lanikai

sssurfer... if the answer to the DW's is yes they do interchange with the other PR's with the so called "same" movement ... but we cannot get the specs ... would one date wheel suffice as a sample to find the correct spares???

Chief.... How I interpret it is that there are many factories in China and because of the business (Reps. I will use this Euphamism) ... factories (however big that means)... may have to relocate .... often... if the wheels aren't greased often... or people that were running them are now somewhere else... in our terms "factory" sounds like a permanent building ... with China being what it is internally I am sure these "factories" aren't publicly known with a sign out front. So with that said ... if someone were to say that it is not a "seagull" that may mean a number of things... seagull has gone way underground ...... they are calling themselves something else ... or a variety of aliases .... it may be an improvement over the original... remember Japan was known for copying and improving... now Sony ... well I am assuming you have been on the Planet long enough to know how that story goes... Trying to get more info... be back later

OK sssurfer ... i can try ... but I don't know how much information the powers that be will give out ... but I will give it a shot... Kudo's go to the Almighty .. I just do the footwork...

A senior dealer was asked about this movement ... and replyed that it "is" a special movement from China... more functionality than the asian 21 J ... I will try to get more info so the experts here can decipher it ... although he said it is not from the seagull factory... there may be many smaller factories branching off now..(again..my interpretation0 I don't really know... sssufer you were positively correct in your hypothesis ... although it was stated that this is not the segull movement but one that has the functions ...i maybe wrong on my interpretation ... if I am ... "my bad" but i hope this can help a little

So the question is...... if someone else were to enjoy this fine materpiece of Horology; what would it take for that enjoyment?????

sssurfer .... i checked the dealers site again ... the only thing close is the 2892-2movement, it goes for 588 usd on andrews site th PR is at the 6 the rest claim to be the A21 J..

sssurfer .... you know vastly more than I about movements ..... and you may have answered something that has been on my mind with the 090 ... you know how the asian movement when winding feels.. "hollow" and the gears feel really cheap and dry ? the 090 movement feels like that of the higher quality movements... I may be totally wrong .. but I thought maybe they sent me the wrong watch ... (movement wise), I paid 188 usd for the 090.. and you are probably correct ... as far as it not being a A 21 J..... I have alway's thought that if a dealer were not reputable and I believe mine to be .... what is to stop them from getting over on people with no knowledge of these movements ... although the Asian 21 J is the lower end ... My 090 does not have a display back ... solid back .. i got it from Andrew ... and all these watches come from the same maker to the 4 top dealers ... Joshua, Andrew, King and Angus.. No sense in asking the dealers ... I don't want to open a can of worms ... you and the rest of the experts will have to let us know what you hypotesis ... I have to leave the ball in your court ... I was going to order the 124 myself if this can come to fruition..

Let me amend that sssurfer .... i never want to spend top dollar on a movement with a date wheel unless the date wheel is available first .. in this case after checking,... the movement you are reffering to is no longer available .. so if you have any leads for me I would appreciate it. Thank you ....Lanikai

Sssurfer..... it si not poor english because I cannot speak anyother language so you are far ahesd of me on that score ... but the 21J Asian is the only movement availble for the 090 and 222 .... from Joshua and Andrew .. if I know where to obtain the other I would ... any leads??? and yes I would spend an additional 50 usd for the proper wheel the only reason I have the lesser movement is because that is all that's available ...

Are you serious .... this is one of my favorite PAMS... i only dreamed of looking at a proper DW ... so sssurfer i without a doubt will be "DOWN" for 3 or 4 ... since you are talking about the Asian 21 J movement? maybe more and are you saying that you need "1" date wheel from a movement as a smaple to get the right one .. or will everyone have to send in their DW's with their order? This part I need clarified please ... Thank you LANIKAI..... drooling in anticipation

I am far from being an expert in anything let alone PVD ... but this is loookkkiiiing goooooooooood DT... darth Vader would be proud to wear this pc. I'm wating for a TI case to come back from plating don't want it too Black though ,I stilll want to see the brushed ti a little ... even though it might not be to specs.. LIVE STRONG AND WEAR IT WELL.... thanks for the great pics

I agree 110 % ...... the low end stuff will sell with or without the correct markings etc. .... maybe they really need a defining line between highend movements and reps. that are not "junk" but just plain ..... inexpensive .... the makers would have the best of both worlds...

CT .... you nailed it .................. let's see it...

Wow the way you describe it ... makes my mouth water...........

The 2893 has been discontinued .. so they must be gearing up for something to replace it .. i think the evolution of the Rep. industry is changing again.. look at 3 years or even 1 year ago ... I do believe ... all the different "makers" of the Reps will "have" to follow suit or be left behind in the dust .. and it is probably due in large to all you verteran members making the reps "better" by this forum and your mods and fabricating DW"s etc.

Hey SSSurfer .. i figured it would be old news to you and CT and Watchmeister and all the other too numerous to mention VIP members But as you .. all i could verify were "Rumors" .. so I asked a senior Dealer who affects alot in the Rep. industry ... this is why he did not announce the 252 ... because it was supposed to be ready in Apil and it was delayed .. so time frame for that to all dealers is about 1 month. But I wouldn't announce it then have a last minute dealy ... so "about" 1 month could mean anything..but confidence is high it will be out. As far as price .. i am guessing on this ; to use the 199 and the 092 as a gauge as far as price difference from the older model.. i am hoping they just plan to sell more watches ..Factory expects the dealers to move them ... as i say, i am not paying for a "rep" at these prices .. i am paying for a "watch"..... I do not want to "speak" for any Dealer ... but "I" would assume that the different makers of the watches .. and Movements would want to follow suit or be left behind ... either keep up or get run over ... their goal is to move their product ... why i say this is the semantics could be different in different languages so if i am told "all" autos i would not take it literally ... but one can only hope right? As i say i am not a spokesperson for anyone .. but i like to go to the source and find out if "talk" is just rumors or if there is some validity to it ... does it have any "TEETH" As factual information becomes available i will surely pass it on once it is verified as factual....

