freddy333

Stilty -- My experience with self-stick labels is that they are hard to remove once applied, so they may damage the dial paint when removed. That is why I focused on painters tape, which is designed purposely to be used as masking on painted surfaces without removing the existing paint. My original idea was to scan and then print the dials out onto DVD labels. Then just lume the label. If the lume turned out well, you could apply the label over the dial (after removing the existing lume and paint) and you are done. If you have ever used one of those DVD labels, you know that once they go on they do not come off (even when you want them to). Unfortunately, that approach involves the issue of getting a printer that can create multiple layers to mimic the original dial's thickened paint, which opens another set of issues. And one of my main goals here is to keep the entire process simple with just a couple of steps.

I would suggest CQout also. For a watch like that (a low end design that has no relation to anything Rolex ever made), your best bet might be to search images.google.com for 'rolex' or 'fake rolex' and be prepared to do alot of searching and following false leads. Eventually, you will probably locate someone with that watch.

Pug -- I do not really know. The real issue there would be that you would either have to purchase the printing equipment (unless you already own it and I do not) or farm the work out to a third party. And I think the home brew procedure, at least if it works out as I envision it, should produce similar results in much less time (no waiting for a third party to fit your work into their other work) with fewer headaches (you control the quality) and at minimal cost. I think that creating the template, which must be pretty accurate, will be the only difficult part. I am not really happy with either of the two Rube Goldberg options I described above, but I think they would probably work.

Thanks Randy. And I know what you mean about the pain of slow set. I used to have a gen Datejust and it was the slow set date. A major headache if you do not wear the watch for a while and it runs down and the days go by.

Painters tape can be lightly applied to a Sub or SD dial without removing any of the existing paint. You may be thinking "So what?". But follow me here. Last night, I spent an hour applying and successfully removing painters tape from the dials of my WM DRSD and Comex non-date Sub. I did this several times on both dials without any visible change to the appearance of either dial. The DRSD is about 5 months old and the Comex Sub is about 5 years old (the dial has a bit of discoloration due to age). The tape has to be applied lightly, just enough pressure to get it to stick and not so firmly that it will remove the paint when the tape is removed. The point is that if a few more details can be worked out, this means that there may be a way to mask the non-lume parts of a dial to make reluming an easy procedure for modders. The next step is to figure out how to locate and cut out holes in the painters tape corresponding to the exact size, dimensions and locations of the index markers on a Sub or SD (or whatever) dial so as to create a template that could be placed over the dial to make reluming a simple process. I am just starting to play with ideas, but two options might be to use tracing paper to create a master and then transfer the coordinates for the indexes onto the painters tape. Or use a flatbed scanner to scan the dial image into a graphics program and print out a paper master. Cut out the holes and then trace them (the holes) onto the painters tape. I am sure there are other (better) methods, but that is where I am now. Once the template mask is placed onto the dial, one simply dabs the lume paste onto the index markers through the cutouts and then peels off the painters tape. The result should look like a standard silk screening. And the real beauty of this is that once you have a master template for a particular watch dial, the template can be mass produced, making the tedious and difficult job of reluming a rep dial a pretty quick & easy job that most modders should be able to on their own.

Alligoat -- I have a 5 year old Comex Sub that has one of these bezels. I have tried all the usual procedures for removal (which work on everything else), but it will not budge. In fact, I slightly cracked the original crystal in doing so. Tim -- Watchmaster and MBW are sort of interchangeable and semi-generic terms for a type of rep that is very popular among modders. Their main claim to fame is the fact that the cases are very close in size and dimension to the genuine models they copy. Because of this, you can often replace parts like bezels and crown tubes with genuine parts with little or no modification to the rep case. There was a group buy of MBWs through TTK recently, but I do not know if any of the watches have arrived yet or if there will be another group buy. TTK or one of the members of the buy might want to chime in here if there is more info. I have been thinking seriously about getting one of the bezel removers, but at something like $175, I want to be absolutely sure it will actually remove (safely) all of these problem bezels (as well as some of the vintage and current Daytona bezels) before spending that kind of money. I know a couple of members own them, so if they can offer any input on the subject I think alot of people here would appreciate it.

