gioarmani

Now that would be interesting.

Possibly--he was informed of my write-up to avoid liabilities, and had no problem with it. Besides, I said he had been employed there, not "is currently"...

And the results of the DSSD water test are.... http://www.rwg.cc/members/Good-news-DSSD-t...-so-t94577.html

Ok, so I took my newly modded DSSD V3 to my trusted smithy today and had it tested in the ol' Bergeon. Long story short, she tested solid to 5 ATMs. As I wanted to see exactly how far I really could push this model (past the 2000 psi strength epoxy, past the rep two-piece caseback, past the rep's supposed triple-lock crown system, and the ring-lock system, etc...) I decided to head over to my AD. *gasp* Now, i know, this may sound like a ridiculous move at first--but keep in mind a long-standing friend of mine has been store manager at both the Mayors, and Bailey, Banks & Biddle ADs, and is quite familiar with the world of "super" reps (as he owns a few of these "novelties" himself )--and it was the only place I knew of with equipment reliable enough to go up to 10 ATMs. (no worries of exposing any sort-of unheard of developments in the rep-world to the wrong parties). Anyway, this was one of the $5,000 electronic/vacuum operated machines that tests a hell of a lot further than your average $600 Bergeon could ever dream of. For posterity's sake, we ran it through the works--twice--and not so much as a hiccup, as it cleared a flawless test to a depth of 10 ATMs--twice. All in all, after the mods shown here...: http://www.rwg.cc/members/To-Moddifying-Rolex-D-t94391.html ...this watch tested to a minimum of 330 feet below sea level. And even though I don't know of anyone with a machine (on premise) that goes beyond 10 ATMs, I seriously think this rep--after mods--could easily go further than 330 ft. (To extrapolate, the marine epoxy I used is guaranteed to withstand 2000psi of pressure, and each ATM is aprox 14 psi. So is this stuff really good to 2000 psi, or 142 ATMs, or 4600 feet?...hmmm...) In other words, one ATM (equivalent to the surface pressure at sea level, achieved by simply sticking your arm in the pool) is equal to approximately 14 pounds per square inch, and that the pressure changes for "atmospheres" (ATM) that occur at an intervals of 1 ATM of change per every additional 33 ft of depth. So, at a depth of 33 feet, the pressure exerted on us is that of 1 ATM, PLUS the 1 ATM already present at the surface, for a total of two ATMs. At 66 feet, we're under that surface ATM, plus another 2 for a total of 3 ATMs, and so on. If I'm remembering correctly, essentially, "air" pressure decreases with altitude and "water" pressure increases with depth--like the principle behind a barometer with varying height, I guess. Because water is denser than air, the pressure increases more rapidly as you descend. To understand the reason why it's important to know the difference between air & water pressure is that air's volume in a certain space is reduced proportionate to the water pressure surrounding it. At 2 ATMs the volume of air is halved, even though the density is doubled. At 3 ATMs the air is at a third of surface volume, and so on. At 2 ATMs the volume of air is halved, but the density is doubled, at 3 ATM it is tripled, because the waterr pressure is tripled as well. Understand? In other words, the air within a confined space will expand proportionally as pressure is reduced. For example, moving from 2 ATM to 1 ATM (from 66 to 33 feet, or even from 33 feet to the surface), the air in a closed container will double. This is why it's necessarily not the submersion (the dive) that will kill you, it's the surfacing that will. Basically, the deeper you go, the greater the water pressure on the timepiece and the greater pressure on the air trapped inside. It is this very difference in volume & density that makes the air want to expand & escape (thus letting air out while letting water in) or, worst case scenario, causes the crystal to explode from the watch, destroying it. This is why past 600 feet, your skull will implode, and not explode. Illustrated on the atmosphere-to-psi calculator here...: http://www.lenntech.com/unit-conversion-ca...or/pressure.htm ...the pressure exerted on this DSSD at 10 ATMs, or 330 ft, was approximately 147 pounds of pressure per square inch. I scuba dive--but not to these sorts of depths--and considering without a proper diving bell, the human head implodes at 600+ feet... So, I guess the real puzzle left to solve is if this epoxy really will hold 2000 psi, does anyone know where the hell I can have it tested?

