olga

Demon, getting back to your original question. Pugs comments would be an excellent place to start the research for yourself. As far as the pagan festivals are concerned, if you are interested in researching you might want to consider looking into one called Saturnalia and another Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (the birthday of the unconquered sun). While most possible reasons for dec 25 are debated by one group or another, I think you'll find the information interesting if nothing else. Best wishes in your search for information.

Well the 111 is not exactly what the other dealers are selling. First the crystal is glass not sapphire. Second, although it does have a swan neck regulator, it is not dagger shaped. Finally, Panerai is not engraved on the movement, it is printed.

Interesting note about the 111h I received. It doesn't have a recessed cannon pinion. I hadn't noticed at the time of the post, but the pinion is the correct height. Check it out on my picture in the post above.

Just guessing gio, E300 or 5D?

Armin, your friend knew nothing. If you had handed him a gen yachty, he would have said the same thing if you had acted the same way. The fact is most people think that rolex is the pinnacle of the watchmakers art and have never held a gen. The first time you hold a gen it is shocking just how cheap the oyster bracelet feels. The dollar figure he gave you is probably because he is aware of the prices on canal st. By the way, I know a pawn shop dealer that uses the bracelet to tell the difference between gen and rep. He is very good, but what he is looking for is sharp edges that don't exist on the gen. It is not the weight or feel, but even he can be fooled if the bracelet is worked enough. Enjoy your yachty and forget about this experience, but learn from it.

I have the same watch and shortened the bracelet. It was some time ago so I don't remember the exact sequence to shorten it, but I'll share what I remember. You are correct in that only the first link has a hole with a pin that you can remove. The pins for the remaining links are under the ceramics. After you remove the first link you will be able to remove the ceramic part of the next link (this is part I don't remember exactly how I performed). After the ceramic is off there is a pin that you can remove to remove the link and repeat the process with the next link.

Based on Assasi9's positive experience, I took a chance on the 111. Watch took about 10 days to arrive. Communications with ufanta are non existent. Anyway, here is what arrived. I'll let you guys make your own decisions about it and keep mine to myself.

I just ordered a new 111h, and since my old one needed a cleaning and lube I figured I'd take a chance and relume the dial and hands. I read a thread awhile ago here about Noctilume and decided to give it a try, so this relume was done with their powder. This was my first attempt at reluming and I'm not entirely displeased with the results. I did the hands as well, but I didn't take a picture of them. They turned out ok, but I scratched the minute hand when I was removing the old lume. The watch is now completely torn down and when I have a little time I'll run it through the ultrasonic before I re-assemble and lube. Unfortunately then I have to take it to a local watchmaker to set the beat and timing as I have yet to buy a watch timer, but I don't expect that to cost very much. Anyway onto the pic.

According to some of there advertising, the Breguet company is currently working on recreating this pocket watch from the original drawings and so forth. Having the original available for inspection should make their job alot easier.

Yes, it is a landeron. It is incomplete as there is a wheel (gear) missing. It is based on the Landeron 48, but I can't tell you which one as Landeron made alot of movements based on this series. Check out the 48, any of the 51 series and even the 151, visually they look very similar.

Try 42 below, very nice vodka. Can sometimes be hard to find, but worth the trouble. It comes from New Zealand 42 degrees below the equator.

Sorry lefty, not going to happen. It's one thing to make a replica watch that uses a commonly available movement, but another to have to make a movement that has use in only one not very well know watch. If the movements were that easy we'd have a very good daytona rep by now. It is a beautiful watch though. My bet is that a gen is the only way your going to see this watch

The naming conventions used in china don't mean anything here, and with the amount of traffic this thread and LWL thread received, everyone knows it. This ridiculous naming should end. Maybe when dealing with chinese customers and suppliers you need to use or understand these naming conventions, but when you post on your english language website that something is what it is not, you should be made aware of it. Because now you are even doing it when it doesn't mean a higher priced item. I give the following examples "New for March": http://watchwindersworld.com/omse10031-pla...0bp-p-2469.html And Trusty has it for the same price, but showed it openned, but only with the anti-magnetic cover in place, hiding the movement: http://www.ttwristwatch.com/index.php?main...roducts_id=1202 Now for a little analysis "Asia ETA 2824-2 28,800bp" Asia - Well this part is true. This movement is definately made in asia. ETA - A swiss company having nothing to do with this movement. Include design, build or even inspiration. 2824-2 - A specific movement model number made by the aforementioned swiss company 28,800bp - True again This movement is the DG 2813-2S. It's design is based on the 8215 movement manufactured by Miyota, but the beat has been increased to 28.8 and it is 22 jewels instead of 21. I'm not saying anything about the quality of the movement, but it has nothing to do with ETA whatsoever. When in it's earlier incarnation, you guys simple called it an asia 21j movement. You could even call it an asian 28.8 miyota copy. Clone has too much of a different meaning. BTW, isn't this the same movement from the B&R that was an asia 2892 clone?

