George , wm9 , real gold , watchmaker9 , TT

[styler]

Is anyone on here considering purchasing a watch from George (aka

[Shundi]

....I'll be following this thread thanks for posting!

[styler]

I just don't get it... I posted this over at RG and it was immediately removed. I was told my issue was with that site, not RG and not to post that there.

I only posted this on the forums because the info was buried and I thought I was helping the rep community. Geesh!

I'm sure there will be others that will condemn me for it too.

UPDATE:

What's wrong with the admin at RG?

I was just booted from there for making a second post which simply said check out RWI and RWG for a telling post about the wm9 gold watches before you make a purchase.

I did not post any links what so ever and I only said I'm still not sure as to why my original post was deleted.

Here is a screen shot of the pm's from the RG admin:

Edited December 12, 2008 by styler

[im2]

Strange things. You joined today but you seem well informed... who are you anyway ?

I dont think it is sooooo bad having a hidden section in his (wm9) forum.

The only thing that has bothered me is the movement issue. When BK announced the WM9 v2 sub, i posted that he should ensure that it will be a real ETA and not a copy one, something that BK, as a trusty guy, would do. Then, i was unexplainably "attacked" by an established member here.. He said that if George said it is ETA, then it is whithout questioning it...

[jake48]

Strange things. You joined today but you seem well informed... who are you anyway ?

I dont think it is sooooo bad having a hidden section in his (wm9) forum.

The only thing that has bothered me is the movement issue. When BK announced the WM9 v2 sub, i posted that he should ensure that it will be a real ETA and not a copy one, something that BK, as a trusty guy, would do. Then, i was unexplainably "attacked" by an established member here.. He said that if George said it is ETA, then it is whithout questioning it...

BINGO!

I would easily have as much concern, if not more, for the person who posted this thread. Two posts? Something smells fishy here... We have all been down the "George is a scammer" route before. George may not always get it exactly right, but to imply he is purposely misleading people flies in the face of the NUMEROUS people who have been dealing with him over the past SEVERAL years. My experience with George, as well as many others here, is that a when you email him stating your questions/concerns, he makes every attempt to answer in a honest and forthright way.

Over the last few years George has developed a solid reputation of making honest efforts to correct or better the development of his watches, often as a result of the suggestion or recommendation from members here on this board. You probably won't get much of an argument if you were whining about George's high prices (yes they can be high), but one thing for sure - George delivers (although sometime it can take a while)

Why don't you tell us about yourself styler? Do you own any Reps? How did you find RG & RWG? Who do you know here that would vouch for you?

By any chance do you sell Reps or are you affiliated with a dealer.... :D :D :D :D :D

[styler]

Strange things. You joined today but you seem well informed... who are you anyway ?

Just someone who was about to pull the trigger on a wm9 TT.

When BK announced the WM9 v2 sub, i posted that he should ensure that it will be a real ETA and not a copy one, something that BK, as a trusty guy, would do.

BK is top shelf. Did you notice after BK made an inquiry about the 2892-a2 movement, wm9 removed "Genuine ETA" from the description? But when this gold issue was brought to his attention, he buried it.

Then, i was unexplainably "attacked" by an established member here..

I know, I know. Some people have their own agenda and others are walking through life with their butt on their shoulders. I sometimes wonder if those types of people can actually chew gum and walk at the same time.

[jake48]

Just someone who was about to pull the trigger on a wm9 TT.

About to? Yeah, I was about to buy an island in the South Paciifc...

Do you mean a WM9 TT like this one? I did... Hands down the best TT (aside from Gen) you can get.

Edited December 12, 2008 by jake48

[styler]

Why don't you tell us about yourself styler? Do you own any Reps? How did you find RG & RWG? Who do you know here that would vouch for you?

By any chance do you sell Reps or are you affiliated with a dealer.... :D :D :D :D :D

See, hear we go... Can you chew gum and walk at the same time??? :D :D :D :D :D

Everyone should keep an open mind when reading through forum posts . You know... the glass is half full/half empty. Instead of automatically thinking I'm out to bash wm9, couldn't one just as easily think that my post was made because I am interested in a wm9 watch at this time and my research has turned up some things that have made me doubt his claims and I'm just sharing what has come to light? I'm not out to get anyone, but when something smells fishy, I think it should be reported for all to see. Not buried

I guess the drama can be entertaining, but not my true intent. I believe in sharing knowledge if it helps others. Sometimes it's good news and sometimes it's bad news for both sellers and buyers.

