crystalcranium Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'm concerned. I found this site and its' affilliated dealers several months ago after staggering around the replica internet for years spending far too much on crap. Since I've been here, I've spent about a grand on 4 stunning pieces, the Speedmaster Moon Watch with the Venus copy hand wind movement, a Speedmaster Broad Arrow, an ETA powered stainless Submariner, and a new 7750 powered Bentley GT. The quality and craftsmanship in these watches is nothing short of remarkable for the price. The Submariner fooled a Rolex regional sales representative, the Broad Arrow won compliments in a high end jewlrey store, and all run to within 3-5 seconds accurate per day after adjustment. In some recent posts however, respected members here raised the point that some replicas are getting so good that genuine companies, who have always viewed tha replica industry as a flattering annoyance, might begin to get serious about cracking down on counterfeits. Shipping problems, which I believe were linked to choking off the counterfeit trade, have cropped up recently. My question is are we living in the golden age of replicas right now with accuracy to originals at the highest level it's ever been and availability at the easiest level it's ever been, but this ride is due to come to a screeching halt? We've gotten too good and too easy and hard times are on the horizon. This is my concern. In other words, should I buy up every 9 out of 10 rated replica I see now before it's too late!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artoero Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 good point, i think it will be better....wait and see I'm concerned. I found this site and its' affilliated dealers several months ago after staggering around the replica internet for years spending far too much on crap. Since I've been here, I've spent about a grand on 4 stunning pieces, the Speedmaster Moon Watch with the Venus copy hand wind movement, a Speedmaster Broad Arrow, an ETA powered stainless Submariner, and a new 7750 powered Bentley GT. The quality and craftsmanship in these watches is nothing short of remarkable for the price. The Submariner fooled a Rolex regional sales representative, the Broad Arrow won compliments in a high end jewlrey store, and all run to within 3-5 seconds accurate per day after adjustment. In some recent posts however, respected members here raised the point that some replicas are getting so good that genuine companies, who have always viewed tha replica industry as a flattering annoyance, might begin to get serious about cracking down on counterfeits. Shipping problems, which I believe were linked to choking off the counterfeit trade, have cropped up recently. My question is are we living in the golden age of replicas right now with accuracy to originals at the highest level it's ever been and availability at the easiest level it's ever been, but this ride is due to come to a screeching halt? We've gotten too good and too easy and hard times are on the horizon. This is my concern. In other words, should I buy up every 9 out of 10 rated replica I see now before it's too late!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 artoero>> I love your avatar man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 reps are becoming more and more accurate, that is definitely so...if we are living in the golden age of reps? that is sooooo true!...how much will it last? nobody knows...i hope forever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'm buying mine now while they are still available. Usil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 The topic of 'when it's all going to end' seems to come up every 6 months or so... Personally, I think it's a case of the Chinese government taking small action every so often to give the appearance that they are trying to do something to combat the replica industry for the big watch houses and their lawyers to see. After that, it's business as usual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artoero Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Thanks my friend, I think that is how it goes in a relationship artoero>> I love your avatar man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectionist Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) I think you have a very good point ..... many things are in a process of radical change right now but the effects are being hidden and controlled ..... Oil prices at record highs US Debt at record highs Interest Rates on the rise Currency Rates volatile Politcal Instability worldwide etc etc .... In particular the Oil and Debt levels are worrying and will no doubt cause drastic changes in business and indeed the western way of life ..... Anyway, this is my excuse to build up a Rep collection this year !! You mentioned Star Ratings for replicas - do you have a link to this list ? Edited July 7, 2006 by Perfectionist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I think you have a very good point ..... many things are in a process of radical change right now but the effects are being hidden and controlled ..... Oil prices at record highs US Debt at record highs Interest Rates on the rise Currency Rates volatile Politcal Instability worldwide etc etc .... In particular the Oil and Debt levels are worrying and will no doubt cause drastic changes in business and indeed the western way of life ..... Anyway, this is my excuse to build up a Rep collection this year !! You mentioned Star Ratings for replicas - do you have a link to this list ? No list per se, just listening to the experts here. By-Tor has a very good Omega rep review that I used in selecting my Moonwatch and Broad Arrow and there are others. Use the search function and read some threads pertaining to watches you are interested in. My short list of the best I've bought and heard about IWC Titanium GST Chrono IWC FA Jones from TTK...Remarkable rep!!! Breitling Bentley GT Chronos Tag Heuer Link Chrono from TTK....So good it is scaring me into this post! Stainless and 18K solid gold Omega Constellation Omega Aqua Terra with 2892 movement. Small dial issues but that display caseback is oh sooooo nice! Franck Mueller 2892 platnium rotor Casablanca...a 1-1 looking rep and movement MBW Vintage Submariners King's LV Submariner..Best Dial and bezel of any LV