freddy333

Thanks, Avitt. Are these 2mm dia or did I bullocks up my case by drilling out the lug holes for the 2mm springbars?

It depends on the width of each lug. On some watches, the pins actually do reach the end and you can see them quite clearly. But on others, they stop just short of the end of the hole

Same springbars, different cases

After drilling out the lugs in my 6239 case to fit gen (or similar generic) 19mm springbars, I am not finding them anywhere. At least not at any of the usual parts houses.

Am I correct that the springbar diameter (2mm) and style (single-shoulder) on vintage Daytonas are the same as other vintage Rolex models? Do I have the size or style wrong or does anyone know of a source for these?

Nice work & a great pictorial.

Did you drill the lugs to fit the proper 2mm springbars? Hard to tell from the photo.

Avitt -- Loctite was my plan, but I would really like to figure out the 'proper' method as I am sure there is one.

As for the case shape, now I see what he was referring to. This item from the 6239 chapter of Rolex Daytona - A Legend is Born may be helpful

Here is the DW

I am not quite sure the factory had a clear plan when they 'cut' this case, but it is what it is.

As for the DW crystal, I was not planning to use it. I just wanted to get opinions on the shape since all of my generic crystals (from Helfands) were either flat or flat with a slight bevel. But I think you and Ubi already answered this question as, based on your collective recommendations, I am awaiting a NOS gen T21 from Astorlive.

6241 cases -- Yes, so he says, but I will know for certain in a few days when the next shipment arrives.

The 6239 case has all the proper markings between the lugs & inside the case back (though the lug markings look more like modern etchings than vintage engravings).

I do not know what you mean by 'heavy' countersink, but the holes for the pushers appear to have the correct (small) amount of countersinking

And note the shape & height of the crystal (the shipping plastic is still covering the top surface). As I mentioned earlier, it looks almost like a superdome.

As far as I know, all the vintage Daytonas (up to the 165xx model) used the same case. The 2 models you mentioned differ only in the components attached to and placed inside them.

Although I have only done a test fit of all the components, I saw no problems with the way anything (except for the crown tube, which has now been addressed by Avitt & Ubi) fits in the case. Though I have still not solved the question about how I am going to screw (tighten) the pushers down into the case. The DW's pushers, unlike those from Ofrei, do not have anything on the screw part of the assembly to grasp with a tool. So I am not sure how to tighten them down, at least without leaving plier marks or damaging something?

The non-screw pushers that came with the DW case fit fine. But I should mention that these pushers differ in construction from those I have used before from Ofrei

(This is a disassembled Ofrei pusher)

Note the splines around the bottom of the screw part in the photo, which can be used to grasp when screwing the part into the case. The DW pushers, which are constructed slightly differently (and are a minor pain to reassemble), lack these splines, so there is nothing to grasp with a tool.

In addition, the thread pitch in the case & on the DW pushers are a bit more coarse than the threading on the Ofrei parts or previous Daytona cases I have installed pushers into. So you have few options with the DW case other than to use the DW pushers. Except for the threading on the pushers (which is not very 'clean'), they seem to be of reasonable quality, similar to the Ofrei parts. But I disassembled and overhauled them anyway just to be safe (neither had any sealing grease on the internal rubber gaskets (they do now)).

Hello & welcome.

If you hear 'sand' inside your watch, it probably needs servicing. If you know how to overhaul an automatic watch movement, you can do it yourself. But if you have to ask a question like that, you probably don't. I would recommend checking with the seller or try some local watchmakers to see if they are willing to work on a replica watch. If you cannot find a local watchmaker, try ziggyinfo.com (in case you do not already know, Ziggy is THE MAN when it comes to watchmaking skills and making reps run right).

Avitt -- I think my T21's are from Helfands, but none of them look domed. At least not domed like the DW crystal, which looks almost like a superdome in comparison to the Helfand's T21's. But I find that there are often variations in crystals from the same seller.

Hmmmm... On mine, I had Ziggy tap my case while he was servicing my Valjoux 23. When I got the watch back, I simply threaded the tube in place- no countersinking.

I already tapped the case (it needed it). And if the tube worked without countersinking for you, then it should work for me. Thanks.

I have another question that probably does not have a 'right' or 'wrong' answer, but I would like to get an opinion.

My 6239 DW case came with a '300 UNITS' metal bezel and DW is sending an additional pair of '200 UNITS' bezels (a metal one & a black one) and a 6241 case. So I will have 2 cases (6239 & 6241) and 3 bezels (1 '300' metal, 1 '200' metal & 1 '200' black plastic).

As far as I know, the gen 6239 was made with a metal bezel, but they left the factory with either a '200' or '300' UNITS scale (The Daytona book shows both). The 6241 differed (cosmetically) from the 6239 in that it has a black plastic bezel with either '200' or '300' units. But most of the 6239's & 6241's that came with Newman dials have '200' units bezels.

Which bezel would you fit to which case for a Newman dial (my dial is black, but I could not find 2 similar 6239s with black dials)?

Definitely sounds like the chamfered f.l.a.n.g.e. on the gen tube won't work, and as others have already said, you'll need a gasket. You should be able to find some thin neoprene that you could cut to the right size to do the trick.