I remember getting ready to pull the trigger on the "Check Out" button on Blue Fakes but something inside told me not to. I searched for many, many days and finally came across the forums (just like everyone else) and received sound advice from so many helpful folks, it only seems right to take the time to report things of this nature to help others as I've been helped.

[southcoast68]

I'll be following this with interest also.

(hey, where did the popcorn eating smiley go?.....)

[styler]

Hands down the best TT (aside from Gen) you can get.

Maybe it is to you, but can you tell me if the gold parts are really gold? It may not matter to you. However, misrepresenting a product does matter to non-complacent people. And yea... I really was going to buy the TT until this came out. So p*ss off!!!

[styler]

One more thing... I can post pics of my BK Mariner as well. It's the best Sub for the price. But there's one major difference. I know what I paid for.

Edited December 12, 2008 by styler

[emuozz]

Thanks for posting this, RG doesn

[doc savage]

What's wrong with the admin at RG?

I was just booted from there for making a second post which simply said check out RWI and RWG for a telling post about the wm9 gold watches before you make a purchase.

I did not post any links what so ever and I only said I'm still not sure as to why my original post was deleted.

RG is a cool forum, but reporting scammers there is like getting your news from Sesame Street.

[jake48]

Maybe it is to you, but can you tell me if the gold parts are really gold? It may not matter to you. However, misrepresenting a product does matter to non-complacent people. And yea... I really was going to buy the TT until this came out. So p*ss off!!!

WOW! You don't want drama, but you come on here with two posts, accusing someone who has developed a solid reputation here of things that have been hashed out in the past and then spout of with cr@p like the stuff above - interesting to say the least...

Clearly you don't have a clue. For starters, just about about every "gold" Rep has real gold, there are few exceptions... The question is not is it "real" gold - the question is whether or not the parts are "plated" (some like to call it "wrapped") or is the gold "Solid". Anyway, given that anyone with half a brain, and I assume you have half a brain, who wanted to do a search would find that the whole "Is it real gold or is it fake gold drama has been rehashed here ad nauseum - you are one of two things:

1. Someone who is lazy and does not want to use the search button.

2. Someone who intentionally came on here to stir up some "drama"

Why don't you start by introducing yourself, use the search button and get to know a few people here before you start spouting more cr@p that you clearly have no clue what you are talking about...

[blue_sphere]

I was involved in that gold thead.

It was a real thread that george moved. I also posted a thread on gold and george deleted it.

[jake48]

RG is a cool forum, but reporting scammers there is like getting your news from Sesame Street.

Doc -RG's issues aside, your statement regarding "scammers" is exactly how internet legends and myths are started. By making that statement in this thread you seem to be implying that WM9 is a scammer. Maybe you meant to, maybe you did not, but think about the context of your statement in this thread and then think about the guy who started this thread.

Some guy, with absolutely no established reputation, thinks he is "on" to something, posts his "evidence" (Of what, I am not really sure) and the next thing you know, people are saying I heard from someone, who heard from someone, who heard from someone, so and so is a "scammer"...

The whole WM9 is a scammer, WM9 doesn't use real gold, WM9 sells the same Rep you can get for cheaper at a way higher price etc etc etc has seen plenty of double digit page threads here at RWG. Any one of the people around here with a long standing history will tell you that all though many don't agree with WM9 and his prices - a scammer he is not.

Clearly someone here is trying to start some sh!t and a simple search of WM9 can and will reveal the truth. There is nothing new here to "watch" (hey that was a pretty good pun he he he he) as it has all been gone over before.

Ask someone like BK who knows WM9 or better yet, if you are someone who wants to know - email George yourself, don't take my word or anyone else's for that matter. I think you will find George will try and answer your questions honestly and thoroughly.

I really can't see how anyone can take this clown seriously...

[georgegrasser]

I don't know if he is a scammer or not, but he uses grades like AAA and sells the Explorer I for over $500. How can the Explorer I cost that much I figured? So I just moved on.

[doc savage]

Doc -RG's issues aside, your statement regarding "scammers" is exactly how internet legends and myths are started. By making that statement in this thread you seem to be implying that WM9 is a scammer. Maybe you meant to, maybe you did not, but think about the context of your statement in this thread and then think about the guy who started this thread.

Some guy, with absolutely no established reputation, thinks he is "on" to something, posts his "evidence" (Of what, I am not really sure) and the next thing you know, people are saying I heard from someone, who heard from someone, who heard from someone, so and so is a "scammer"...

