Why are you collecting reps and not gens?

[Manitou]

Greetings and salutations dear forum members,

I read through various old and new threads this morning, and my mind started drifting off on the topic of why I started collecting reps, and I concluded that all you various members must have many differing and interesting stories and reasons for having chosen to burn so intensely and passionately for something which is ultimately fake in terms of brand identity and production value (albeit not in design and to a certain extent signal value)?

>>>>

Well to start off I'd like to give my own background and reasoning for collecting reps.

Ever since being a smallfry, I have been fascinated by timepieces and timekeeping. As a kid I had all kinds of casio monsters, calculator watches and whatchamacallit.

When I got into my early teens, I started appreciating "real" watches -- Omega, Rolex, PP and Tag suddenly started taking up a lot of my mindspace, and I dreamt about the glorious day when I'd be able to afford one of these exclusive time pieces.

Before it got to the point where I could afford one though, I took the random intercontinental Asia trips where I ransacked various, conspicuous markets for low-end replicas, in the vague and somewhat naive hope that some of these would satisfy my inner reasoning but hopelessly lack of actual ability of getting a gen. Unfortunately these "timepieces" had an annoying tendency to explode, implode, crack, squeak or hick-up when you least needed it (during carnal acts with hot dates and other embarrassing situations). So I quickly gave up on the replicas (not knowing better ones existed -- if they even did at that time?).

Time passed and I started making money that made it possible for me to start investigating the real deal. I was in my mid 20s and I was lucky enough to have a very understanding wife whom I somehow managed to convince of the glorious advantage of placing our hard-earned savings in little metal dingobots that could do nothing but look good and tell time.

So I bought several watches over the next few years. PAM 127, PAM 210, PAM 005A and B, 60s Sub, 70s IWC Aquatimer, Bvlgari Diagano Professional 2K, Super Avenger etc. etc. Watches tended to get more and more expensive, starting with a couple of 1000 dollars, soon being more like 7-8.000 dollars.

Then came the day where I was offered an extremely rare and perfect Urban J

Edited June 29, 2008 by Manitou

[Chronus]

I'm just poor with an addiction to buying things until I'm destitute and living on the streets

[Manitou]

I'm just poor with an addiction to buying things until I'm destitute and living on the streets

Aren't we all ;-)?

[slay]

i love watches and i do not see the justification for spending 20k on a watch. i would maybe spend that kind of money one ONE watch that i would pass on to my future generations, but not every watch will be in my collection for all my life!

i'd rather get a nice Audi S5 instead of 2 or 3 watches!

[Manitou]

i love watches and i do not see the justification for spending 20k on a watch. i would maybe spend that kind of money one ONE watch that i would pass on to my future generations, but not every watch will be in my collection for all my life!

i'd rather get a nice Audi S5 instead of 2 or 3 watches!

Yeah that's how I'm thinking now also. But my reasons at that time (before getting scammed), was that these things would keep or increase in value, which a car won't (unless we are talking Enzo catagory cars). So seen from that perspective, watches are a better investment.

Anyways, I agree with you now.

[Manitou]

i love watches and i do not see the justification for spending 20k on a watch. i would maybe spend that kind of money one ONE watch that i would pass on to my future generations, but not every watch will be in my collection for all my life!

i'd rather get a nice Audi S5 instead of 2 or 3 watches!

Oh btw - in Denmark 2-3 watches don't really cover an S5 ;-). You'll have to slap down almost 200K euros for that....DAMN THEM AND THEIR TAXES!!

[Chronus]

Oh btw - in Denmark 2-3 watches don't really cover an S5 ;-). You'll have to slap down almost 200K euros for that....DAMN THEM AND THEIR TAXES!!

Damn! And I love Denmark too !

Well the women

I loved Copenhagen a couple years ago.

[Manitou]

Damn! And I love Denmark too !

Well the women

I loved Copenhagen a couple years ago.

There're lots of good things to say about Denmark and Copenhagen. Buying cars is not one of them....

