namor

I can just tell you my story, sad that others are not as detailed... Joshua agreed to take the watch back, I shipped it like he said I should - it's on the way now. After shipping I wrote him a mail with the tracking nr. and asked for a refund incl. both shipping costs. Now I'm waiting till he receives the watch... I hope it comes through customs - I am no dealer and surely can't take the customs/shipping loss. As I said many times before - I will update you how the story ends. You'll nowhere in my posts find a bad word about Joshua, but this whole false description thing REALLY makes me angry ! I am really shocked of the fact how many members absolutely accept this. Again, just to clear it up (TTK is right - some people sometimes just don't get it, whatever you try...) in simple words: - We are not buying from Bestswiss.com ! - Superlume should be Superlume (for example it really WAS good at some "Ultimate" Fiddy models..!) - Asian movement is Asian (Why not ? Ziggy has written some REALLY good reviews about them !) - ETA should be ETA - Mixed movement should be mixed movement - Sapphire should be sapphire More simple: The description should be true. I don't say that Andrew and Joshua are bad Dealers - but after my own experience I fully agree that they knowingly described this specific watch (B&R) different than the facts are. I am now waiting to resolve this - if this fails I will write a review about it and JUST THEN I can and will think about calling someone "bad Dealer"... Everything still can turn out good - and I believe it will.

Whew - how Dollarious is a Dollar ? I sent you Dollars ! Currently they're 4 different versions of Dollar here in Rep-Buyers-World. The real Dollars are quite expensive and for the members of EU hard to find ! You have to order them from your Bank and wait a few days... So we sent you "Copy-Dollars" ! They're the same size, have the same color and in a shady bar given to a drunk they even function like the real Dollar !!! (In fact that's more similarities than this Copy-Movement has with a 2892..!) So if you're disappointed now - we will tell you that these are Copy-Dollars, but will continue to pay you with them... Hey - how valuable is a Dollar ? How not valuable is consider a lie ? Just to make this clear again, I don't want to people think I've not done my homework if they just read this statement and not my original Post. I asked per mail - and was told something that clearly was not the fact !

Forgot to say: I will of course update you about the refund...

You are absolutely right when you say you have to ask questions - and so I did ! But, and now comes the tricky point, I didn't know that I have to ask every Detail of a watch even if it is described very well ??? Where's the difference to the good ol' Photobuckets then ? Does this mean I have to ask if a fiddy is described as "SuperLumed, Sapphire, Swiss 6497" if it has SuperLume-Dial, Sapphire and Swiss 6497 ??? This must be a joke ! Stuff like this NEVER happened to me before ! Trustys quote about his initial description was not 100% right: it wasn't just described as Superlume-Dial (where I would expect a really good Lume too !) NO, it was decribed as "SuperLume applied to Dial and Needle" ! So here is where your opinion about a "super" lume is NOT of interest anymore. If it is stated clearly that "Superlume" was applied, it should be applied. And the Lume was not good as again stated by Andrew - it was really worse. I bought my B&R from Joshua - his description did NOT include the Term "Superlume" (but he added later !), therefore I asked him especially if it is the same as Andrews WITH Superlume - he said yes - I ordered ! This simple. If you need to confirm the facts written in the description - what do we need this Webshops ? Back to the Photobuckets and if you like anything, write a huge mail with detailed questions ("is the brushing at the lugs of your Submariner REALLY 45° ?"). I asked Joshua about a Detail which was not in his description - got an answer and ordered. BTW: glad you like your FM-2892 ! Mmh, yeah - I didn't ask about the Movement, but the Superlume - and the answer I got was obviously not correct, therefore I sent the Watch back and I am waiting for a refund (including both shipping costs as it was NOT my fault!). You don't need to see such a mail because it's in a possible price-range. See kruzers post about Ziggy confirming him his FM-2892 was 100% ETA ? The watch is in this price-range you mentioned. I also have an Omega AT with ETA-2892 too. Same price-range and was confirmed by my watchmaker too. Usual prices you see at Ofrei are not applicable to China... You get a Pam 196 with A/R, Sapphire, S/S-Bracelet AND Swiss-ETA-7753 for about 700,- USD. For this price you'll have a hard time finding a comparable nice watch from ANY manufacturer... Just to mention another Experience: I wanted to order an "Ultimate" Fiddy from Silix - they immediately replied to my order stating that the current batch has problems with the movement and the crystals are not yet confirmed to be real sapphire. This is honesty. I told them at this point that I'm currently not interested in any other watch - so they get no order from me for now. "No Problem, you're welcome" was the reply...