From a senior dealer ... who shall remain anonymous (initial J) ..... All auto movmt's. are going to be due for upgrade ... ( Mag and Font) 252 GMT was supposed to be available to all dealers in April... will come out in about a month simultaneously to all dealers.. RE: technical solutions to the DW ... etc. PAM 104 was mentioned .... someone mentioned it in a thread a couple day's ago.. It will be done one at a time ... as to time frame??????? the Makers need time obviously to get things right .. but it was said to be probably one watch at a time even if it is the same movement ... but who know ... that could change .... the order of the upgrades (model number) is not known to me ... So I guess I may as well hold on ... i was going to pull the trigger on the 104 ... but was advised to wait after I inquired about the upgrade.. Told the Anonymous Senior Dealer ... (initial J.) that i would post this ... personally I would feel bad buying a watch ... then a month later have the watch be upgraded.. LIVE STRONG ... alway's be on time ... LOL...

Hey Jumbie .. ordered my strap from Strap Culture... hope it fits.. the holes will not be in the same structure as the 125/80 ... the holes are offset when you put the different sizes side by side did not know that straps could get so technical until i started collecting them.. yeah the bone croc is Mui Macho ... but again TC only has it in 115/75 .. but the hide is softer than alligator so it could work .. i just would have to loose the keeper ..

Joshua and Andrew have just the deployment .. i have one but you have to replace a pin that i broke off .. should not be too hard .. it is brushedand for a 24/22 mm it's yours if you want it ... rather give it to someone than have it collect dust .. it has Panerai on the clasp...let me know.. pm me .. it's as genuine as the reps are...lol... if you cn find a way to oxidize it you can match the ti case...

CT ...amend the TC .. it wears smaller than it's size.. I do not think you will be happy with the BOB.... better to spend it on something of high quality..after all the $ i spent on inexpensive aligator i could have gotten a PAM check out Elliot first.. if you don't mind 24/22 he has that in the 125/80 mm..the black looks better than the Honey Brown though .. with straps if you substitute size you may be sorry the holes are not the same even though the strap is longer.. and the 24/22 fits more like it's actual size Panerai is more on the dark brown Elliot has a nice Bone Croc now ... all alligator comes from louisiana but the grades are different.. same as leather hides Lani

BOB straps has a alligator in Aubergine ... (dark brownish with a little red tint).. that is about 5 mm thick .. it's so thick you can almost wear it loose like a bracelet ..(would send a pic but my memory card needs replacing) .. put it this way you get what you pay for... it's not bad for the price ... But if you are in the US on the west coast or a major port city by law all reptilian straps coming in from overseas need a CITES certificate ... endangered animals etc. etc... and the certificate has to have your name and that you are the recipient of this strap ... sender has to get it from his or her govenment agency ... much hassle ... my point is that if you order it from overseas .... it's the roll of the dice ... if it is confinscated you won't see it again ... (don't ask how i know all this .. kinda obvious) .. you will recieve a letter from the fish and game feds... stay away from ebay watch boys alligator.. although the pics look good they are paper thin ... and not as good looking as the pics ... ask me how i know ... i just got a 24/22 deployment alligator in today after waiting 2 weeks and 10 usd (for priority mail) ... shipped from Canada .. stay away from banda ... definately will be opened by customs and quality sucks... don't be tempted to order their elephant ... you will be in BIG TROUBLE ... no i did not order any reptile straps from them ... i'm not " Stuck on Dumb" i think it really bad Kharma to wear elephant .. and customs thinks so too ... trust me on that one Elliot at TC straps has a pretty good alligator and croc ... the alligator wears smaller than it's size ..RE: the upper lug portion of the strap is very padded and stiff .. plus it is 24/24 ... which adds girth to the strap ... he also has 24/22 which wears normally .. problem is he has the alligator 24/24 only in 115/75 .. i have to take off the keeper (second band) because it wears small and i am a 125/80 anyway ... but when he has it on special it goes for about 79 to 99 usd.. good price for that band regular price is 159 usd. The genuine Panerai alligator strap goes for about 250 usd .. and i am tempted to get one .. the quality is Superb and it will probably outlast any rep i have hope my little distertation has answered a small part of your query ... anyone know alligator hunters in Louisiana... moral of the story .. with alligator bands ..you get what you pay for ... or you can buy a alligator "grain" strap Aloha and good hunting Lanikai

thanks CT..Lani

hey, the Kevlar definately for the PVD .. and the Bracelet has too mch shine and takes away from the case .. i'm just concerned about the size .. i mailed them to check ..I take a 125/80 on the MP's but if the leather is stiffer on the SC's then it may work... as long as i stay teachable i think i will be ok.. thanks again Jumbie

thanks Jumbie ... i think i will be ordering something today from SC ...LOL... i like thier Double Hatchet ... but i wear a 125/80 and their 24/24 is a bit bigger ... if it is a stiffer leather it may work can't seem to access strap works no worries i take responsibility for my own actions even if I'm following a lead ... getting into a strap fetish now as far as hand made .... for all i care sherpas could make them with their teeth if it looks good... Lani can't seem to access strap works ..