The whole WM9 is a scammer, WM9 doesn't use real gold, WM9 sells the same Rep you can get for cheaper at a way higher price etc etc etc has seen plenty of double digit page threads here at RWG. Any one of the people around here with a long standing history will tell you that all though many don't agree with WM9 and his prices - a scammer he is not.

Clearly someone here is trying to start some sh!t and a simple search of WM9 can and will reveal the truth. There is nothing new here to "watch" (hey that was a pretty good pun he he he he) as it has all been gone over before.

Ask someone like BK who knows WM9 or better yet, if you are someone who wants to know - email George yourself, don't take my word or anyone else's for that matter. I think you will find George will try and answer your questions honestly and thoroughly.

I really can't see how anyone can take this clown seriously...

I don't know or care about WM9's watches or prices, but if someone sells you gold and it turns out to be NOT gold, you got scammed.

Why defend George in this case? He was clearly leading his customers to believe they were getting real gold and profiting from that lie. Definition of a scammer.

I'm sure he's a nice guy like you say; maybe he'll be really nice and refund everybody the price difference.

[jake48]

I don't know or care about WM9's watches or prices, but if someone sells you gold and it turns out to be NOT gold, you got scammed.

Why defend George in this case? He was clearly leading his customers to believe they were getting real gold and profiting from that lie. Definition of a scammer.

I'm sure he's a nice guy like you say; maybe he'll be really nice and refund everybody the price difference.

Good points - if they were true - but there in lies (pun intended) the problem...

I will try and share my experience with WM9 - maybe you can add yours (if you have one)

Black Helicopters, Mystreries IP addresses, Drop Shipping. AKA's, Triple A ratings and "REAL GOLD"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's get right to the point -

Does WM9 use real gold? Just email him and ask him. I did. In short, the answer is YES! It always cracks me when I see people get their panties all up in a wad because they didn't get their $9,000.00 ROLEX Two Tone for $250.00 (In Georges case I think it is closer to $500.00) and can you believe it - the gold isn't even SOLID! Give me a frigg'n break, solid gold? What kind of person pays $250.00 for a REPLICA and expects solid 18k? Are you nuts? Now the real question is - What does George claim? Ask him - he will tell you. He claims real gold just like all the other guys out there selling Reps. I don't really like the word game these guys play (and yes, they ALL play it) so I asked George specific questions and he gave me specific answers.

The gold he uses is REAL

The gold is 18K

The gold is PLATED!

Come on, you really didn't think it was solid did you? George will tell you if you ask him...

No were on his site does it say "SOLID" 18k. He describes his parts as "18k yellow gold" I emailed him and he told me - the parts (Bracelet center links, bezel & crown) are plated with 18k in Taiwan. Taiwan because you can get the heaviest plating (some refer to it as wrapping) than in any other country due to Taiwan's lax environmental restrictions (Without getting into specifics, the process used in Taiwan is an older method of plating that produces toxic fumes outlawed/deeply regulated in most countries).

This brought me to the real question - Who has the best plating? Hands down it is George. Trust me, I have bought every Rep TT ever made and George is the ONLY one who gets the genuine look of solid 18k gold right. Did you look at the pictures of the watch I posted? The crown is genuine and the bezel is not. Side by side you can not see the difference...

As far as the bracelet goes - I don't trust anyone - so I took a link of my WM9 to my trusted jeweler and he tested it. Yep - just what George told me it was -SOLID 18k PLATING and my jeweler commented on what a nice plating job it was. No scamming here...

All this "drama" about George and his gold claims has been gone over before, It really is silly. Just using a little common sense will enable you to figure it out.

As far the other "Evidence" of George being a scammer - mysterious IP address, hidden identities, drop shipping etc -They're Replicas for Christs sake! You have got to be kidd'n... Hell. Joshua changes domains and web addresses like most people change underwear. Does that make him a "Scammer"? It's frigg'n illegal activity! What moron would make it easy to find him if he were a dealer. Use some common sense man!

And the drop shipping. Oh MY GOD! THE HORROR OF IT ALL! This makes George a scammer? By this criteria most of the "Trusted" dealers here are "scammers". Kind of a stupid claim for "scammer" if you ask me. Trust me, i don't like drop shipping any more than any one else, but in the Rep world it is a reality. The real question is when you get that buggered up rep with the misaligned dial or flaky plating, will the dealer make it right? On every concern I have ever had with George he has made it right. What 'scammer" does this?