[Watchmeister]

I came from a similar background of gen buying - but not for investment. I liked wearing them. I then went through a series of disheartening adventures with a number of the higher end brands - Pateks that didn't keep proper time no matter how many times I shipped them back to Switzerland, an AP where water ruined the watch and AP refused to honor the warranty, etc. I became completely fed up with watches, sold most of what I had and simply kept one nice watch and a cheap sport watch or two for daily wear. I then stumbled on to the original RWG 1. It was my first interactive internet forum and I loved it. I think it was more about the camraderie than the watches. I did buy a couple of watches from the old school guys. At that time Eddie and River were the high end guys. Neil, Josh and Andrew were largely selling $100 knock-offs and Paul was having "crazy sales". And ultimately it reinvigorated my interest in gens as well.

Today I play in it all. My pride and joy are the Frankens and the vintages. It is not about how much money you spent or how much you saved. It is about always trying to improve your watches and most importantly it gives you the opportunity to move forth on any number of projects with other obsessed people. Reps and this wonderful forum have enabled me to meet wonderful folks from all over the world - US, Canada, EU, Asia, etc. And it is reps (frankens and vintages too) not gens that have provided this opportunity.

[Manitou]

I came from a similar background of gen buying - but not for investment. I liked wearing them. I then went through a series of disheartening adventures with a number of the higher end brands - Pateks that didn't keep proper time no matter how many times I shipped them back to Switzerland, an AP where water ruined the watch and AP refused to honor the warranty, etc. I became completely fed up with watches, sold most of what I had and simply kept one nice watch and a cheap sport watch or two for daily wear. I then stumbled on to the original RWG 1. It was my first interactive internet forum and I loved it. I think it was more about the camraderie than the watches. I did buy a couple of watches from the old school guys. At that time Eddie and River were the high end guys. Neil, Josh and Andrew were largely selling $100 knock-offs and Paul was having "crazy sales". And ultimately it reinvigorated my interest in gens as well.

Today I play in it all. My pride and joy are the Frankens and the vintages. It is not about how much money you spent or how much you saved. It is about always trying to improve your watches and most importantly it gives you the opportunity to move forth on any number of projects with other obsessed people. Reps and this wonderful forum have enabled me to meet wonderful folks from all over the world - US, Canada, EU, Asia, etc. And it is reps (frankens and vintages too) not gens that have provided this opportunity.

Yeah the whole mod scene is a thing I have yet to properly discover.

I feel like the passion here is more honest and intense than what I've been used to on for example Time Zone. This partly due to the fact that collecting reps in no way can be a "cover" for showing off your wealth and success, which I found to be the case to some extent on TZ and similar fora.

[sssurfer]

My reasons:

1 - Price.

2 - I love playing on modding. Gens are not exactly suited at it.

3 - Quality/price ratio. Better on [some] reps than gens.

4 - Supporting the work of emerging countries.

5 - Price.

[Pugwash]

Why buy reps? Price.

No other reason.

I've said it before, but if I ever win the lottery, I'd never buy another rep.

[abat]

Why buy reps? Price.

No other reason.

I've said it before, but if I ever win the lottery, I'd never buy another rep.

That's it for me too, exactly.

[Manitou]

Why buy reps? Price.

No other reason.

I've said it before, but if I ever win the lottery, I'd never buy another rep.

If funding was no issue at all (read: Infinite funds) I'd of course go back to gens again. Right now I just don't think that you get your money's worth in 9 out of 10 cases plus there're many issues with gens that are similar to the quality issues apparent with reps. So even if I could it would for me take more than just reasonable ability to make the transformation back to gens.

[ravishingrick]

I started collecting reps after a friend offered me a 35 Euro fantasy replica Panerai around January 2005. Before this offer I had no interest what so ever in watches and certainly had never seen or heard of a Panerai in my life before. I purchased my first replica Panerai because it appealed to me in some strange way that I could not quite put my finger on, I was drawn to the brand\watch as metal to a magnet.

Shortly after my first purchase I started lurking the Panerai site and dreaming of purchasing the real deal. At the time I was just finished my education and did not have the financial means to purchase a genuine, so I stared to look for the next best thing. After searching the web for high end replica's I luckily found RWG1. Thats what the time I purchase my first high end replica Pam 118 from Paul.

I have owned about 15 reps in the last 3 years, but currently own only 4 high end highly modded replica's that I love and don't think I shall ever let go. I currently buy 1 or 2 reps a year. The fun thing with reps for me was getting the very good reps, but not yet there to the next level (almost spot on). Hunting for parts and finally modding or getting them modded, tinkering with them, learning about the movements is all part of the fun.