FYI, the marine epoxy I used was rated water-proof and could withstand 2000psi of pressure, so I'm going to get it water-proof tested today. We'll see how deep it tests; wish me luck...

Yes.

To all my PM'ers, this piece is the latest "best" from Andrew @ Trustytime.

A heat-dried enamel should be permanent. I've already hit this thing with cloth, soap & water, and windex (ammonia) multiple times and no sign of any wear whatsoever.

The date-wheel doesn't come in direct contact with the underside of the dial, so unless I sprayed too thickly, at worst I would have just gotten a scant, inconsequential bit on the date-wheel at 21. Even though the spray isn't quite as tacky/sticky as one would imagine--it's actually a bit more powdery if done properly--after a light spray, make sure to reinsert the stem & wind the days through a full cycle, or if you have the technical skill & don't mind the extra work/step, the dial can be removed for this. I will go back and add a note, just in case. Thanks. EDIT: It appears that I can't edit the tutorial since it's been moved, so hopefully it will still be helpful here.

For posterity's sake, here are a few bezel shots of the gen for shape & color comparison: And a few more in natural light. At first, I thought my HEV might have looked a little oddly shaped or set wrong, but it appears to be spot on with the gen.

I did sand out the underside of the insert on my SSD and it did the job nicely, with respect to the crystal height, but with this tutorial I was aiming to make it a bit less involved. Inserts for this piece are hard ot come by, so I didn't want to risk anyone damaging theirs by attempting to remove it. I have a new insert coming from one of the dealers in two weeks, so if I can manage to replicate the same with it that I did with my SSD insert, I'll post the tutorial for that as well.

From the gen I handled (and the gen pictured here) the markings were definitely flat white.

Thanks again. The Asian 21J should remove easier, as it's secured differently (see below). To my knowledge the only difference would be the crown-stem release; if memory serves, it has to be depressed upon both removal and insertion.

Thank you.

