The Blingiest Watch Ever?

[Guest asim]

i know that hbb is inspired by the APRO, the guy Jean-Claude Biver was working in Ap before he joined the swatch group and became CEO of hublot...

well copy or not, the watch is simply beautiful both design and qualitywise (if you ever owned or handled gen HBB you will agree with me)..ok its more a fun watch rather a "horological timepiece" but most people dont care anyway, the movt is good enough. although i of course prefer AP over HBB because design, movt all just better..

UN, its just not comparable imo. quality is ok but design is just tasteless, boring, trying too hard to impress with details..plus they use ETA base calibers...(maximarine etc)

looks a like watch you would get as gift+chocolate when you buy a yacht, lol. even that im involved with marine buisness, i dont like that brand.

I agree with your Hublot point. They are fun and regardless, even if I seem harsh on them, they are nice watches to have and look great on some.

Your UN points seem a little harsh. The quality is just as good as many other top brands. The feel and build quality is high class and their designs are created to try and suit several people. They have crazy "Freak" watches to more subtle ones. And yes they have base ETA's. But what we must remember is that they tune and reassemble them to suit their time-keeping philosophies.

Just because I don't like a certain brand does not make them any less desirable.

Regards,

Asim

[RLudlowe]

Hmmm, I wonder where AP got the idea for the ROO?

Edited February 24, 2009 by RLudlowe

[RobbieG]

Your UN points seem a little harsh. The quality is just as good as many other top brands. The feel and build quality is high class and their designs are created to try and suit several people. They have crazy "Freak" watches to more subtle ones. And yes they have base ETA's. But what we must remember is that they tune and reassemble them to suit their time-keeping philosophies.

Iceberg is always more than a little harsh. Just his forum style I suppose. Plus he is young so he probably doesn't know better yet.

But his comments are also unfounded and based on opinions and not facts. Boring? If there is any watch company that isn't boring UN has to be it. I have no idea how any human could say that really. Tasteless is another opinion. He says tasteless, I say adventurous. And the details? All horology is an obsession with detail. It is the name of the whole game so to speak.

Now for the facts. Ulysse Nardin only uses very stripped ETA ebauches of plates and balances on their basic watches and in terms of high complications and innovative design not only do they hold more patents from innovations than any other manufactory, they also have more totally in house high complication movements than ANY other manufactory except JLC. So to compare Hublot to them in any repect is just ignorant. If you like the design and it pleases youfine, but let's talk facts, not opinions. And lets talk real comparisons to UN's true peers.

Virtually all the complications produced by the Swiss fab four - AP, VC, PP & Breguet - are based on ebauches from Lemania & Piguet. So to say that those companies make in house movements is also incorrect. UN does though. The Royal Blue, The Ghengis Khan and other repeaters, The GMT+/- Perpetual, The Freak, The Sonata as you mention are all totally built in house. And as for the ETA [censored], not there is anything wrong with them, but UN has now developed the new modular Caliber 160 which will serve as the crossover base for both non-chrono and chrono movements which are not from the high complication line. Those will remain as they are and I'm sure they will keep making new ones as well. So they are actually phasing out the last of the ETA stocks as we speak.

But this brings up a final interesting point. The ETA 2894 chrono and of course the venerable 2892 which are the ebauches they use are simply more robust and better quality movements then their fragile high beat F. Piguet counterparts used by many of the fab 4. But they use them anyway because of the Swiss history they get more respect from the uninitiated. Of course they also have some of their own calibers as well, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples without opinions. I'll take a 2894 in the Maxi Marine Chrongraph over the 1185 in a Royal Oak Chrono any day of the week. It's just a better movement and I like the seconds at 3. Failure rates of 1185's are much higher. The thinness of the 1185 is it's undoing. If it would have been a 21.6K beat there would be less friction and stress but of course it isn't. Thin, fragile movements and high beats is just a bad idea. In fact, that is why most of the highest end companies use 18K and 21.6K movements as opposed to 28.8K designs. They are just stronger. They take more skill to regulate perfectly, but the robustness is higher with less stress and the service interval is longer. I'm surprised AP would change that philosphy really. Just ask Omega about that movement. The AP RO movement is the same movement as in a Planet Ocean Chronograph. The failure rates are quite high with both the RO and POC. So lets make sure we don't fall off that high horse there Bergster...

[Guest asim]

yep, I think people are really confused about the movements at times.

Most "big" watch houses use ETA bases but change most parts with their own. They should barely be called ETA at that stage. The IWC Grande Complication which is by far one of the most amazing watches on Earth is also based on a Valjoux but it is stripped and remade so much that it is truly an IWC movement.

But yeah, UN have beautiful watches and a solid long-standing history. The Genghis Khan Tourby is amazing!

