freddy333

I have been planning this project for years and it is to be my final, all-out assault on the Newman Daytona. So I want to get as close as I reasonably can to the gen (with a possible surprise or 2 along the way). The addition of the chrono bridge is just icing on the cake. Of course, no one will know it is there but you & me (and the few other RWG members who have been following the story). And, at this level, it is the details that make all the difference. But, like I said, I will only swap the bridge if & when I am sure it can be done safely.

There is also another new detail to add -- I recently tracked down a V23 (for my poor Flytimer), which has a set of gold colored gears (like those used on the Daytonas)

I have been considering whether it is worth the trouble of swapping those gears with the steel colored gears in the Newman's V72

Since the V23 is essentially the same movement as the V72 (minus the hour counter), it should be an even swap. The only problem is that it would require a complete tear-down of both movements, which is probably beyond my capability right now. Especially since I do not want to have both watches out of commission for an undetermined amount of time while I try my hand at chronograph overhaul. It sure would be nice to open the back of that case and see those gold gears and Rolex bridge, but we shall see.

Alligoat and All -- The 6239 Newman project is essentially completed. All that remains is to broach the hands and find a more secure method for stabilizing the movement in the case.

Hands -- Unfortunately, neither DW's nor Phong's (Jensen) hands fit the V72's pinions. All 12 of them (6 small chrono hands, 2 chrono second hands & 4 minute/hour hands) are too small.

I have a proper set of broaches, but the chrono & second hands are too small for my hand holder, so I have ordered another one which should be here within the next week. Hopefully, this one will fit the hands. But if you or anyone else has a better method for holding small hands while they are broached, I would love to hear it. So far, nothing I have tried worked.

(A side note regarding Phong's hands -- They are S-H-I-T-E, plain and simple. Not only do they not fit any better than DW's, but he charges more than twice what DW charges for them and the construction quality sucks. The small crimping that locks the wand part of the hand to its stem on both chrono second hands loosened, making it is impossible to use the hand because the wand just spins, freely, around the dial. Unfortunately, I do not have an extra set of DW's hands and I do not want to have to wait and deal with Western Union again. So I am going to epoxy 1 of Phong's defective hands and keep my fingers crossed. Bottom line for anyone else building a DW -- (except for the pushers, which you should get from ofrei.com) BUY ONLY FROM DW!)

Movement -- I spent a few hours cutting, shaping, filing & drilling the top of a soup tin in an attempt to fabricate 2 "Z" shaped straps to secure the V72 movement into the case. Although the straps turned out well & I got them to fit, the metal was too weak and they bent within minutes of my placing the watch on my wrist for the first time. So I ordered a collection of universal case straps from one of the parts houses & I think I will be able to find or fabricate something more stable from there.

Chrono Bridge -- I have not decided exactly what to do about fitting the 'ROLEX' chrono bridge yet.

It will be done at some point, but I am just not sure I want to take the chance of crippling the watch before I get the chance to wear it. After consulting with Ziggy, I decided that I did not have the right tool on hand (a jeweling press) to swap the jewels from the old bridge to the new one. So I found a good used press and ordered it. It should arrive any day. However, since I have never used the press before, I am not sure I want to experiment on this watch. Just this morning a friend suggested that I look into buying new jewels and just fitting these into the ROLEX bridge. That way, if I fail or damage something, I can continue to use the watch with its original bridge intact. And if I screw something up, I can just order more jewels and keep practicing until I get it right. Well, at least, that is the theory. I will see once the press arrives and I have a better idea how it works.

The good news is that the watch is otherwise complete and has been ticking away smoothly for more than a week now. Here is a teaser, but specifications are subject to change (I can say no more)

I need to broach this DW chrono hand to enlarge the hole to match the size of the hole in the Flytimer hand

I have a set of broaches, but I am having trouble finding a tool to hold the hand still while I broach it. Is there a special hand holder that fits these small hands or what do other people use to hold the hand still so you can run a broach through it?

Looks like it could be a classic. Hope we get some nice pics of the finished watch soon.