I recently acquired my first rep since November of '07; the 3rd version of Rolex's DeepSea SeaDweller. After a visit (or three) to Mayor's--my local AD--I decided to give the rep a try. I know due to a personally horrible 2008, it's been ages since I contributed anything worthwhile to the board, so hopefully this will make up for lost time. The V1 was a comedy skit, the V2 much improved but still too far behind the gen to even consider seriously, the V3 seemed pretty impressively close to the real thing, and other than the gloss dial and bezel issues, there seemed no reason not to take the V3 to it's logical, modified conclusion. And, after shelling out for the V3, waiting for the release of the V4 (or V4.1 ; whatever they're working on now...) doesn't seem like money or time well spent, in my opinion; judging by past experience with Chinese rep makers, they seem to take two steps forward, one step back, and then one step to the side. (while two issues might get addressed, a third is created in the process) So, based on some ideas bounced about on this, and other forums--including the other modding tutorials I've created in the past--I decided to take my V3 up a notch. Arguably "minor" details, of course, but even compounding minor details can make a world of difference to anything. To get started, here's what you'll need (besides the obvious DSSD V3): 1) A jewelers/watchmakers screwdriver kit: http://www.amazon.com/FULLER-135-0916-16-P...9527&sr=8-1 2) A caseback opener: http://www.amazon.com/Watch-Pavilion-Profe...9595&sr=8-1 3) Some 2-ply, waterproof marine epoxy 4) Flat black & flat white enamel modeling paint 5) A can of aerosol dust-remover 6) A can of spray Matte varnish 7) Silicon grease & a brush to apply it 8 ) Some toothpicks 9) A fine, short-haired brush (I used a 20/2) 10) An old cotton t-shirt 11) Nail polish remover & a hair-dryer First, let's start with the marine epoxy, since it's going to take longer to dry than the paint. The HEVs on reps are rarely functional and generally a perfect spot for leaks to destroy the movement, so this one we'll seal up right away. Here's a few macros of my HEV, from the inside (after the movement was out): Normal/resting position: When depressed: You can easily see what a liability this will be for the movement when submerged. Since we need to remove the movement in order to seal it, we can actually kill two birds with one stone and spray the dial matte while the epoxy sets up. Use your caseback opener to remove the ring: Then lift off the second caseback guard underneath: NOTE: This second piece that comprises the majority of the caseback is NOT titanium, but merely a piece of steel painted gray. Be careful not to scratch or get nail polish remover on this, as it will remove the paint. Once these are off, you're ready to remove the movement. First, pull out the crown to the time-set position. Then, use your 1.2MM screwdriver to slightly depress the release mechanism for the crown-stem. (I know the next two pics are of my SSD V2, not the DSSD, but you get the idea) Now gently remove the stem: Personally, I can't stand these ridiculous rotor overlay decals... ...as they tend to peel off a lot of the time when removing the rotor anyway, so I prefer to simply remove them. There's no way anyone with half a braincell is going to believe this is a gen movement once they've opened the back, so let's just trash the overlay. That looks better. Now simply use your screwdriver & remove the rotor: Once this is done, simply remove the screws holding the spacer-ring to the case and remove the spacer-ring & movement. Now you've got you're empty case: It's nice to see the manufactures/dealers kept their word by making this a true, triple-lock crown system, just like the gen: Now let's start to seal that HEV from the inside by mixing up a bit of equal portions of the marine epoxy: Use your toothpick to carefully apply it to the inside of the case, covering both the HEV's hole, and spreading it over a bit of the case to blend it: While that's set aside to let the epoxy start drying/curing (i.e. "setting up"), go ahead and remove the hands from your movement; feel free to leave the dial on. Once the hands are off, you can GENTLY spray the dial with the matte spray to reduce the gloss. Hold the can about 18 to 20 inches above the dial at an angle and using short, quick bursts to dust it, move the can back and forth while spaying, so that the falling matte particles are applied smoothly and evenly. I highly suggest practicing this on a sheet of colored poster-board or even an old dial, so you can get a proper feel for it. Please make sure to pay attention to rate and strength at which it's spraying--you don't want to coat the dial too thick, otherwise it'll wind up hiding the raised dial print and dulling the reflectivity on the silver edge of the hour-markers. Keep in mind if you do spray too thickly, don't try to remove the matte finish with nail polish remover, as you'll only take the dial paint off with it!! Allow this a good hour to dry before handling it to put the hands back on. Once this is done, you can see the glare & gloss have been eliminated (below) from the picture of the movement above: Now, let's turn our attention back to those slightly small and dull looking numbers on the bezel insert; the nice thing about making them brighter & whiter is that the optical illusion given off by the new color will make the numbers look slightly bigger and/or wider. The reason I chose to do it this way--instead of using a spray paint, was to not only save time by not having to mask off the rest of the watch, but too have better control and not worry about over-spray winding up between the insert & the bezel, or worse, between the crystal and the insert. This way, you're not really taking any chances and saving a redundant step. Start by using your fine, short-hair brush and apply a little of the flat, white model paint to the tip. Paint the engraved markings on the bezel: Make sure not to get too much on your brush--you only want to apply a thin layer, not glob it on--and be careful to not get any paint on the lip of the insert, whether it's the lip near the crystal or the bezel. Once this is done, you can hit it with a hair-dryer on warm/low for a minute or two to get the paint to dry: Now that the paint is dry, stretch a portion of a cotton t-shirt over your finger and apply a small amount of nail polish remover directly to the t-shirt: Make sure the shirt is only damp with the remover, not soaked, you don;t want to bleed all the paint out of the markings. Gently wipe the excess paint off the insert markings using straight--not circular--motions, moving from the inside of the insert to the outside: Make sure you gently & carefully clean around the pearl. You'll notice there is still a bit of film/residue on the insert & crystal; don't worry, it's normal: Dry it again with the hair-dryer for another minute or two. Since my SSD had a problem with losing the paint on the casebcack, I'm going to repeat the same process on the back, with the flat black enamel paint, as an assurance that it won't be chipping or fading any time soon: Before: After: Now grab your polishing cloth; NOT Cape Cod, or any other sort of treated cloth--make sure it's dry and not abrasive--I use a gen Rolex polishing cloth that came with the box set: Now firmly wipe off the excess, dried film from the bezel using a circular motion, as shown: Let's look at how much better the physical appearance is already between the before and after: Dull and thin: Now it looks wider and more brilliant: Much better! Now it's time to waterproof the gaskets, using the silicone grease and a small, flat brush: Apply a small amount of the silicone grease to the tip of your brush and apply an even coat to all rubber gaskets. The first is inside the crown: The second is on the outside of the crown-tube, and the third is on the inside of the tube: The fourth & last is the gasket that surrounds the 2nd caseback piece. If you can, peel it off gently--making sure not to damage or stretch it--and apply the silicon grease to both sides of the gasket, then reattach the gasket to the caseback: Once you've completed this, you can go ahead and place the movement and spacer-ring back inside the case, making sure to properly align the dial with the ring-lock and bezel on the front (by holding the movement steady while looking through the front crystal), before securely screwing them in. Make sure you blow the dust out of the case before reassembling it: NOTE: Getting these in & out of the case was a bit of a pain in the ass for me, not having any experience in disassembling a DSSD before. On mine, the screws had a beveled edge and the trick was--unlike other spacer rings (e.g. a 2836-2 Submariner)--you screwed them down firmly to the spacer ring BEFORE putting them back in the case. The beveled edges had to line up with the case, as if they overlapped, you couldn't get the spacer ring seated down far enough, properly. On my Submariner, for instance, you would seat the spacer-ring first, THEN screw them in tightly. On this model, you back the screws out a bit AFTER the spacer-ring is seated. Backing the screws out on this will actually fill in the space between the tops of the screws and the case, thus pushing the spacer-ring down against the movement and firmly securing it where it belongs. Once that's done, you simply push the crown-stem back into place and it should look just as it did before disassembly. Your piece should look much closer to the gen DSSD now. And you've spared yourself fretting over what mistakes need to be corrected on the next release of this model, not to mention saving your money. Here's the final product--compared with the bezel-insert marking on the gen: Rep: Gen: And one last shot, set aside to completely cure, inside and out, overnight: I hope this is of some help to you guys who were either worrying if they should do with their current model or wait for the next release. Feel free to post any comments or questions. Enjoy!