Thanks Randy, but this brings up 2 more questions. 1. Do you mean that the movement in the genuine DRSD that the WM DRSD is based on would have had one of these older 1570s that did not hack? So the non-hacking 2846 that I just installed in my WM DRSD is more accurate than the hacking 2846 I just removed? 2. I am confused about the quick set dates. Although neither hacks, both of the 2846s I got from Ofrei have quick set dates. Did any of your 2846s have quick set dates? The DRSD I received from Watchmaster came with an ETA 2846 that had both the hacking feature and quick set date. The 2 movements I received from Ofrei look exactly like the one I took out of Watchmaster's watch and they have the same quick set date but no hacking feature. So by my count, there are at least 3 different versions of the ETA 2846 movement -- 1 that has both the hacking and quick set date (like the one that came with the WM DRSD), 1 that has the quick set but not the hacking feature (like the movements I got from Ofrei), and 1 that does not have the quick set date or the hacking feature (like Ubi's).

Congrads. That is one of the most beautiful versions of one of the most beautiful watches in the world -- black dialed PN Daytona. Now if I could only find one of the non-Oyster (button pusher) DW Daytonas for myself. The stuff dreams are made of.

Thanks Stilty. Are you or anyone else familiar enough with WM's DRSD to know which gen movement would be correct -- hacking or non? While hacking this subject, I might as well kill two birds -- I also have a Comex no-date Sub (the one with narrow 3, 6 & 9 indexes that came with the 'Comex 729' on the back) that I was also going to use one of these 2846 movements in. Does anyone know if the movement in the gen Sub hacked?

Tim -- I know about those Accutrons. I have been on the lookout for a nice Spaceview 214 myself for several years. Almost bought a mint one about 5 years ago, but I thought the $300 price tag was outrageous and I am kicking myself now. Unless the core is damaged (it looks ok in your pics) or there is something special about the wire (which I doubt), I would think that most transformer manufacturers would be able to re-wind them or produce something similar (if they do not already have something similar on the shelf). If not, they should be able to point you in the direction of someone that could. You just need to match the wire type & gauge, winding layout and number of turns on the core. Coils are pretty basic components. I no longer have the tools required, but I used to wind coils that were only a little bit larger for electronic kits that consisted of wire that was a little bit thicker than human hair. I wonder if there is a problem with some of the other electronic components -- alot of older 1960s capacitors and ICs are no longer made and some can be very hard to source. After I posted this it occurred to me that you might even try phonograph cartridge makers like Audio Technica, Shure, Grado, etc., since most cartridges contain very small coils (smaller than the coils in a watch) and they often use all sorts of exotic wires and winding techniques. I am sure that one of these companies could assist you.

I have not tried it, but I bet a hair gun or heat gun will do the same thing without any damage or discoloration.

Good to know I am not alone in running non-hacking 2846s, but I would still love to know why some of them (like the one I just removed from my WM DRSD) hack? OR.............are the gen DRSDs supposed to hack?? Does anyone (Ziggy or Ubi) have the stats on which of these had hacking movements? It would still be nice if the movement hacked (much easier to set the time), but if the gens do not hack, then I might just live with it.

The jaggedness is only noticeable under 2x or higher magnification. Here is a 48-bit 1200 dpi scan The '11' on my 2nd DW looks better, so I think there may be some variability from DW to DW since the problem seems to be in the vinyl material and not the printing.

This is definitely one of the best movements available in any watch. As Ziggy said, it just runs and runs, and it is smooth as butter to wind. It is not as pretty as some of the more expensive brands of chronos, but I think the build quality is on par with them. I have two of these movements and one is 5 or 6 years old and I never had any problems at all with it. Search out the tutorial on freezing the hand in the lower subdial if you want the watch to look correct. This fix makes a very big difference in the appearance of the watch. The lower subdial on the gen version of these Daytonas is the hour chrono function and the 'Lemania' movement comes from the factory with the subdial functioning, instead, as a 2nd hour hand -- the hand keeps pace with the main hour hand, which screams 'fake' to anyone who knows anything about Daytonas. The fix involves removing the movement from the case, removing the hands and dial from the movement, and then removing one gear and permanently cementing another (the one that drives the subdial hand) in place. I do not remember the exact procedure, but that should give you the general idea. The fix will leave the hand in the lower subdial permanently pointing to the 12, which is the normal position for that hand on the gen Daytona when the chrono is not in use. One oddity with the 'Lemania' is that you turn the crown CW to move the hands forward and CCW to move them backwards. This is the opposite of the way most movements work. Not sure why it is geared like that, but every one I have seen, including both of mine, work that way.