Outstanding work as usual.

Did you fit a gen movement or is it ETA?

Repaustria -- I think you are right. To accurately match a 40 year old tritium dial (which probably does not glow anymore), it is best to use a textured paint instead of lume. I bought some pumice gel paint for this purpose a couple of years ago, but never used it.

I think you just convinced me to wipe the cobwebs off the bottle and give it another try.

I used the insert on the left, but replaced the pearl (Illumines Dot) with one from ofrei ($10). It was a perfect snap-in fit for the MBW case

(The bending second hand is due to a slow exposure)

I agree. I do not understand why so many people go to great lengths to replicate minute details of a vintage watch and then spoil it all by repainting the dial with superluminova, which produces a much brighter glow than the original dial would have had even when it was new. And after 30 or 40 years, if the dial glows at all (none of mine do), the glow would be weak, at best.

A better solution is to use either Revell's Night Color paint (a luminous paint made for model airplane kits) or Bergeon Lume Paste, which I think produces the most accurate glow (weak), but it is difficult to apply (correctly) unless you have very steady hands and artistic abilities.

If you compare the distance between the crown and each pusher, you will see that the pushers on the gen watch are unevenly spaced (asymmetrical) and the pushers on the rep watch are evenly spaced (symmetrical).

Even though this difference exists, 99.8% of the public are not aware of this difference and probably could not tell the difference even if they were aware. In fact, many gen Daytona owners do not know the difference either.

The dia of the crown is correct, although the crown is a rep.

The dia of the gen case is 35mm tall, 37mm wide (41mm wide if you measure to the end of the crown) and 19mm lug width.

It is one of the nicer Daytona reps, but it does have some obvious problems. Some you can fix and some you cannot. As Alligoat said, the subdial at 6 on your watch is just an extra hour hand (it always points to the same place on the dial that the main hour hand points to). On the gen watch, this subdial (at 6) is the chronograph hour counter (it counts hours only when the chronograph is in operation, otherwise it should always point to 12). The subdial at 3 is the chronograph minute counter (it counts minutes only when the chronograph is in operation, otherwise it should always point to 12). And the subdial at 9 is the running seconds (it counts seconds and runs all the time).

The movement in your watch is actually a very good one, but it does not function the same as the movement in the gen Daytona. Search the archives for previous posts & tutorials about freezing the subdial on Venus or Lemania movements. This mod will permanently fix the hand in the lower subdial at the 12 position, which is the correct position for that hand when the chronograph is not in use. Basically, you will need to take the movement out of the case, remove the hands and dial from the movement, and then remove a gear and disable another.

Technically, yes. But the threads on some cases are not clean, so you may need to tap them anyway. I would have a tap on hand just to be safe. Ofrei, Cas-Ker, Cousins, etc., all sell taps for Rolex.

If it is any consolation, we have all been there.

The 'springbars' in the 5517 are solid & permanently welded between the lugs (they cannot be removed), so there is no way to fit the end pieces required to attach a bracelet to the case. Straps like the Nato are weaved in between the case and the bars, which is why they fit and why you never see these watches with a bracelet (unless someone drilled out the lugs, removed the bars and fit standard springbars in their place).

I agree with Alligoat completely.

If you want THE Rolex book, get a copy of Rolex: The Best of Time by Dowling & Hess.

Most booksellers have (or can get) it. There are other good books that specialize in specific models or types of Rolexes, but this is the bible for Rolex fans. James Dowling is one of the moderators of the Rolex forum on Timezone.

If you want a 100% accurate & reliable Daytona, buy a Rolex (many members own genuine Rolexes).

The next best alternative is to build a 'frankenwatch', which is constructed (by you) out of a combination of genuine and aftermarket parts that you buy from antique stores, flea markets, auction houses and anywhere you can find them. I do not know anyone who has constructed a 116509 Daytona (the gen version of the watch you posted), but Ubiquitous built some 16520s (the model that preceded the current stainless steel Daytona 116520) at a cost of, if I remember, about $4,000 (each). You should be able to SEARCH out his posts describing these beautiful works of art.