Grade 1, Triple A ratings Yeah, I call bullsh!t on this one. Lots of scam sites use these "ratings" to lure people into thinking they are getting the best and you are foolish if you believe the stuff. Why George uses that stupid stuff I don't know. What I can tell you, however, is that he is the real dealeo. He has produced watches that people said wouldn't be done and he has produced them with the quality he claimed - that is a FACT.

His high end stuff really has no equal and his other stuff, well, let's just say you better spend some time using the search button. I assure you that it can be found for a better price. Does that make George a "Scammer" not in my book.

Oh yes - the black helicopters... Almost forgot. I heard from someone, who heard from someone, who once bought a Rep from George that a Black Helicopter followed this person around for days. The good news is that the helicopter went away when this person started to wear his aluminum foil helmet. You see, if you cover your head in aluminum it makes you invisible and the helicopters can't see you - at least that's what I heard...

Edited December 13, 2008 by jake48

[repfreak]

Comon, if he is blocked in RG, I dont see the need to reposting it here to risk getting block again. If you are being blocked in RG, wont it be a smarter or better way to contact BK to clarify instead of double posting it and trying to create a big

hoo-ha? I smell a rat...

[blue_sphere]

Jake,

I feel that you are getting very emotionally involved in this thread.

I was part of the "solid gold" thread and it was disappointing to me that george removed it. It was very... "fishy"

"fishy" in the sense that he moved that thread, but left one from boogie claiming his watch was 100% solid gold.

[Shundi]

Jake,

I feel that you are getting very emotionally involved in this thread.

I was part of the "solid gold" thread and it was disappointing to me that george removed it. It was very... "fishy"

"fishy" in the sense that he moved that thread, but left one from boogie claiming his watch was 100% solid gold.

I agree...I'm not sure why there's so much hostility directed towards the OP... he's not saying "Oh and by the way...I'M selling solid gold Rolex reps" he's simply posting his experience for the benefit of the membership...if people don't like it, they can continue to buy from George, etc... but I don't see any harm in having it show up in a search (especially when several other established members have mentioned they were involved in that thread and can attest to it's authenticity) when they are considering making a purchase...

People can choose to use and misuse information but the most powerful weapon is the ability to ignore information and filter it out..if someone wants to purchase from George and they do the research, they can make an informed decision as to whether or not to buy...and that includes Jake's comments regarding his experiences... "right and wrong" are in the eyes of the person doing the research and it's up to that person to decide how they want to weigh the information... our job as forum members is to ensure that the information and dialogue related to that information are presented fairly and accurately. Seeing as OP's screenshots have been implicitly confirmed by others who were present and posting in the thread, I personally don't see why it can't stay...

[jake48]

"Hostility" "Our Job" You have got be kidd'n me. Did you even bother to read the type of language the disgruntled OP was using? The best thing you said is that anyone reading this thread should use the search button, read and figure it out themselves.

Like I said, this whole WM9 is a scammer thing is really getting old. If you were really doing your "job" you would be asking questions of the OP. A few here have noticed, as well as I, that this guy has zero credibility. When he posted his complaint (and that is all it really is) over at RG and didn't get what he wanted he came over here to stir the pot and you guys took the bait.

What this guy is saying is nothing new and I guess I don't have much patience for a two poster who came over here to "warn" people about a mythical boogie man.

Notice the guy doesn't have anyone to vouch for him?

If you don't smell a rat then you really aren't that good at your "job" of protecting the members here... Not that anyone here needs it anyway. Collectively, everyone here seems to do a pretty good job of figuring it out themselves...

[Shundi]

Listen, the first thing that I posted was that I would be watching this thread....take that as you will, but the message was that I'd be watching not only the OP but the comments and the content of every post. Do I trust OP? Well, I thought to myself "Hmm...joined today and posting screenshots of something I've never seen...lets see how it plays out" Did I give OP a gold medal and say that he is a bright, shining star? Did I say that we should immediately not trust George and that he is a terrible person etc, etc?

No. I didn't.

