alligoat

I agree it's an el cheapo sub case, but a 5513 case like this one also from Paul. It's a 38mm case, CN dome acrylic crystal- slightly different than a T-19 or 39- I tried to switch crystals. But still a fun rep to play with and w/ an ETA, a very reliable watch. It'll never get by an expert, but how many experts do you run across?

I have a 2834-2 in my franken 16800. As freddy says, it should be a 29mm movement, but if the day feature isn't used, I think it may be possible to essentially make it a 25.6mm movement- the ring along the outside is removed along with the day feature. So it becomes something similar to a 2836. Mine originally came out of a C-omex Submariner- a Sub knock-off. Like so many things in the CN rep world, there's no real logic for what the Chinese do, I guess. Ironically, I have a Rolex Day-Date rep and they use a 2836, but move the day feature to the outside perimeter- why not just use a 2834-2? But they don't. BTW, my C-omex is about 3+ years old- or was. The case was made into another Sub and the movement went into the franken 16800, mainly because it had the older datewheel with the open 6's and 9's.

and serviceability. You might be able to get your watchmaker to clean and service an asian movement, but then again, you might have to shitcan it and start over.

BTW, Plan B would be to remove the caseback, remove the movement and dial, clean off the back of the crystal and the speck of dust and reinstall the movement and dial and put the caseback back on. This is a 5 minute chore. If you don't have a friendly watchmaker, it might be worth as much as $25. I would think that removing the movement and cleaning the spec of dust might be a safer alternative to replacing the crystal- sometimes watchmakers don't do well with reps and you never know when something might go amiss. KISS! Oh, that's an old army term here in the US- Keep It Simple Stupid.

The DRSD from Paul was one of my first reps- actually the second one, but the first after I found the old RWG1 three years ago. This watch actually has a working HE valve which is a pretty damn good copy of the original Rolex HEV. It came w/ an ETA movement back then- might be a copy ETA these days, the dial markers are a little too yellow for my taste, but the bracelet is a nice hollow mid-link 93150 with 580 rep end pieces. The clasp is that unusual variation, but I swapped out another standard flip-lock clasp. This watch is slightly smaller than the MBW 1665 so it won't take a gen bezel insert or crystal, but I put in a vintage acrylic pearl, so the bezel insert looks pretty good. I trimmed the cg's, drilled the lugholes, but I don't wear the watch anymore because DRSD's are so rare. I paid $139 for this watch back in 2005! Now days the ETA movement with the silver datewheel overlay is probably worth what I paid for the whole watch Paul also has this watch in the GWSD- "Great White Sea-Dweller". The great white would be a little more subtle, should you run into a WIS. I would consider these good entry level watches- fun to play with and mod- great beaters at a fair price. I stole the 93150 bracelet off this watch and put it on my 16800 franken with a set of 593 end pieces- it's so hard to find nice hollow mid-link rep bands!

When I removed my Euromariner bezel this weekend, the crystal came off with it! I then pressed the crystal down and off of the bezel assembly. The bottom gasket was still attached to the crystal. I then dug the top gasket out of the bezel assembly- it's thinner than the bottom gasket. Frank's pics look exactly like what I encountered. I then put the Clark's crystal on the case, the gasket was already on the crystal. I was going to put it on with the crystal press, but in lining it up, it snapped right on with a little bit of thumb pressure! Then, after removing the top gasket from the bezel assembly- dug it out w/ a small screwdriver- I tried to get the bezel assembly apart, but never could. There's top and bottom inside rings, the click spring and the outer bezel ring. Rather than tear it up getting the parts apart, I simply pressed the whole assembly back on the watch case with the crystal press. I do think the inside top ring might sit a little too high for properly installing the bezel insert, but I haven't got that far. Next, I have to enlarge the lugholes- typical MBW- they're to small, and trim the crown guards. Then I'll get squared away with my dial and hands and finally install the bezel insert.

The Euro has taken a hit lately against the US dollar- something like 1.2657 USD to the Euro as of Friday. But the other thing to keep in mind is that retail outlets are going to be 10-40% more than buying from a place like ebay. But whenever you buy on ebay, you have to know the seller and I always figure a few hundred dollars extra for servicing. Watches are also more expensive in the EU than in the US, but don't ask me why. Hopefully when you buy from a retail outlet, the watch has been recently serviced and you get the peace of mind of actually being able to see the watch and know that you aren't being ripped off. Luckily, I've never been ripped off buying a watch on ebay, but I always stay away from questionable sellers.

16800 is the predecessor to the 168000. The 16800 was the first sub with the sapphire crystal, 300m/1000ft designation and the quickset 3035 movement. The 168000 had a short run around 87-88- same 3035 movement but with the new 904L case and bracelet. Then in 88 the 16610 came out with the 3135 movement and 904L steel case and bracelet. Ironically, all three were available around 1988 with the R serial# designation. The 16800 with the matte dial is probably the most collectible/valuable of those three subs at this point in time- but of course, it is also the earliest. Here's a picture of a gen 16800 with matte dial on the left and a 16800 franken on the right.

2843? I've never heard of that movement. First there was the DG2813 and then the DG4813 with the 28,800 bph. Anyway, hand size for those is typically 100/150/17, so you would need a 17 seconds hand. These hands are not readily available around here, unfortunately. Good luck.