The most cost effective alternative is to select the model you want and then visit an Authorized Rolex Dealer (AD) to educate yourself about the look and feel (try them on) of the genuine watch. Then use the SEARCH feature (at the top of the page) to research the variations between the different reps of your model (hint - there is no such thing as a '1:1', 'perfect' or 'exact' replica watch, they all have one or more flaws). Every rep has a different flaw or set of flaws and you will need to decide for yourself which are the least objectionable to you.

ps When replying, try to include only a brief portion of the previous message if/when you need it to make your response make sense. It is not good etiquette to quote an entire message (including photos) and then just add a couple of lines to the end.

The Rolex 4130 (the movement in current Daytonas) is designed with the running seconds in the subdial at the 6 position. The 7750 movement (both Asian and Swiss) is designed with the running seconds in the subdial at the 9 position, which makes it inaccurate for current Daytona models like yours.

So, to get around this problem, someone figured out a way to relocate the 7750's running seconds from the 9 to 6 position by adding several extra gears to the movement. While this works in theory, in practice it causes alot of problems and turns an otherwise reliable movement (the stock 7750 is generally considered to be a good, reliable movement) into an unreliable one. The problem is the extra drag, weight and friction caused by the additional gearing, and it does not matter whether you add the extra gearing to the Asian or Swiss 7750, since both are functionally the same movement.

From what I have seen, about 3/4 of the seconds at 6 7750s fail within the first few months. In some cases, the watch can be repaired, but repairs can cost more than a replacement watch and it is likely that the movement will break down again since the movement is constantly under stress due to the additional gears.

I do not mean to be overly critical, but I think some of the collectors here have nicer (more accurate) Daytona reps than the one you purchased. Here is one of the few that has not experienced problems

The gen 6263 has small (smaller than the Sub) springbar holes & 19mm lugs.

Tribal -- Your CGs look excellent. In fact, I pay particular attention to NOT make them exactly the same.

About 1/3 of gen watches have uneven CGs and lugs (the lugs are often different widths, which is why some springbars stick out & some do not). Sometimes, they come this way from the factory, but, more often, especially in the case of vintage watches, it is due to successive polishings over the years.

Thanks Alligoat.

Does anyone know what a reasonable price would be for a stainless steel Datejust with quick set date in good condition or just a Datejust movement by itself?

Trib -- Looks like the beginning of another classic in the making.

You also have a PM.

Search Timezone.com. There is alot of info there on all Rolex watches, including the military models.

Thanks again, Ziggy.

I checked ebay before posting, but did not find anything. And new units are too expensive for my limited usage, so I will probably check with a local watchmaker/friend to see if he can tackle the job for me (he usually does things like this while I wait, otherwise, I would send it to you).

Thanks Zig.

Do you use the jeweling press to remove the jewels as well as install them? If needed, can I buy jewels from one of the parts suppliers or is there something unique about the jewels in these chrono movements? What info do I need to purchase the correct jewels?

And, finally, do you know where I can get a cheap jewel press? Someone told me I need one..

Thanks Ziggy. Can I ask a few related follow up questions?

Regarding 1. Any problem that you are aware of with my using the top of a soup can to cut clamps from? As it happens, an empty one just came my way (with some soup). But I know that some metals react when placed next to each other.

Regarding 2. I am still a little confused about whether the bridge swap requires an adjustment or not? Assuming the location pins and screw/jewel holes in both bridges have the same dimensions (the seller says they should), shouldn't the end play be the same with both bridges? That is my big question - whether swapping the bridges will require some type of adjustment or whether (assuming both bridges have the same dimensions) it is just part-for-part remove & install. You recommendation that I check the end play before and after is what I was worried about. If an adjustment is required/needed, what & how do I measure (and adjust, if needed) the end play?

Finally, I know a jewel press is the proper (and best) tool, but I do not have one. I do have an Inverto and I thought a staking bit can also used to remove/reinstall jewels? Are there any other standard tools that I might already have that I can use?