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I would have to say the NSD... Love this thing.

Good News guys, this tube is perfect. Just received mine for the 5514 project, everyone knows that dbane and I have been tearing our hair out because of the strange thread pitch on the gen 702 tubes. Anyway, gen 702 crown screws down like butter. Tube screws into the case smoothly and seats perfectly how it should. This tube gets an A+ and I am happy to say that I can finally assembly my 5514. Thanks Athaya, great f'ing job.

ZF factory PAM 389 I wasn’t in hurry to order this watch, especially since Joshua told me the watch is also “in making” in Kuvarsit factory. I read the whole Angus’ thread on RG referring to release of this rep. When it was available from Joshua, I pulled the trigger. Delivery was very slow due to the Christmas time and so on but I got it few days ago Angus stated the maker (ZF - the final assembly stage owner, I suppose) has the gen. What I think is they had a gen for a while, disassembled it and then had to give it back so some parts were made against maybe photos of gen or measurements taken while the gen was in their possession. I will mention references to this concept several times during this review. The genuine PAM 389 was the second amagnetic watch from Panerai; the first one was PAM 92, limited edition, and was worn by explorer Mike Horn during one of his Artic expeditions. Basic principle when making any mechanic watch antimagnetic one is to put it’s movement in a kind of Faraday cage, made of soft iron. Soft iron vs hard iron is rather a term describing their magnetic properties. In hard iron, the domains will not shift back to their starting points when the magnetic field is taken away. In soft iron, the domains return to being randomly aligned when the field is removed. So, You cannot magnetize soft iron. Hint #1 - maker has an access to the gen: The internals of the watch case is a “cage in a cage” construction. The movement is covered in a soft iron cage, together with snap-on cap on the back and soft iron plate under the dial. The cage is mounted within watch case by rubber bars. There is a groove on internal walls of watch case, corresponding to the groove on the external wall of Faraday cage; rubbers bars are to be put between these two grooves so the soft iron cage is being kept inside watch case, being pressed towards sapphire side the same time. Rubber bars are providing some kind of “G-shock”-like protection to the watch, against bumps from the side of the watch. This is quite difficult to find detailed description of how it was made in gen 389, that’s why I think the maker had an access to the gen since the rep is made the same way (I am not sure they put soft iron plate under the dial in the rep…. probably not). While having it more shock resistant is fine thing - we need to know that the whole movement ‘swims’ inside the watch case and there is no way to i.e. rotate the movement to align the dial better since there are no metal mounting plates secured by screws. You can rotate the movement quite easy but the moment you snap the crown to the standard position - the whole movement moves to that stress-free position and Your correction is lost in the same moment. It is by design so it is so important to have crown tube at the correct position on the case. Hint #2 - maker has an access to the gen: The bezel construction was somehow shown on the photos Angus posted in his thread on RG. The bezel mechanism looks quite complicated and I believe maker tried to replicate gen idea since there are probably easier ways to do unidirectional bezel than this: How does it function in our rep? Well, it feels cheap. There is a lot of play between steps, like 1/2 of minute (on 60 steps bezel). When You rotating it, the force needed to turn changes, it is not smooth - on my watch it “hangs” at about 6 o’clock and you need to use more force to continue rotating of the bezel. I put some oil into the mechanism but it did not help much… Anyway, on my rep the “natural position” of the bezel is a half a minute past 12… exactly like on gen photo on Panerai’s site Hint #3 - maker has lost