824 come oiled or not?

[f5mando]

Looking back over the years,,,the majority of reps I've had from the various dealers here were totally unacceptable for the money I spent. The money I spent on reps was by far the biggest personal waste of money ever. And I NEVER seem to learn,,,,after all of this I just spent around 400 on another rep! only to have the bracelet break within an hour of it on the wrist. It literally went flying across the table at lunch.

I guess I just like this forum, the people here are very interesting and it's a very good forum even if reps are IMO,,,,a big waste of money (sorry).

Same here, Chris! How/why do we keep getting sucked back in? I thought I was done (bar the board cruising and posting) until this morning.. when I saw a beautiful super-rep Speedy 'panda' review on this very board..Dammit - my gen SMP is still the [censored], though!