Edit: Admin, why is the word f.l.a.n.g.e. being censored?

I noticed that about 'f l a n g e' a couple of months ago.

For the gasket, I was thinking of just using the case gasket from a Triplock crown tube. Or are you talking about making the gasket out of harder material?

Thanks Ubi. The crystal that came with the case looks like a domed T21, which is why I was wondering if maybe DW had switched to an improved rep crystal recently. Anyway, I ordered a gen NOS T21 yesterday and I will compare it to the handful of aftermarket (flat and beveled) T21s I already have when it arrives.

Did you countersink the (gasketed) tube on your vintage Daytonas?

Thanks Avitt. That is what I was thinking.

That is an excellent point. I have noticed the "color" of the steel is different between different cases and bracelets. This will make a case look much darker and more aged.

Now who is going to tackle the problem of domed crystals not being "yellowed" as much as an authentic 30-year old piece?

I think either a sunlamp or soaking the lens in tea should work. I am sure there are other ways to do it, but these two are the first that come to mind.

But I have never really noticed enough of a difference to see any reason to try to match metals. It does not seem to be a big deal when RSC replaces similar parts with newer ones on gen watches. At least I have never seen any complaints about this on Timezone.

1. Did you use the crystal or replace it with a gen T21?

And if you used a gen, which did you use--flat-top or round-top T21?

2. How did you fit a gen Twinlock crown tube to the DW case?

My DW 6239 case came with an (incorrect) rep Triplock crown and tube, which I am going to replace with a gen Twinlock. However, the surface of the case around the tube hole is flat while the bottom of the gen case tube is convex, so the tube and case will not mate properly (at least, not completely). Ordinarily, I would just countersink the case hole. But the case was machined with a second, larger 'step' around the hole and, as it is, when I install the gen Twinlock tube into the case and then screw the Twinlock crown down, it just barely bottoms-out onto the end of the tube before it runs into the case. So if I countersink the hole, the case tube will then sit even lower down below the ridge of this outer 'step' and the crown will end up hitting the case before it bottoms-out or closes onto the case tube.

I do not have a good picture of the case, but you can see what I mean by comparing the mating flanges of both the DW Triplock case tube and the Twinlock gen

As you can see, the original DW tube is flat where it mates with the surface of the case (which is also flat). But the gen tube is convex shaped where it mates with the surface of the case. Since the crown already barely closes before it hits the case, I am not sure how to countersink the hole to properly fit the gen tube without placing the tube so low into the case that the crown will not be able to close all the way.

Nice work (as usual), Tribal.

Mine came off without any rubbing whatsoever in less than 20 minutes. I sprayed it with 2 coats of paint remover from a local auto parts store, let it sit & then rinsed off the chemicals (and paint) with water. Just to be sure the case was clean, I cleaned it with denatured alcohol (mineral spirits) and a paper towel.

How could I forget all those love letters...

That's what I'm saying.

TTK -- Understood, but please don't forget about me?

TTK, please check your gmail (Subject '333').

TTK - I am looking for a 5514 or 5513 MBW. Have you seen one?

Yes, I hear ya, Tribal.

But here is another issue to consider. The case the Fly arrived in looked newer than a watch of 40-50 years of age, so I asked the seller about it. As it turns out, the case is not original to the Fly's dial & movement. So that will make it a bit easier when I have to steal its movement to use in the Newman. But finding a replacement V23 will be a priority so I can get my new baby back into service as soon as possible.

How do you install (tighten) the non-screw DW pushers into the case?

After easily installing 3 pairs of Ofrei pushers in non-DW cases, I am perplexed by the DW pushers? Unlike Ofrei's, which has splines that run around the perimeter of the part of the pusher assembly that screws into the case (note the 'points' at the bottom)

(This is the Ofrei pusher assembly)

The same part on the DW non-screw pusher assembly is just a round, smooth cylinder with threads at one end where the part screws into the case (sorry, I did not take a photo of the DW part -- I just finished overhauling the pusher assemblies and they are a minor pain to reassemble, at least without bending or losing the circlips). So there is nothing for a tool to grip onto when screwing the part into the case. And because the pusher button needs to slide freely over this (inner) part, I do not want to risk scratching or gouging the smooth mating surfaces by trying to use a rat tail file or something similar.

I am sure there is a tool or procedure for doing this. Anyone have experience with these?

Nice work. The pearl really sets it off.

Now about that crown (you need a gen)..

Were it that simple. Yes, the watch was purchased as a donor. But, while awaiting the required parts for the Newman project (most of which arrived yesterday, but I need to make a couple of correctional changes), it became my favorite (wearable) watch and has been seeing nearly as much wrist time as my beater. So it will need to be put back into service as soon as I can afford to locate a V23 or other suitable movement.

Unfortunately, as many here are aware, a Newman is not the type of watch one can (realistically) wear often. So it is just a bit of a shame to cripple my favorite near-daily wearer in favor of a watch that will spend most of its time in a case. But the Newman is my grail watch, so it is a very difficult choice.

That makes the most sense. The search begins for a V23.