his access to the gen: The bezel ring has manufacturing problems - the carbs on the edge are different that on the gen. Polished metal pins were too long (were sticking too high above surface of ceramic inlay) but were corrected before final production stage. These things are just obvious when comparing with a gen in the hand - that’s why I think the maker was not having the gen anymore at that stage of manufacturing. The same goes to the dial - according to Angus he was asked to confirm the dial printing - why on Earth anyone would need anybody to confirm such a thing while having the gen? So they were without a gen at that time, too. The question: is the bezel made of titanium? The problem of titanium is to use titanium grade 5 (Ti-6Al-4V) to be able to polish it (according to Panerai’s explanation of use of materials). It is polished on the rep but not especially mirror-like. So, maybe it is titanium of a lower grade or polishing was just so-so… The dial shifted printing story Half of dials have all printing shifted approx. 0.5 mm to the right. Of course Angus took the responsibility by admitting he confirmed wrongly printed dials as correct ones because they were presented to him without hour indexes. OK…. maybe. The real problem is that I have carefully checked all available photos of the rep and the dial has its printings all over the place, to the left, to the right and most of time - at correct position. Regardless the time the rep was delivered. So to me, it is purely quality control thing, or the lack of it…. On my 389 it looks like this: OK, down to the details of the replication: - case - good workmanship, good finish of the area between lugs, correct caseback, overall it is great. - bezel ceramic part - good ceramic inlay replication, good polished SS studs, good 12 pearl albeit the shape of luminova insert is not as per gen. Be careful when QC this rep due to crooked 15,30 and 45 studs. - bezel ring - poor working, cheap feel when rotating, noticeable loose and with random resistance to be felt while rotating. Carbs on the bezel’s edge are too shallow - and thus of a bit wrong shape. It is not a big issue, just for my “one look is enough to recognize it as a rep” - crystal - very good with colorless AR on the inside - dial - good dial with nicely pronounced subdial, QC fails for position of printings, superluminova - hands - nice ones but somehow not flat - they look like they were polished using electropolishing hence overall ‘roundness’. Nice luminova, with usual “there are luminova on edges, too” mistake - movement - A7750 with decoration as “P.9000”. I suppose they have a lot of these P.9000-like movements and they sorted nicer ones for watches with display caseback while movements with poor QC of decorative plates installation are to be put in closed caseback watches like PAM 389. Poor printings, crooked decoration plate over balance wheel - just enough to make You hate it when visible. Overoiled movement, there were oil fingerprints visible on the date wheel, even through date window (!) . After regulation it keeps +1 sec/day, and KEEPS it like that Due to rubber bars movement holding method - the dial is crooked a bit and there is nothing to do with that. Anyway, it doesn’t bother. - rubber strap - soft and nice, better than the one from PAM 243. Really like this one. Bottom line: it looks like ZF maker uses the same subcontractors like Noob. Maybe it is a kind of successor to Noob, who knows… Anyway, one missing thing is Quality Control during assembly. “What quality control?!” - I may even ask… Even Angus mentioned that he had to return great deal of them back to the maker due to lack of quality. General conclusion is to be very picky during QC process and do not hesitate to reject when You see something wrong. Am I happy with this rep? Yes, I am. It is truly awesome piece, even with all these replication problems. Great wrist presence, feels light on a wrist, screams “this is tool watch” all the way. Another question: will I repurchase this rep when it will get released by Kuvarsit? The answer is: 95% for YES. The design of the watch is worth it to have it as immaculate as possible.