Very nice job, Freddy. You did a great job 'aging' the Clark hands to match the dial. And a 702 crown w/ tube is quite a find. Those tubes are hard to come by. Would a 93150 with 580 end pieces be correct for this watch?

That side by side shot shows how the PT sub looks just slightly larger than the noob. That's what makes the PT/WM9/Euro subs so cool- they finally got the size right. As good as the noob is, it's just slightly smaller than the gen (especially in the bezel/insert construction) and it is noticeable in a side by side comparison. Congrats on the new PT sub.

Did you email Jay?

Font on the 16610 bezel has changed over the years. The older font had a more 'boxy' 4. Then around 2005-6, about the time of the noobmariner's debut, Rolex changed the font on the insert and the most noticable difference was the 'triangular' 4. Look at the inside of the 4- triangular- most recent, boxy= earlier. So you've got new and older Rolex inserts. Depending on your rep, you have to choose the correct font. Both Helfand's and Wholesaleoutlet's look like the newer font. A WM pearl will help out either, although the Helfands isn't too bad by itself. Jewelryoutlet, I believe has the older font on its insert- it's a sister company to wholesaleoutlet.

Just thinking out loud... 1. Take this case $600 2. Install a 2892-A2 w/ a stilty spacer ring $300 3. Gen bezel insert $75 4. Gen crown (and tube?) $ 50-100 5. gen dial w/ good lume and a set of well lumed hands $150-200 6. Good quality bracelet ? Well, you're over $1200, but maybe under $1500. Sure, you've got the elusive 'correct' crown position, but you're definitely paying a premium. With a MBW 93150 and 501B end pieces, you'd have a nice early 16610- a relumed tritium dial would make it a great franken.

Have you tried Jay over at Silix-Prime? http://www.silix-prime.com/product.asp?id=1388 It says not available, but I find that hard to believe. Maybe Ruby could find one for you.

Sub crystal is 25-295-C2. C2 is the gasket, as opposed to C1 like for a DJ. To install the crystal, you need a crystal press- like the one Harbor Freight sells for $15-20. It ain't that hard to do, but it might be best if you watch someone else do it the first time. Clark's sells the crystals for $23- about the best deal around.

It used to be that you could get the datewheel overlay from Cubic-Works.com over in Hong Kong- the correct one for the circa 1980 DJ with the open 6's and 9's, but now they send the latest one with the closed 6's and 9's. MBW 1680's and 1665's have the open 6's and 9's w/ the round top 3's which aren't really correct for the original 1575 movement but would be great for the 16014/16013- but then your red sub or DRSD would be w/o a datewheel! Some of the cheap CN movements have the open 6's and 9's on their DW- may or may not work.

It appears to me to be a 16610 dial- says 'Swiss Made' at the bottom. The later 16800 and early 16610 dials are the same with the white gold surrounds and the tritium lume, denoted by Swiss- T<25. Tritium went out around 1999, followed by luminova for a very short time and then superluminova. The case back does say 16800 on the inside and appears to be very deep- unusually so??

I'd agree that generally the open 6's and 9's went out with the 3035 movement. But as is the case with Rolex, there are discrepancies. I saw an early R serial 16610 w/ the open 6's and 9's the other day. Closed 6's and 9's on a 16014 doesn't surprise me either. I have an old 1966 1500 Date with closed 6's and 9's and round top 3's- not your typical date wheel for a 1575 movement, but I have no reason to be suspicious of it- everything else is original. Rolex just isn't always consistent.

The cases for the 3035 and 3135 are not the same. Rehaut on the 16800 (3035) is much shallower than the 16610 case- there just ain't no swapping- it's one or the other. This looks to be a 16610 case, and the crown position appears to be higher which is correct for the 3135 movement. Sean w/ etaswiss used to be around 3-5 years ago, but he doesn't frequent RWG or RWI. If you could put a 2824-2 or 2892-2 in there, it could be a very nice rep, but as chefcook says- ditch the crappy pearl! I've always maintained that a 2824-2 should work fine in a 16610 case- just like it does in a 16200 DJ case.

I'd certainly agree with Perry that the two best no date Subs are the MBW 5512 and 5513. ShawnBeever has added a gen insert to his 5512 and it looks pretty darn good. The 14060's aren't really that good as far as reps go, but if it doesn't bother you, you could always go with one of those w/ an ETA for a little more than a couple of hundred dollars. Taking the date cyclops off a 16610- well, that would be up to you. Personally, I'd just buy an SSD V2- it ain't perfect either, but don't forget, "A rep is only a rep."

That's the problem w/ asian movements and hands- they're hard to find- you almost have to sacrifice another cheap asian watch to get a set of hands. Borel lists the DG2813 hands as 100/152/17. Other movements have different sizes. First, you have to identify the movement and then figure out the sizes and go from there. Could be alot of trial and error and it might just be cheaper to buy a whole nother watch and go from there- chalk it up to experience.

Given that it's an early ETA, servicing the movement should not be a big deal. Any competent watchmaker should be able to do it. It should run $100-150 for a clean and service, I would think. I wouldn't even mention anything else about the case, etc. I'd look at it just like our other reps w/ ETA's- having to service one just goes w/ the territory. Even adding in the cost of a service, it's still a great deal and then you should be good to go for another 5 years.

Rep steel is 316L which is what Rolex use to use up until the late 80's when they went to 904L. Weight is fine also and not really an issue.

Ha! B-T, the dial is an RSC replacement dial- just think of it that way.