And, for your information, I have no trouble reading nor do I have issues with comprehension. What I see is someone who is, ipso facto, disgruntled (as you said, the language of his post shows that) who is presenting the forum with screenshots and an explanation. Has it been said/proven before? Yes. Are there issues with the wording on George's site? Depends on who you are. Personally, I could care less...I've done my research on George and my research determines where my money goes. So far, I haven't had any issues (knock on wood)

The issue I was pointing out was the lambasting of the OP.... Is he a shill? A plant? Is it George's evil twin brother, Cletus? Is it, perhaps, Tom Cruise on a mission from the Church of Scientology to take down George's reputation in the name of Xenu? Don't know, could care less... my point is that he hasn't done anything *wrong*. Has he repeated information? Sure, search around...there's plenty of discussion regarding solid vs plated gold and 14kt vs 18kt and acid etching tests and this and that and the list goes on, and on and on... I agree completely with most of your points... however you make a point against a "two poster" who came here to warn people etc, etc....so what? You've posted in defence of of George in numerous threads, even pre-empting negative comments about him in your (beautiful, by the way) TT Sub pictorial and review... what would you do if OP said you were a rat or a shill? There was an incident over on RG a few weeks back where a certain moderator basically accused a very, very prominent Rolex modding expert (posting under a different name than he normally does) of being a shill, etc....that came back to bite him in the ass... is this the case? Idk, but I really hate seeing someone get totally flamed for simply posting a head's up...regardless of whether or not I agree...

Regarding me being good at my job, etc etc... you seem to have made a habit of turning things personal. I have no issue with you and, in fact, we've had PM conversations in the past on certain other issues. I respected your judgement then, and I respect it now. I'm not saying OP is a saint and I agree that it's weird but firing personal shots over the bow at myself and others for pointing something out isn't constructive or relevant to the issue at hand.

Also regarding "My job" and protecting the membership- hell, all I can say is...I joined because I'd been scammed in the past and I'm sure many here had the same experience...I found a great group of people and I've payed it forward by helping out as I can... If you don't think there are people who don't need a helping hand to avoid the scams and pitfalls we've fallen into over the years, you haven't logged on much.

Take a look up at the shoutbox...see how many noobs there are that have absolutely no idea what they're getting into? I think we were all like that at one point and I think the best way to protect our community is by allowing things to play out...OP has made his point/posted. Several members have agreed with him (or, at the very least, have shown that the thread exists/took place since they were there) and several members have said it's a non issue and have disagreed. I, personally, read OP's comment with mild interest and then made a mental note to follow up. My above post was simply a reflection on the fact that most people would either ignore the info, post something stating a point other than OP's, disagree/agree, etc you've made the thread pretty personal (I would assume because, as you've said, you've had a great experience with George etc...as many have) and have hounded OP instead of simply saying "George isn't a scammer, I've had many a great deal with him, etc" and left it alone.

Again, it's your pejorative but that's two people in a 10-12 person thread that think you're being pretty emotional about it. Just sayin...

I've got nothing personal against you and in the interest of not clogging up the forum with [censored] for tat, I'd be happy to personally discuss anything further via PM.

Sorry for the thread going off topic everyone.

[TeeJay]

Doc -RG's issues aside, your statement regarding "scammers" is exactly how internet legends and myths are started. By making that statement in this thread you seem to be implying that WM9 is a scammer. Maybe you meant to, maybe you did not, but think about the context of your statement in this thread and then think about the guy who started this thread.

Some guy, with absolutely no established reputation, thinks he is "on" to something, posts his "evidence" (Of what, I am not really sure) and the next thing you know, people are saying I heard from someone, who heard from someone, who heard from someone, so and so is a "scammer"...

The whole WM9 is a scammer, WM9 doesn't use real gold, WM9 sells the same Rep you can get for cheaper at a way higher price etc etc etc has seen plenty of double digit page threads here at RWG. Any one of the people around here with a long standing history will tell you that all though many don't agree with WM9 and his prices - a scammer he is not.

Clearly someone here is trying to start some sh!t and a simple search of WM9 can and will reveal the truth. There is nothing new here to "watch" (hey that was a pretty good pun he he he he) as it has all been gone over before.

Ask someone like BK who knows WM9 or better yet, if you are someone who wants to know - email George yourself, don't take my word or anyone else's for that matter. I think you will find George will try and answer your questions honestly and thoroughly.

I really can't see how anyone can take this clown seriously...

It's pretty obvious that Styler is no n00b, so let's ignore the lack of posting history, and look at precicely what is being posted, not who is posting it

I can't see how you can't, if not take him seriously, at least give him the benefit of the doubt. If he's lying, then you have nothing to lose, but if he is telling the truth, then it is important information which the community deserves to hear.