This Donerix horn back strap came in yesterday

Hmmm 6.666 days me thinks this is the devils work!!!!!

You've about got that one nailed!

It stopped at ~160h

Very nice... Approaching 8-day territory already... Sent from my SHV-E250S using Tapatalk 2

V5 mounted on v3 ss bracelet back in November 13'. Can't stop wearing it. Samsung Galaxy Note III

another great movement teardown review Rolexman! thanks for posting

372

Ohh, the strap is a strap I found in my strap drawrer. Don't know where I got it from. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Eyecandy:

I wish I could do this also. Only 7000km away from my home - and I love this city! I can't say much about the closeness of the 3717, but all I read about is that it is one of the closest reps in the market. The 3777 is nearly perfect out of the box as I think (if you don't get a crooked triangle). After installing a gen dial and a gen crown you can call it a Super-rep. A gen 79320 on top and even an AD could only check the serial and find out it's a rep. OK, then you payed round about 1500$ for the complete watch. But have a look at the price of the gen...

Good list, but I'd swap the Santos for a Tank, the Fifty Fathoms for a Sub, the Hublot for a Breitling Navitimer, and the Longines for a Seiko Astron. That's my all-time definitive list for the next 24 hours.

Got mine from Toro too, it was still running upon opening the box and it was in transit from China for six days. Great write up Rolexman, I was very curious to see how the movement was constructed and you did a great job of explaining it! Good to know someone can service the movement if it acts up too

This is interesting, the bad rate gain and loss of amplitude is due to the loss of torque as the spring unwinds, it is just one of those things we can attribute to phisics, maybe the gen does use some sort of torque converter, maybe the different size main springs have an effect. A fusee would compensate for the loss but that would have to be designed in from the start. I am assuming that this has a primary and secondary barrel, with the power to the train coming from one barrel and the secondary barrel feeding power to that rather than two barrels feeding at the same time (due to the high torque that would cause)

Considering that I'm a Saints fan, I would wear one that's waterproof, that's so your tears don't get inside and corrode the movement!! However considering how badly they have played on the road this year I doubt that they have another win in them. personally, since there are no Rolex models in the mix, I would vote for the AP Diver.

Rolex 36mm does look good on women. If your mom tried it, I think she would wear it alot. This is one of my favorites. Stunning in person, but not over the top. Ive sold dozens of these to women, not just this dial, but many variations. 99% use them for a daily beater. Months later, they tell me how much they love it

do some research first before posting .. your thread !! as you clearly don't know what your talking about on both points

I've worn both the divers a lot, and I really like the 372. When I buy new pieces I find myself wearing those more often and neglecting the older ones.

That looks amazing! Hmmmmmm, I think xvi is the way to go then, I will check it out, thank you!

Hi Guys, I want to show you my watch related birthday gift. Hublot Big Bang Evolution Rose Gold V6: More pictures will follow later.. Modalo Watch Winder, 8 winding places and 9 other slots: Oh and yes It's my 24th birthday

It's a great one to start with! It's a super rep and will fool all but the true enthusiasts, but with this list of mods, it's almost indistinguishable from the gen: Incabloc Y shape fix , Longer SN screw replaced , SN end side shape fixed , SN spring angle fix , Gold gear train brushed , Crown wheel & ratchet wheel replaced and polished yup, hand wound only - Platinum plated Asian UNITAS-6497-2 21600vph hand-winding movement

I just bought a V3 Noob 111 and the the latest version 005 H Factory. Case , Crystal , Crown & Crown Guard from Noob 111 V3 Dial , Case Back, Hands set and movement from H Factory I'm quite impressed about the Noob V3 111 Crystal had improved so much imho, the colorless and AR is very good even compare to Gen. Lets the photo speaks. Left: Gen , Right: Rep The thinner lever is Gen, Noob is a bit fatter. Case Back, my Gen 005 is N series Gen case back Swiss Made is well engraved, the rep H005 just a laser etched , but this is not important, because no one would open the case back , lol. Gen Movement Rep 005H movement

