betenoir Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I have it bad.... I fell in love the PAM watches and after two DSN reps (240 and 229 Firenze)- I was looking at the DSN ultimate Fiddy. However I am not completely happy with the available models. Then I fell in love with the vintage PAMs. After pricing Stephan's excellent work for a 6152 ( which I love love love) I thought at this price point, why not get a gen? Not a MM or Fiddy but a 111/104 level. Both are reasonably priced and potentially within my desired range without giving up a kidney. Yes I know the Reps are of models significantly more valuable than the near entry models I am considering, so its apples to oranges. Now my question: For your money what are the pros and cons of the 104 vs 111. I really love the sandwich dial and the beautiful movement but manual wind is, for me a drag. I like ( need?) the date but the simpler face is aesthetically more pleasing... The 111 is slightly less expensive and I have been leaning towards this model but not for price per se. I went to the AD with the economy where it is, they have both. And a small discount. Thoughts and suggestions? Anyone tire of the rewinding on the manual? Anyone with automatic regret not being able to see the movement? I am going nuts between the two. thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Hard choice Dude. Have you tried them both on? What was your gut feeling? If you can get a F series 111 then that would be a good one. I think decorated bridges are a bit of a Must IMHO. But the thing that would bother me is our Reps are just so good why drop around 4k on a gen. So that puts the 104 as the magnifier and Date font are a real bonus. I actually miss the date on my historics some timesAnd the K+ series strap system is a good rep v gen difference. Either one would be nice to own at the end of the day, good to have the choice I guess ST4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 For me it is the historic handwind models that are the soul of Panerai. I don't like the sandwich dial, other than in the Fiddy, so I would go for the 111 or 112, either E, F or G series. Same movement style in these three series, with the PANERAIPANERAI engraving. The E & F are basically the same but the G has the larger crownguard. It's the only series with the older style 'painted' dial, nicer movement and the larger CG, so has a slight edge on exclusivity. Each to their own, but the auto models with a cyclops, date window and the secs in the wrong place just look all wrong IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 There are several gen Pam owners here... Im sure they will chime in shortly, as they all started with the DSN's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 It's all a matter of personal taste really I have a gen 002-D and a few gen dial "frankens" - whilst the 002 is a lovely watch , I wasn't as overwhelmed by the differences in Gen vs Rep as I expected. It is possible with time , some money and a good watchsmith to build you own very good quality rep even better with genuine parts if you can find them. That said - the 002 is one of the simplest watches out there with less details to distinguish it from reps other than build and finish. I agree with PAMMan that 111-G has the optimum choice of "classic and collectable" Panerai elements in it's build versus most earlier and later incarnations of the Luminor Marina entry model. It is a very versatile watch. The automatics are much harder to replicate with the same attention to detail and finish as on handwounds - the crystal , cyclops , datewheel are in a class of their own. If I was starting again and only had to choose one genuine PAM for every day wear , I think I'd go for the 104. But there's no such thing as ..."just one PAM" Good luck FGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omni Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 A gen is a gen and no rep is going to be so exact that it can't be distinguished from a gen, especially when it comes to overall fit & finish, you can't compare the two. Almost all rep. aficionados on these forums, with large rep. collections, will always wind up buying a gen. or two or three........... Some like to justify their rep. collection sickness telling themselves that they can buy 30 reps for the price of a gen, but when it all comes down to it, a gen will somehow windup in the collection. That said, if you are thinking of getting the gen. Pam 104 or 111, it is just a matter of personal tastes as you can show it off to most people and they won't know what the hell it is. It is the personal satisfaction and feeling that you have for the watch, I can't get along very well without a date window since I'm in business and constantly looking for the date, thus I own a gen. 104. I could care less if I can see the movement, its just a personal satisfaction I have for the watch, (and after going through 25 reps!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK471 Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 I agree with FGD, if I were to have just one PAM for every day, it would be the 104, really just because of the date function. It is fun to "interact" with the handwound watch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betenoir Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 I agree with FGD, if I were to have just one PAM for every day, it would be the 104, really just because of the date function. It is fun to "interact" with the handwound watch though. There's the rub. So If one theoretically likes to run and needs a rough and tumble watch ( daily is gen Sub) but I love my PAM rep esp 240 with deployment. The manual wind with see through is aethetically more pleasing to me ( my taste) but the automatic is functonally better with date. Correct em if I am wrong, there is no manual wind date. Also the auto with date is heaver and more costly? How do y'all feel about winding? Any other intangibles? BTW here's the crux- I don't care if anyone else knows what it is. It's not for status for me, its more about reverse status- I know what it is and what it means. In this sense, I was thinking about a Rolex Daytona ( rep) as a trial balloon to buying a gen and I found rwg. And Panerai. So different and so much more of what I was looking for. Another question- someone sees your rep and says nice panerai- How do you respond? a)Thanks b)It's a rep c)Its my favorite watch ( noncommittal) BN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Answer: Thanks! **** As a fan of resale, I would go for the handwind. Above one of our members state that the handwind models are more of a pure watch (in terms of the origin of Panerai). This is certainly true, and to add to the argument I believe the reslae to be far better on a handwind model. The core of Panerai is simplicity and function.....if you are looking for a watch with complications and something to play with, this is the wrong brand for you. BUT it all comes down to what you enjoy and like. ...not to restate what another member has already said, but I correlate Panerai with the dial spacing and the automatics do not follow the same rules and look awkward (to me). Another note: buy it right! meaning -- buy it at fair market value. Research the watches that start at $1 on eBay and monitor their hammer prices. That is your target. Then you know what you can dump it for in the future when your tastes change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweattdogg Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 I went with the 111. I bought an F series to get the PaneraiPaneraiPanerai decoration. I think that's a must if you get the 111. The manual wind has never bothered me, but I don't wear my watch daily, but in a rotation with a few others. Personally, I like the 111 much better than the 104, but lately i've been digging the base models for thier simplicity. If you need the date function go ahead with 104, but otherwise I'd go with the 111. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promotersf Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 With the economy being where it's at, there are TREMENDOUS watch buying opportunities in the used/resale market. I would keep an eye on ebay, risti and Timezone for some killer deals. I'm maxed out with my PAM collection with 4 gens and 3 reps right now, but there are some deals I would have fallen over for last year if they were available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betenoir Posted March 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 With the economy being where it's at, there are TREMENDOUS watch buying opportunities in the used/resale market. I would keep an eye on ebay, risti and Po for some killer deals. I'm maxed out with my PAM collection with 4 gens and 3 reps right now, but there are some deals I would have fallen over for last year if they were available. [/quo Thanks. I tend to obsess over the 111 and may go the eBay route. There are several reputable dealers in my area that I'll go visit to see an F in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfox67 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 With the economy being where it's at, there are TREMENDOUS watch buying opportunities in the used/resale market. I would keep an eye on ebay, risti and Timezone for some killer deals. I'm maxed out with my PAM collection with 4 gens and 3 reps right now, but there are some deals I would have fallen over for last year if they were available. Well for my gens I tend to buy them new or sometimes used but always from shops I know as I prefer to see and feel the watch on my hands before making the final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) The gen PAMs I've owned/currently own - PAM002D (sold); PAM210I (sold); PAM114E (current). I love the Historic line and wouldn't even consider the 104 compared to the 111. The only autos I would be after are the 024, the 196/188 or the 063/029/023 center-seconds GMTs. But in the end, it's all about what speaks to YOU. Edited March 30, 2009 by peepshow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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