(yes there are some not-so-good looking ones, but every house has a watch or two which doesn't suit each individual's liking).

Asim

[Shundi]

plus they use ETA base calibers...(maximarine etc)

AMG uses Mercedes "Base" engines... seems to work out pretty well for them eh? If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I guess it's your own opinion as to whether or not UN is "boring" stylistically but I don't think that they're boring as a company...they've got a pretty solid history (then again, so does AP...just a matter of preference really)

[RobbieG]

Alot of people have a really negative perception of ETA ebauches like they are somehow lower quality or something and it just isn't so. Personally, I have my own views about movements and prefer low beat designs with screw balances using more pure methods of regualtion, etc. I just think less friction, etc. is better in the long run and as such I respect the old dogs that use Lemania and their own low beat movements alot. But I still recognize ETA as being equal at the highest level of regulation and finish really.

That said, somehow people sometimes make the distinction that VC or Patek whoever using a Lemania or Piguet ebauche is somehow different than IWC or UN using an ETA ebauche. One os not better than another and the process is still the same to provide high level modification and decoration. They should also understand that the only real reason VC, Patek and the boys use Lemania for example is because of the reasons I mentioned above: They have a horological preference for low beat calibers and ETA doesn't offer them.

So Lemania wins by default. But people think it must mean they are better because PP or VC or whoever chose them. It's just that their options are limited. The highest grade ETA ebauches are equal in quality and decoration to the highest level Lemania ebauches. There are an equal number of high end companies that prefer high beat movements over lower beat versions. Two schools of thought really.

Rolex, Zenith, Jaeger, and Glashutte all prefer high beat movements (28.8k) for easy to achive superior rate results and shorter service intervals due to higher friction and stress which generates more revenue for the company.

On the other hand Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin, IWC, Dubuis, and Lange all prefer lower beat designs (18k/21.6k) for longer service intervals, bragging rights of movements that last for generations, the high skill it takes to adjust them using only a free sprung screw balance for more bragging rights, etc.

Many people just don't realize this and incorrectly assume ETA is just lower quality. The fact is there really aren't many other choices for 28.8 ebauches besides ETA and Jaeger and the choices for low beats are really just Lemania and Piguet (although Piguet does make some high beat stuff as well including the 1185 in the RO as I mentioned before).

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[Bibbs]

It has a hardness of 10 on the Mohs scale, which is the maximum and only diamonds are a harder substance anywhere on the face of the earth.

Genuine Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald are all the same substance naturally and only have different values due to rarity in nature.

They have a hardness of 9 on the Mohs scale (Diamonds are 10), and Emeralds are a different stone. "Oriental Emeralds" are green sapphires

And factory made sapphires are cheap as anything. It's only natural ones that are worth anything really.

[RobbieG]

Right, nine. Sorry, I meant diamonds are ten and Aluminum Oxide is 9. And of course, the lab grown stuff is very cheap. The main point really was to illustrate the differences in names realtive to color although the same substance.

As I said, values are only different between them based on rarity in nature. In the lab they are all equal, which is they cost next to nothing to produce.

That said, I would like to see more manufactories experiment with it as a bridge and plate material for skeletonized type movements. It makes perfect sense as it is very hard and inherently stable. It would be cool to see additional experiments with color and matching straps in less ornate watches. You could do it with almost anything. Imagine a 2892 or even 6497/8 which was bridgeless and screwed/jeweled to Corundum in layers just as the Royal Blue is. Experiments with very slight color of Ruby or Emerald on just a balance c*ck for example visible from the front due to transparancy - coupled with white subdials with a touch of red or green font color or indices. The possibilities are endless for non-complicated watches. The cool thing is the labor is much less intensive because you don't have to "skeletonize" anything. It is built in with the transparency. Any movement can look amazing and add color at the same time...

[Bibbs]

It makes me sound knowledgeable, but it's only due to me forking out for an engagement ring the last few months.

And if you could make 90% of the movement out of it, that would be very cool. Clear movement and dial, thn add blue coloured hands, red datewheels and green markers ..

[blue_sphere]

...MY ...GOD!

I am mortgaging my house! I must have this!

Like this? Dark blue croc and a lot less jewels (note two versions changes on inner bezel). Of course the gens still start at around $230K though...

[kevnick80]

does anyone know if you can get a rep of the UN watch in the photos above???

i wanty

kevin (watch w*h*o*r*e)

[RobbieG]

No chance. Movement will never be replicated.

[blue_sphere]

Kevin when you get to quality levels like this its impossible to replicate.

[kevnick80]

damn it

will have to sell all the Bang & Olufsen, the car, the house, the diamonds..........................................

[kevnick80]

is there no chance of any rep makers being able to make custom make one for me, or one that looks silver/blue?

i just like the look of it

[iceberg1459]

bling without ice...AP!