Edge’s Guide To Replica Forums Part II Who has the best……..??? This instalment in my guide to replica forums workbook is an attempt to alleviate the questions of “Who has the best………??” Such questions tend to anger the general populous and end up in members getting flamed. The very simplistic approach that many members take is what I like to call the “Seek and Ye Shall Find” Response: Usually consisting of comments of the order, “Jesus Noobie, use the Search function!!” or just “Search”, usually something of that kind. This is neither an answer to the question nor a flame, it is a directional repose to much maligned question. There is also the; “AAAAAHHHHHH, Jesus We HATE NOOBIES!! Response: Which I feel is pretty self explanatory, people will FLAME and flame hard if they find you asking a “who has the best??” question. Now for my approach, well you are reading it lol. I am writing this to try and educate the new members as to what is likely going to happen should you happen to ask this question. Please do not ask a who has the best question as they are not usually dealt with amicably. Now for the crux of this post. If you want to try and decide who has the best then you will have to research any updates to the information given in this post, as I will not be updating it regularly. Submariner – The modern Rolex Submariner Replicas have become VERY accurate. So much so that from the distance that someone’s wrist is away from you it is almost impossible to tell. There are different variations on the Submariner; With Date: 16610 – Base Stainless Steel Submariner 16610LV – Commonly known as the LV, 50th Anniversary Green Bezel Black Dial Variation of the Standard Stainless Steel Submariner, comes with a maxi dial, meaning that it has bigger indices. 16613 – Two Tone Yellow Gold/Stainless Steel Submariner 16618 - Solid Gold Submariner 18k Yellow Gold 1680 – Vintage Submariner, Standard Stainless Steel, but has Red Submariner Text instead of white (Red Line), many were later serviced by Rolex to have the Red Text replaced with white, so there are both red and white variations available. 16800 – Is a transitional submariner between the 1680 and it’s newer descendants. Please note that Genuine parts for the 1680, 16800 and 16610 are Generally NOT interchangeable, as they have different crystal variations. No Date: 5508, 5512, 5513, 5514, 5517, 6200, 6204, 6205, 6536, 6538, 6538A, 14060, 14060M Of note: 5512/5513 – First “superlative chronometer” Submariner’s Can come with standard submariner dial or with so called “Explorer dial” with 3,6 and 9 indices. Supremely rare and very sought after. 6536/6538 – The Much Adored so called “Bond Subs” these are the watches that were made famous by James Bond in the early Bond Films. Connery (Sir Sean to most of you) was a big fan of these watches and wore them in his Bond films. They lack Crown Guards and are also Very Rare and highly sought after. In general the Rolex submariner is the most sought after replica watch, as most of you who come here are originally looking for a Sub……Aren’t You?? It is from then that taste in other watches develops or is UNLEASHED lol, with a massive Panerai and Omega craze the buying never stops. The main differences between the Vintage and the Modern Submariners are the crystal type and also the pearl. The modern submariners that most of you know and worship have Sapphire Crystal and metal surround pearls. The pearl for those of you who don’t know is the bit of lume (white bit) at the 12 O’clock index on your bezel. In the vintage models this pearl is surrounded by acrylic and NOT metal as in the 1680, and the crystal is raised and called a “Tropic”, which protrudes greatly from the watch to give in my humble opinion a FANTASTIC look to the watch. Now to the dealers…….. Most of our dealers carry MANY variations on the submariner, including Date and No Date, Modern and Vintage. The main thing that you have to decide on is what variation that you want, Two Tone, Stainless Steel, Full Gold…..Blue, Black, Green…. The options are vast but you will decide on one. Then it is time to decide upon Who has the best?? There are in MY OPINION 3 different versions of this watch….. Asian, Swiss (ETA), and MBW. Asian – Most of the dealers will carry some subs in Asian movement variations, they usually run at about $100-130 and are aesthetically very accurate. The Crown Guards and Insert are generally not bad and the dial is acceptable. They generally have all of the same characteristics of the more expensive ETA models but with the cheaper movement. Asian movements are as far as I am concerned a gamble, completely hit or miss. Some people swear by them, some people swear at them. If you do choose to go with the Asian version you will have a very nice looking sub with a movement that usually works but is a touch unreliable, best to get it serviced quickly, as after a service it would appear that most of the issues are solved and they will run for a substantial amount of time. Swiss (ETA) – So Called Swiss movement which is in truth no more