I'll remove the movement & test it for posterity. My SMP chrono did that & it still tested solid to 10 ATMs.

Is anyone else's HEV spring-loaded on this model? Mine will depress & release when pushed; anyone else try this or know if the gen does as well? (my rep SMP pro chrono had an HEV that did the same when the cap was removed...) I'd like to know if this appears to be the norm; not having to remove the movement would make it quicker/easier to waterproof test it in the ol' Bergeon.

Bracelets from the dealers usually go for about $70-80; $35-40 might be good. Of course, if I were the one you were selling it to, $5 is also fine...

I haven't received the watch as of yet. Just trying to prepare myself ahead of time. No need to remove the bezel; only the insert. If I do remove the insert, the pearl will absolutely come out.

Has anyone done the spray-paint bezel insert mod on the V3? And if so, does the pearl need to be removed first to avoid a sloppy job?

I was wondering if there was a noticeable visual difference between the ticking of the second hand on the 21J vs. the ETA/ETA clone?

Nice! You should include a shot with the lights on, to show off the workmanship.

I think it's the reverse of this. Buying & selling only amount to one thing: money. Since you're selling, common sense would dictate you're obviously looking to make a lot of money as opposed to a little. You'll get more for the Rolex, so sell it. If it's more of a matter of emotion rather than money, then keep the one you have the most feeling for.

Anyone know if any of the standard case-back openers fits this piece, or is it something bigger than a 29.5mm?