Please don't get offended - but this is really a description of how to NOT do this job...!!! Believe me, you always need the right tools. If you don't have - give it to a Rep-Friendly watchsmith. Most of them even will do this for free as it is done within a minute...

Hope that has not really happened...

Oooh, that's soo easy guys - and nobody checked it... Girls, no matter which age are experts in style ! Therefore give her an Submariner LV ! She will immediately realize that it suits perfect to her green Dress and hand out your Pam back to you... Next time ask me directly...

Fully agree - that's my thought. But unfortunately this IS my problem as when the Watch doesn't arrive - I fear that I will see no money at all AND will have lost the watch... So this would mean I didn't lose the least cash possible - it would mean I would have lost the most cash possible. However, it will be shipped today - let's just see how it works out finally. My thoughts were just hypothetical and I wanted to hear your opinions - perhaps there'll be no problems at all and I get a refund incl. shipping costs ???

Will speak volumes ? Seems to me it already does. I'm currently in a process to resolve an issue (With the "famous" Bell&Ross watch) and will update you all when I know how it works out. It's good that the Dealer is working with me an offered a solution - but I'm curious how it works out at the end. Whatever you do to clear such an issue, you always will have additional costs and lose time (send back, loss in currency exchange, loss in time for packaging/sending). Normally I'm absolutely NOT picky about these things, I made lots of deals with members and dealers on the boards - everything went absolutely smooth - and if we had any problems, we always worked it out with the same smoothness for both parties. But in this case it's a little different, I especially asked BEFORE buying about the described features of this watch and made clear that I want it BECAUSE of this features. My questions were answered positive - and I ordered. So what do you think ? Do I have to carry the additional costs I had in this special case ? I think it would be fair to have them refunded too. I even think that I don't want to agree to share these costs - why should I ? I ordered a Cheese-Cake and got a slice of bread. (Little exageration to provoke a smile in this bad situation... )

Yes, you're right of course - and even if there's something wrong, the Dealers should work with us to resolve it. The Dealer whom I bought from the Bell&Ross first tried to convince me with these words: "It's 28'800 BPH and 21 Jewels, you can check that !" Maybe, but it's no ETA-2892 and no 2892-Copy-Movement, so as long it has the same BPH and number of Jewels you can call a movement ANYHOW you want to ! That's ridiculous ! Really really, stay away from this ! I have no clue what the big difference should be between the cheaper Asian and the "2892"-Version... Yeah, I checked both sites too - still the same Description...

We already ARE affected ! It started with mixing Swiss and Asian parts together to build movements, then the chinese established some own movements based on swiss movement designs. Meanwhile they're replicating the whole movements including ETA hallmarks... So impossible to know where your movement came from originally, if it is mixed parts movement or completely Asian. Ok, that's a little bit exagerated - but just a little bit - we HAVE a clue what we get because experienced members like Ziggyzumba examine the movements and can tell mostly how they're made and build together. But I'm sure ETA movements will disappear sooner than some of us expect - the question is: will we realize it immediately ?

You're right my friend - but I think there are differences. 2 Possibilities: 1.) Mislabeling of Products using "Rep-Language" (for example calling asian or partially asian movements Swiss ETA). 2.) Dealers *possibly* being cheated theirselfs by their suppliers/dropshippers. (For example the sapphire issue with the 47mm PAMs a while ago - delivering the watches with mineral-crystal...) Nobody get me wrong please - both are bad cause they harm us, I just would be cautious calling our dealers scammers...