Swiss than fly in the air, however in replica terms an ETA is a Swiss movement. These are EXTREMELY reliable movements which are routinely used in Genuine watches, so reliability is much much higher. The cosmetics of the watch are ostensibly unchaned. Price is usually $200-220 There are now Josh’s perfect Sub and PT’s Ultimate sub, both of which claim to be as close to gen as possible, they have extremely nice crown guards and bezel inserts, and the general look of the watch is very close to the genuine. There have been some alignment issues with the Cyclops on the PT version, but that is easily fixed. These editions usually run for more as they are closer and generally thought to be very good quality almost that of MBW’s, they usually run at approx $280 MBW (Maria’s Best Watch)/WM (Watchmaster) – Now Maria was a dealer here who provided very High quality Rolex reps. This mantle has now been taken on by Luckyyy and George. MBW watches are widely regarded as the most accurate replicas available along with WM replicas these are the most sought after variations on the submariner. Watchmaster makes very similar watches to MBW and both are considered as good as it gets. They are cased 1:1 so the big benefit is that they accept Genuine Rolex Parts, and modifications are a common occurance. The bezel insert will readily accept a genuine pearl and they will take Genuine Inserts, and even crystals and suchlike. Be prepared to drop $360 on MBW watches and regularly prices for these are in Euros at approx €300. Who has the best??? This all depends on what you are looking for. The Asian versions are very good if you are looking for a watch that is pretty close in appearance and wont cost you too much money, they are generally pretty accurate and have had good review’s about value for money. They have reliability issues and are NOT as close as some of the other versions to genuine, but very good for the money, and good for those on a budget or wanting more watches. The Swiss Eta Versions are more reliable and generally slightly better made, IMHO. They have none of the reliability issues that the Asian versions have and are again pretty close to the genuine. They too have there problems including crown guards, bezel insert, pearl and dial, all of which will allow for it to be spotted on CLOSE inspection. Also the datemag is often not 2.5x on the Swis and Asian standard sub reps. PT/Josh versions are more accurate with better insert and far improved crown guards. They are more accurate but on occasion need the Cyclops aligned. The general appearance apart from these alterations is the same and they are basically slightly modded ETA versions. ETA versions are IMHO perfect for those who want an accurate watch that will keep on ticking for years, without ever really worrying about it’s small inaccuracies and without really wanting to mod it. MBW/WM versions are considered the crème of the crop especially as far as Vintage models go, they readily accept genuine parts and are more accurately cased. They too have pearl problems and also need croen guard work, and are of course more expensive. Perfect for the modder who wants to create his/her own Frankenwatch to suite his/her own tastes. These are the most expensive versions but are also the easiest to modify, some of them having as many genuine parts as replica. So….. Only you can decide who has the best version FOR YOU!!! There is not a set standard as some of you will be looking for the most accurate some of you will be looking for accuracy but with a budget, all sorts of things must be taken into consideration, and for that reason we do not have a standard BEST. What is important to you may not be important to someone else, and PLEASE PLEASE EVERYONE REMEMBER…….. THEY ARE STILL REPS…… No matter how good they look, someone will always be able to tell the difference, if they know what they are doing , and remember if anyone ever sees inside your watch it’ll be a dead giveaway so NEVER EVER TRY AND PASS A REP AS GEN. Never try and put it on a genuine watch website such as Timezone or suchlike as it’ll be outed within MINUTES, no matter how good you think it is it’s STILL A REP, and NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER try and sel your rep as a Gen. This is completely uncalled for and I will personally be over the moon should you get jail time. I hope this helps and please from now on don’t bother asking who has the best, whether it be subs, planet oceans or whatever you have to do the research on the different models and then MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND, what’s important to you?? Then decide on a watch, NOONE else knows what you want so we don’t have standard BEST editions, each to their own. A rep is a rep, and ALWAYS remember that. Who has the best sub??? Rolex so buy a Genuine if it bothers you that much!! I hope you have found this informational and also that it will make you realise that you CANNOT get an individual answer tyo a who has the best question it will always be personal preference. Enjoy Edge!