replica I've seen including the MBW LVs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 You mentioned Star Ratings for replicas - do you have a link to this list ? There isn't really a list. Still, what reps would you put on a nine-star list? I'll start: IWC GST Chrono. Accurate enough and cool as fsck. MoonWatch. Subdials in wrong place, but amazing nonetheless. There are apparently nine-star Breitlings and the TAG Link is up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 No list per se, ... My short list of the best I've bought and heard about Heh, we were writing at the same time. Funny the first watch on our lists is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 China will have to start cracking down as it starts to become a global economy player. To attract the big names to their shopping malls intellectual property rights will have to be respected. Also the Swiss are well aware of what goes on and it will not be long before ETA stops the sale of movts to the asian markets. Hence the asian copy of the 6497. Some movts ahve already dried up - the 2893 is a good example. I would definitely say that this is the Golden age but who knows how long it will last - another year or two!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Heh, we were writing at the same time. Funny the first watch on our lists is the same. Ahhh yes, great minds thinking alike!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 China will have to start cracking down as it starts to become a global economy player. To attract the big names to their shopping malls intellectual property rights will have to be respected. Also the Swiss are well aware of what goes on and it will not be long before ETA stops the sale of movts to the asian markets. Hence the asian copy of the 6497. Some movts ahve already dried up - the 2893 is a good example. I would definitely say that this is the Golden age but who knows how long it will last - another year or two!! But the Chinese already make ETAs for the Swiss and Chinese companies like Seagull make the equivalent of ETA movements like the 2892. I don't think the Swiss cutting off the supply of Swiss finished/Chinese made ETA movements is going to be the choke hold that cuts us off from our replica sources. I do think international pressure brought to bear from companies and conglomerates with their deep pockets just might, for instance, holding shippers legally responsible for moving counterfeit goods. I think DHL and FEDEX will be buying X-ray machines at an alarming rate and using them if they are getting consistantly prosecuted for trafficing in illegal contraband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Prognostication is an inexact undertaking at best, but I'll share my predictions since you asked. I think the Guangzhou watchworks folks will continue to produce better and better product until the politics are such that China shuts it all down - and when they do, it will shut down because no government that I know of gets things done like the Chinese. To put this in perspective, I think we are in the same situation as we were in a few years ago when we were all having a wonderful time with Napster, WinMX, etc downloading all the music we wanted Peer-to-Peer. One day, we all went to sign on and it was over - the difference is, nobody we liked a lot got shot. That's my only real concern - I can take the replica thing or leave it, but I don't want to see anyone we do business with running afoul of the Chinese justice system (oxymoron). Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Prognostication is an inexact undertaking at best, but I'll share my predictions since you asked. I think the Guangzhou watchworks folks will continue to produce better and better product until the politics are such that China shuts it all down - and when they do, it will shut down because no government that I know of gets things done like the Chinese. To put this in perspective, I think we are in the same situation as we were in a few years ago when we were all having a wonderful time with Napster, WinMX, etc downloading all the music we wanted Peer-to-Peer. One day, we all went to sign on and it was over - the difference is, nobody we liked a lot got shot. That's my only real concern - I can take the replica thing or leave it, but I don't want to see anyone we do business with running afoul of the Chinese justice system (oxymoron). Bill Excellent point. I guess the replica business will migrate to North Korea next. They already have state sponsored counterfeiting of US currency. I guess you voiced my fear. All of this seems too good to be true. I just got a Bentley GT clone in my hands and it blows me away. I have this incredible copy of a $6000 watch that will fool just about everybody who sees it or touches it without opening it. I have a friend who is a Breitling collector and I can't wait to spring it on him and watch him fawn over it. I really feel like I got a $6000 watch for $300. Twenty years ago when I bought my first Rolex copy in Mexico, it was an absolute joke. Today, if I were a Breitling executive, I would see this watch as anything but. It, and others like it, are scary real. My wife is afraid Interpol is going to show up at our door. Just like downloading all of my favorite music for free like I did years ago, I have this feeling of foreboding doom like this can't possibly last. It's just too easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I have this feeling of foreboding doom like this can't possibly last. It's just too easy. Enjoy it while you still can. That's why I am buying as many reps as I can afford and wife can tolerate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Excellent point. I guess the replica business will migrate to North Korea next. They already have state sponsored counterfeiting of US currency. Yeah, customs would never check a package from North Korea. But seriously, it won't get any easier, and most likely a lot tougher, to sneak in reps cross borders. I know some of the members on this board are pretty young and tend to only know the now. 30 years ago MOST non EU/US countries didn't even have IP laws, let alone regularly enforce them, and that 10 years ago we barely had an internet worth talking about. As another member pointed out, until 5 years ago you could upload and download damn near anything you wanted, things are