Like I mentioned before, I bought one these Bell&Ross watches too - don't need to be specific from whom as right now there are just 2 Dealers offering them with the mentioned description. The Dealer I bought from tried to convince me at first when I complained about the missing/wrong features (Superlume and ETA-2892). After mailing him back that this really is no behaviour and pointing him to this Thread where the Bell&Ross is discussed over some pages including Pictures - he is willing to work with me to get this resolved. I will update you all after finding a solution. Till we know better my advice is: STAY AWAY FROM THE B&R ! (Don't mean to shout in a rude way...)

Yes, you would need new Date- and Daywheels anyway - so this would be nothing unusual. I will check the measurements of this movement when I have time, perhaps it will need a new spacer-ring and a new movement holder...

Well, friends - here just a "copy'n'paste" of what I've written about my newest watch, a Bell&Ross: This is the best example of the difference between the advertisement and the final product you receive. By the way: something like this NEVER happened to me before - I'm one of the guys who are not so picky about the "Dealer-Language" and mixed or copied movements. But getting something COMPLETELY different and then even trying to convince you with the beat-rate and the number of jewels..? That's like buying a Mercedes and finding a hyundai engine in it. When you complain to the dealer he just says: "hey man, whats your Problem ? This is a 4-Cylinder Engine - you can check that !"

Yeah, really nice watch - an "eye-catcher" on your wrist. I have bought this one too - and I am very disappointed... The watch is advertised to have ETA-2892 movement and Super Luminova applied to the Dial and markers. Well, the Lume is just standard - far far away from SL ! It dosn't even glow as bright as SL when looking at it **immediately** after charging it. And after 20 seconds it's as low as we all know it from our other reps... Movement ? Well, that's the next joke. Like Finepics said (and he showed some quick pictures of the movement in another Thread) the movement is very very crappy and nowhere near an ETA-2892 and nowhere near a 2892-Copy !!! An example for 2892-Copy-movements is FM-2892 and Omega AT 2892 just look through the pictures of our Dealers to see how they should look like. By the way: the rotor of this movement is loud and the winding (IF you wind it manually) feels crappy. But now comes the hardest disappointment for me: I contacted the Dealer about this, his comment: I can replace you the watch but you'll get one with the same movement. It's 28'800 bph and 21J - you can test that... Well, so we are in a completely new situation meanwhile... It was ok to get copy-movements, mixed-movements, pay sapphire and get mineral (you remember this issue with the 47mm panerais ?). But now - we have to accept to buy (and pay premium!) for a 2892 movement (let's not care about ETA or Copy...) and then receive ANYTHING that has the same beat-rate and jewels ??? I'm really really unhappy about this and will continue trying to resolve this with the dealer...

Thank you my friend - yeah, you know the virus ! Always trying, building, searching...

Ah, forgot to say: The movement is stamped: AS OZ 1882/83 1885

Hi, I found and bought this nice piece: Any Idea if this nice and clean movement can be re-used for a Project ?

By the way: if anyone has an Idea where it *possibly* came from (It's confirmed that this watch is -at least- 10 years old !!!) or for what project this movement can be used or what the value is/can be, please let me know ! It's a real collectors piece for rep-lovers - but in my collection there are always just watches which get wristtime regularly...

What about this: ETA 2824 with Dubois Dépraz Module, Tricompax-Chrono with running secs at 3... This is build in a Daytona-Rep more than 10 years old which I own - I never found out where it came from originally, this is not the kind of stuff the asians used to produce 10 years ago... Pictures:

kruzer00: I'm sure you're absolutely right - I said the same about the 127, 217, MM20 and similar 47mm models some times ago - unfortunately I had the possibility to put some on borrowed from a friend of mine. Well, yeah - now I own several of them, they're just lovely little monsters...

If you're careful and take your time it's absolutely possible to remove the cyclops without damage - but I don't know your skills, therefore this is your decision. Another point: I often realise that I dislike some details on watches and/or complete models at first sight, later on this changes sometimes - perhaps because I get more and more used to the look or whatever. As you pointed out the watch would be inaccurate without the cyclops, but you wrote also that this would be no Problem for you. I just would suggest that you wear the GMT as it is for a while and observe if the look grows on you, if not you can remove it anyway...

Good to hear, congrats pal !

Biggest flaw on both: they are a little bit ugly... Sorry my friend, I have no Idea whats wrong on these because they never caught my attention.