[RobbieG]

Interesting piece although it does nothing for me design wise. What are the specifics regarding the complication on this one? A companion to the car? Size of the case?

[iceberg1459]

Interesting piece although it does nothing for me design wise. What are the specifics regarding the complication on this one? A companion to the car? Size of the case?

tourbillion, chronograph,power reserve indicator (PR 10days)

unique chrono pushers at 10 and 2.

carbon mainplate, anodised aluminum bridges, 47mm platinum case, all parts finished by hand, engravings,fit,finish and the engineering are just top of the top...

and AP is the only and best manufacturer who can be "haute horologie" without being boring but sporty and cool using modern materialmix etc....and you just cant even compare UN to this imo...

but one thing is certain that our tastes and viewpoints are really VERY different

[RobbieG]

Well boring, sporty, and cool are all subjective as you say. I would rate UN more innovative due to the sheer volume of interesting innovations and they certainly lead in industry awards and accolades for complications. AP isn't really trying to compete in that arena and hasn't for some time. They just want to make RO's clearly as it is nearly all of their focus. And why not? It is a great watch and a brand defining line for them. I'm not sure where they would be without it to be honest as they haven't kept up focus on traditional movement development and old school refinement anywhere near their truest competitors (which is not UN) of Patek and Vacheron. AP is far less adventurous in that respect. Like UN, they are still using ebauches for most of the key pieces, as are Patek and VC actually. That is kind of a dirty little secret in that they all love to have people think that their base movements are in house when they are not.

Moreover, as soon as anyone hears ETA it is a licence to pick on someone which is laughable if you really know movements at all. That repuation only happened because ETA makes low end quartz movements and because 2824's and 7750 are used in many affordable watches. But the 2892 is in a whole different league and it is really the only serious ebauche ETA ever intended to be taken 100% seriously for high end work. But it is just as high end really. Take the JLC 889 which is the equivalent to the 2892. Truth be told, the 2892 is an equally robust and actually a far more useable and expandable ebauche. Is the highest level of pre-shipment decoration available higher with the 889 than the 2892 before it lands at the decoration bench? Well sure, but that is a moot point when the manufacture decorates them in house. If AP or UN or whoever applies a chamfer or perlage or whatever finish to a JLC bridge or an ETA bridge the result will be the same. That said, AP does have a slightly better finish spec across the board than UN, but then they should as their base level watches are twice the cost of UN's. Most any higher end UN is equal though in that respect.

But we should probably clear something up after all these threads Berg, I really don't have any unfounded brand loyalty toward UN as you seem to for AP which stem from your love of the designs. I don't like most of UN's high complication designs at all. But I have to call the shot objectively when it comes to raw innovation. Although I have two UN's I wouldn't even say they are my favorite brand at all. I am VERY much what I would call a "category" type collector which keys more on what I need to fil certain shoes for real world "wear the watch" applications. So the reason I have a MMD to fill the shoes of the bling sports watch ala YM category is simple. At that price point I have shopped and found it to be the most robust, perfectly sized, and highly finished watch available hands down. Similarly, the Dual Time is the easiest to use and most creative patented GMT system available at any cost. In both cases, the bases are very highly finished 2892's which I am truly proud to own. I can honestly say I wouldn't want another movement in either of them. Parts are readily available in comparatively inexpensive as there are so many in production, the rotor and winding are dead quiet and perfect, and the finish is as nice as you will ever see at their price points. And in the case of the Dual Time, the watch would pretty much be impossible to be conceived using another movement. NOBODY - JLC, Piguet, Lemania, etc. make a compact and practical ebauche designed to accept seconds at 6, a 24 hour home time disc, and a two disc date display accepting the in house jumping hour module without major construction and modification. If anyone else made this watch (or even if UN did) with another movement it would not be financially feasable. They would have to charge twenty grand for it. So thank God for the 2892 ebauche. It really is perfect how they made that whole package work including even the perpetual module in additon to all this.

Beyond all that, my collection hasn't even quite gotten yet to my truly favorite brands as I needed to build the core part of my collection with more typical less expensive sporty type watches first. My true passion lies in Vacheron, Lange, and Patek as I am very into traditional low beat rate movements and more of an old world charm and feel. My grails are the new Vacheron Patrimony Traditionelle Chronograph, a Lange 1, A Patek 5119 Hobnail, and if I ever get really rich a Langematik Perpetual or a Malte Perpetual. Although again, for the money, I have to say the Nardin GMT +/- Perpetual is amazing. Basically my Dual Time functionally with the addition of the calendar. A great, affordable every day perpetual if there is such a thing. I like the Sonata alot too as I think it is a good idea for a travel watch to have an alarm. That watch is again basically my Dual Time in function plus a repeater for the alarm function...

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