under significantly tighter control now in most western countries and Japan. So you can't just assume that the status quo now will be maintained for many years ahead. Customs is far from an iron curtain but the "always fooled 'em, always will" attitude is based on a pretty short-term view of things. So get it while the goin's good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Since I've been here, I've spent about a grand on 4 stunning pieces, the Speedmaster Moon Watch with the Venus copy hand wind movement, a Speedmaster Broad Arrow, an ETA powered stainless Submariner, and a new 7750 powered Bentley GT. Man you're a fast learner. Excellent choices indeed...and great reps. The quality and craftsmanship in these watches is nothing short of remarkable for the price. The Submariner fooled a Rolex regional sales representative, the Broad Arrow won compliments in a high end jewlrey store, and all run to within 3-5 seconds accurate per day after adjustment. In some recent posts however, respected members here raised the point that some replicas are getting so good that genuine companies, who have always viewed tha replica industry as a flattering annoyance, might begin to get serious about cracking down on counterfeits. Shipping problems, which I believe were linked to choking off the counterfeit trade, have cropped up recently. My question is are we living in the golden age of replicas right now with accuracy to originals at the highest level it's ever been and availability at the easiest level it's ever been, but this ride is due to come to a screeching halt? We've gotten too good and too easy and hard times are on the horizon. This is my concern. In other words, should I buy up every 9 out of 10 rated replica I see now before it's too late!!!! You definitely should. At least the ones you like. And I agree, I've been around for a while but I'm still just as amazed as I was when I received my first rep. I just look at my watches and think "Wow, that's a rep". Sometimes I find it hard to believe, even myself. Especially when you go to a AD and compare the 4th gen PO or Seamaster to their genuine counterparts. Even if you'd like to be cynical and ultra-objective you have to admit that they really ARE that good. Good things in life usually won't last forever, and I'm quite sure the availability of these things can become more difficult in the future. That's the pessimist in me. But even if all reps became unavailable today I'd be happy of what I've got so far. I have bought many watches that I always dreamed of. Just buy the watches you desire and enjoy the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 I believe that the members here have made some good points that we will see come to pass in the next couple of years. The Chinese are at the present time just giving lip service to the "Counterfeit problem", an EU , Japanese or American trade delegation visits ,they run a couple of sweeps shut down a Rep factory and it makes the news, everyones happy. But at some point, they will be forced to get serious. If you think the Rep watch business is big, it's small potatos to the IP losses. Imagine the amount of money Microsoft loses every year because of pirated software. I would bet that 80+% of the computers in China are running pirated copies of Windows XP, and Office. That represents millions of copies of software that they lose the revenue on. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no bleeding heart for Microsoft, but when huge companies start to really complain, things happen. An compared to microsoft, LVMH,Swatch and Richmont are pretty small potatos. I was in the Ukraine 2 years back, my wife and I were walking around Kiev, doing a little sightseeing. In the underground cross-unders for pedestrians, were table after table of CD, DVD, and Computer software. I bought the latest copy of Adobe Photoshop for the equivenlent of 5 USD. We were back in the same area again last summer, almost all the stuff that we saw the year before was gone. It was still available on a much smaller scale, but it wasn't in the open and you had to speak Ukrainian or Russian to be able to fid it. I read that Some of the EU and US computer companies basically told the Ukrainian officials, we will not move here until you clean up your IP issues. They didn't completely, but it certainly was choked off and sent underground. Personally, I feel that the choke point for replica stuff is going to come with US customs. As they get more sophisticated X-Ray and scanning equipment and in numbers to scan every package coming through the system, they will stop and confiscate more replicas. As I have said many times on this and the other forums, the US customs personnel are not stupid. They have in the past lacked the resources to scan and examine every package. It's hard to pass a rep off as genuine if the customs folks have the proper tools and are motivated to look for replica watches. I believe that the motivation factor is a big one. Motivation usually comes from above. Someone high up in US Customs send down a memo that all packages containing a watch or watches will be closely looked at. Along with some criteria, such as, Watch is in a proper box(not bubble wrapped in an envelope), Watch has paperwork,instructions,hang tags,erc. Customs declaration is relevent to the watch in the box, I.e. Rolex Submariner declared for 20.00 as a gift to Uncle Arthur. If these criteria are not met, the watch is held. Two things can then happen, they destroy the watch as a fake, or they hit the buyer with customs duties for the real value of the watch. If this happens on a regular basis, the buyers will all disappear. I'm certainly not going to send someone 200-400 USD for a replica if I think that 1. It has a <20% chance of making it through customs or 2. I'm going to get a bill for another 200 USD for customs duties. Sorry for this big rambling statement, but this all boils down to the question "are we in the Golden Age of Replicas" Personally, I believe we are. How long will it last, who knows, but I believe that when it ends, it will be pretty quick, not drawn out over 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectionist Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Isn't it great being born at the right time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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