My opinion of replica's and genuine's has changed over time, I used to think it was a waist of money to buy genuine's because the reps come so close optically and in some cases when using the exact same movement as the genuine, mechanically to the genuine.

After working very hard the last few years I am now in the position to buy my first gen in the under the 4K. Contrary to my previous opinions I do not see it as a waist of money to lay down 4K for a genuine Panerai. By getting the real deal I shall be fore filling a dream, getting a peace that shall probably appreciate in value and having a watch that shall later be worthy of passing on to future generations.

Reps to me shall always be second best, no matter how close the come to the gen, If watches are your passion in life why settle for second best. If you select you genuine' s wisely you can certainly break even with them or even earn some money with genuine's, while most reps deprecate in value.

Edited June 29, 2008 by ravishingrick

[anton]

Could any of us seriously say that we have a minimal desire to collect gens and only collect reps? Do we think that the line has blurred drastically between gens and reps that we can readily say that reps present a better "value" to us watch-wearers as a whole?

IMO, though the quality of reps has increased much in the past couple of years, it still pales in comparison to the equivalent gens. If we truly believed in the statement of "not getting money's worth" with the gens, why are a taking these things apart, working on them, and adding gen or equivalent parts that when all is said and done, would reach near the threshold of the gen itself?

Though we speak of the reliability issues of the gens out there and how they dissuade us from buying them, we should certainly be saying the same thing as far as reps are concerned. Exploding crystals, chronograph buttons that fall off, rotor stickers that gum up the movement, and chronograph second hands that jump further when you reset them back to "zero". On top of that, the movement might run five minutes fast per day!

If you ask me, I've rarely run into these issues with gens. Reps, on the other hand, I have run into those issues.

We are a minority when we speak about the advantages of reps to gens because a quite many of us are budding and experienced modders who know the "givens" that come with the reps we buy and try to correct those issues for the long run. But for the average user, they don't know any better. They want to buy the name, but not pay the price.

And the way I see it, you get what you pay for.

And oh yeah, I collect reps. Gens too. One of the reasons is that if something were to happen to my watch, I don't have to hunt around to find a rep-friendly watchsmith. Drop it off at an AD and 2-6 weeks later it is back home.

[Manitou]

Could any of us seriously say that we have a minimal desire to collect gens and only collect reps? Do we think that the line has blurred drastically between gens and reps that we can readily say that reps present a better "value" to us watch-wearers as a whole?

IMO, though the quality of reps has increased much in the past couple of years, it still pales in comparison to the equivalent gens. If we truly believed in the statement of "not getting money's worth" with the gens, why are a taking these things apart, working on them, and adding gen or equivalent parts that when all is said and done, would reach near the threshold of the gen itself?

Though we speak of the reliability issues of the gens out there and how they dissuade us from buying them, we should certainly be saying the same thing as far as reps are concerned. Exploding crystals, chronograph buttons that fall off, rotor stickers that gum up the movement, and chronograph second hands that jump further when you reset them back to "zero". On top of that, the movement might run five minutes fast per day!

If you ask me, I've rarely run into these issues with gens. Reps, on the other hand, I have run into those issues.

We are a minority when we speak about the advantages of reps to gens because a quite many of us are budding and experienced modders who know the "givens" that come with the reps we buy and try to correct those issues for the long run. But for the average user, they don't know any better. They want to buy the name, but not pay the price.

And the way I see it, you get what you pay for.

And oh yeah, I collect reps. Gens too. One of the reasons is that if something were to happen to my watch, I don't have to hunt around to find a rep-friendly watchsmith. Drop it off at an AD and 2-6 weeks later it is back home.

You have a lot of true and fair arguments, but in my experience gens are as far apart by brand as reps can be from gens.

For example I've had numerous problems with my Panerais. Hands coming off, PVD of questionable quality etc.

On the APs I owned (a rubberclad ROO and a T3), the titanium of the T3 was exceptionally scratch prone and the Chrono in the rubberclad got stuck at some point (the start/stop button just "froze stuck"). It took 6 months and 2500 dollars to fix the Chrono because they needed to fit a new Chrono module.

I know of course that this happens (probably even more so) with reps, but the funny thing is that from my 30 reps, all of them run fine and keep pretty good time.

And speaking of time keeping:

My Oris Williams gen gained 12 secs. a day.