This would fall under patent law and not copyrights. Only the ETA stamps would be copyrights. I did a quick check on Swiss patent law expiration and it appears to be the same as US, which is 20 years from the date of application. If your 1983 - 4 date is correct than the patent would have expired 3 to 4 years ago. Anyone would be free to reproduce this movement as long as they did not put any trademark or copyrights on the piece. Perhaps we have an attorney on the board that could shed some more light on this subject. Of course I am not an attorney and I could be totally wrong.

@alligoat, @phoband, The watch is in fact the one from River.

Thanks Pug, I went and had a look at Angus's superocean. The picture he took of the movement does in fact look like a clone of the eta2824. Actually it looks like the one sent to The Zigmeister to review. I have no problem at all calling that a clone from the looks of it. I hope Angus is right about it being a good copy. We should know soon enough. The one that I am refering to is the one on Joshes site that has this description "Asia Eta 2813 Automatic Movement 28800bph". Someone posted it in another thread on this site with a picture of the movement. I believe that is also the one alligoat is refering to, as it has that symbol stamped on it. I wish I had more information on the other factories Angus mentioned, but info on chinese movement makers is a little hard to come by. alligoat, If your interested PTS has a website. Not alot of information, and very sporadic availability. But you might want to check it out anyway. www.ptsresources.com

So far I have only seen one Seagull movement stamped, and that was a picture of a prototype that they had at basel. Check out cousins. Here is there link for chinese movements. http://www.cousinsuk.com/default.aspx?disp=news ST6DLM,ST6DM,CHST18M and CH1901M are all Seagull movements. Look at the pictures and you will see they are not stamped. Here are the DG series that are from PTS Resources. Notice they all have that symbol. Check out also, how similar all the designs are.

This movement is made by PTSresources it's number is dg2813 and it has nothing to do with any ETA. The ETA 2813 is a 13 ligne 36000 bph movement. This movement is 11 1/2 ligne 28800 bph. It seems to be an update in which they increased the beat from 21600 to 28800. The older version was a relatively reliable movement based some what on the miyota 8215, although the rotor seems to have been changed. Again this movement has nothing to do with ETA. It is not even an attempted copy of any eta movement. The only thing it seems to share with the eta 2813 is the number 2813. After all the recent traffic about these movement descriptions, it is quite distressing that ETA should appear anywhere in an advertisment with this movement.

@Rikske, To clear up the confusion regarding my post. The first picture is what I believe to be the movement you pictured in your original post. I do not believe it to be a clone of any eta design whatsoever. The second picture is of the movement that is currently on the way to The Zigmeister. It is an asian made movement that appears to be a copy of the eta 2836. We won't know how close it copies the eta design until The Zigmeister has the time to tear it apart and compare it to the ETA model.

Unfortunately, this is not the movement that The Zigmeister is getting. I thought I recognized this movement when I saw it, as I had one in a canal street rep from years ago. Here is a picture of your movement as well as the one The Zigmeister is receiving. The one The Zigmeister is getting looks like an ETA 2836. This is a little disturbing that they are starting to call movements clones when they are nothing like the movement that they claim they are cloneing.

True, those lawsuits were the remedy available to US consumers, just as this discussion is the remedy for this. Ultimately the discussion itself should be good for all. It doesn't have to be ugly, but rather a rational debate from many points of view.

An interesting point V, but you are forgetting one important point. While many may think that the bank that offers this type of loan may be deceptively advertising. There is one important difference. Though it may be small and tucked away somewhere out of the way in the ad, the terms are there for you to read if you wish to be careful. Automobile dealers in the US have used similar tactics for years, but have sometimes crossed the line and been called out and forced to honor deals which caused them to lose money. In your example, if this same bank failed to put that tiny type in their ads they would find themselves in the losing end of a court battle and suddenly have to supply 30 year loans at 2.1% for the full 30 years.

Maybe, but why? ETA has already done this for you. It is the ETA Valjoux 7753. If your looking to use the transfer plate for the Daytona layout, it's possible, but the resulting movement still doesn't have the power for the extra gears. In the end you'll end up with an unreliable swiss movement.

Ok, so far I haven't had a problem with "asian 2892". I don't particularly like "asian eta 2892", but I am willing to concede to the realities and accept it. I don't even have a problem with the B&R movement pictured as long as I can see a picture on the site that offers this movement. The problem I see is that without the picture I become very leary. If there are indeed six companies making movements they call asian 2892's then I want to know which one I'm getting. Though I am not personally interested in the B&R watch, if I were I wouldn't want it at +$200 with the earlier posted movement. I probably would accept it at the current price with the Seagull ST18 movement. We can't have different grades of movements all being called exactly the same thing.

I am a little confused by this post as the movement pictured is not a Seagull st18. I have no idea what movement is pictured. Anyone have any idea?