My Urban J

[scoobs1971]

I've started buying reps to see what I like and to have some versatility. Unfortunately I don't have the funds to do that with gens, but if I had the money I think I would buy mostly gens. Altough I can't imagine myself spending more than E 10.000,- on a single watch.........

The reps have made me fall in love with the Panerai brand and now I'm saving to buy a gen 111 to sit nicely between the PAM reps

[Samurai]

You never really own a rep. You merely look after it for the next generation. :-)

[Manitou]

You never really own a rep. You merely look after it for the next generation. :-)

OR

"you never really own a rep. You merely look after it until it gets snitched in customs due to repair logistics"

[scoobs1971]

You never really own a rep. You merely look after it for the next generation. :-)

You never really keep a rep. You merely look after it until the next generation has been released

[Manitou]

You never really keep a rep. You merely look after it until the next generation has been released

HAH! That's some funny shaite :-)

[TeeJay]

My reason has already been given by someone else :

i love watches and i do not see the justification for spending 20k on a watch.

At the end of the day, I won't buy anything purely for it's 'brandname', for example, if I can buy a generic version of cola rather than Pepsi, I buy the generic version...

Some might say "Well why not buy a $10 Quartz?!"

For the simple reason that I do not like how the $10 Quartz looks, in terms of aesthetics and styling. The $10 Quartz might have really poor quality lume, or not be water resistant, or not have many strap options... That's why I like Panerai watches. They're large and clear enough for me to read easily in any lighting condition, won't flood if they get wet, and, being automatic or manual, I know that the only reason for it stopping, will be mechanical failure, not just the need for a new battery.

A quick story of the most recent compliment I got on a watch. I was at a christening party and talking to a guy about stuff in general, when he asked the time. I told him, and he was so shocked at the time, I held my wrist up for him to see that that was indeed what the time was. He then said "Wow! That is some watch!" (I was wearing my 104 on its SS bracelet. Yes, I know I still need to take photos and post a review of it... ) As he was clearly interested in it, I took it off so he could view it better, and, when he took it in his hand, he was really surprized and impressed with the weight of it. Now, he obviously wasn't a collector, so the dreaded "Is it real?" question never cropped up, but, it was nice to have a quick chat about something, and have someone genuinely appreciate a watch, which, I suspect, many of the 'purists'* would possibly turn their noses up at Of course, if he had asked if it was real, I would have explained that it was a rep, but, as it was, he just appreciated it 'as a watch', which was nice

* Translation = Overly anal people who obsess over minutia and flaws in replication which many others can overlook or ignore

[b16a2]

The reason I first started out in reps was because I could buy a 95% accurate piece for 10% of the price.

[Manitou]

My reason has already been given by someone else :

At the end of the day, I won't buy anything purely for it's 'brandname', for example, if I can buy a generic version of cola rather than Pepsi, I buy the generic version...

Some might say "Well why not buy a $10 Quartz?!"

For the simple reason that I do not like how the $10 Quartz looks, in terms of aesthetics and styling. The $10 Quartz might have really poor quality lume, or not be water resistant, or not have many strap options... That's why I like Panerai watches. They're large and clear enough for me to read easily in any lighting condition, won't flood if they get wet, and, being automatic or manual, I know that the only reason for it stopping, will be mechanical failure, not just the need for a new battery.

A quick story of the most recent compliment I got on a watch. I was at a christening party and talking to a guy about stuff in general, when he asked the time. I told him, and he was so shocked at the time, I held my wrist up for him to see that that was indeed what the time was. He then said "Wow! That is some watch!" (I was wearing my 104 on its SS bracelet. Yes, I know I still need to take photos and post a review of it... ) As he was clearly interested in it, I took it off so he could view it better, and, when he took it in his hand, he was really surprized and impressed with the weight of it. Now, he obviously wasn't a collector, so the dreaded "Is it real?" question never cropped up, but, it was nice to have a quick chat about something, and have someone genuinely appreciate a watch, which, I suspect, many of the 'purists'* would possibly turn their noses up at Of course, if he had asked if it was real, I would have explained that it was a rep, but, as it was, he just appreciated it 'as a watch', which was nice

* Translation = Overly anal people who obsess over minutia and flaws in replication which many others can overlook or ignore

Interesting reasoning and nice story!

Oh btw - is that 47s head in your signature ?

Edited June 29, 2008 by Manitou