I agree with Alligoat that the combo would be far greater than the sum of either set of parts. And if you decide to go with the Beginmariner and want to get laid with the money you save, you might appreciate this-- This guy wants to get laid, so he goes to a brothel and knocks on the door. A small window in the door slides open to reveal a very sexy pair of female eyes. "Can I help you?" the woman asks. "Yes", the guy says, "I want to get [censored]ed". "Slide $20 under the door" the woman says. His libido already shifting into high gear, the guy takes out a $20 bill and slides it under the door. Nothing happens. So he knocks again and the little window opens to reveal the same pair of eyes. "Yes?" the woman asks. "Hi. I slid the $20 under the door like you asked, but nothing happened. I want to get [censored]ed" he responds. "Slide $20 under the door" the woman tells him. He takes out another $20 bill and slides it under the door. Nothing happens. Now, he is getting worried, but he is convinced that a world of unearthly delights awaits him behind the door and that his patience will be more than rewarded. "The woman must be preparing one of the girls......", he thinks to himself. A few minutes go by and still nothing. By now, he is mad, thinking that the woman must have forgotten about him. So he knocks again and the little window slides open to reveal the same sexy female eyes as the last two times. "Yes?" the woman asks. "I slipped two $20 bills under the door just like you asked. NOW I WANT TO GET [censored]ED!" he says. "What, again?"

Are these movements supposed to hack or are there two versions -- one hacking and one not? I got two 2846s from Ofrei and neither appears to hack. One of these is to replace a dead one I just swapped out of a 5 month old WM DRSD. The 2846 I removed from the DRSD hacked and you can imagine my surprise after getting everything back together again only to find that the watch was not hacking anymore. Is hacking an option with this movement or did I get two defective movements from Ofrei? ps To save newbies some time, hacking is a feature in some movements that causes the movement (and second hand) to stop when the crown is pulled out to set the time. This makes it easier to set the time.

Yes, when I look at the gen SS and WG Daytonas side by side, the WG looks noticeably duller. Not really dull, exactly, just not as bright and shiny as the SS. And the difference is pretty clear once you know what to look for. There is also a slight color difference. Anyone who is familiar with Photoshop and color temperature knows the difference between a warm white and a cool white. When you look at the two gen Daytonas next to each other, the SS is ever so slightly blue white in comparison to the WG which has a slightly reddish tint in contrast to the SS. And now that I have seen the difference, it drives me crazy every time I look at my (a bit too) shiny (and blue) new Daytona rep 116509. The Caswell wand plating systems look like a great deal -- about $50 for the basic plating set (though there are a few extra parts required for plating SS) -- but I did not see anything for white gold. I will check out Artisan plating if the Caswell option does not work out. So thank you for that.

I think I see both sides of this. Since I followed the entire posted history of the production process, I knew that you were not using metal, but I can see how and why people might have expected the final DWs to be metal based on some of the discussion and descriptions of them being so accurate to the originals. I think someone (Ubi?) also posted a comment about his recommending that you not get one of the DWs if you do not know how to deal with datewheels, which could be complicated. That is probably not exactly what he wrote, but that was the impression I was left with and this may have led some people to believe they would be receiving a metal datewheel which needed to be fitted in place of the original metal datewheel. When viewed by eye or through a SD crystal, the printing on the 2 DWs I received looks great. But when I look at them through a 2x loupe, which should be similar to the 2.5x cyclops of a Sub crystal, I can see what Sherrington is talking about. Some of the 1's (depending on where they are on the wheel) look a little pixelated, sort of like they were printed with an old dot matrix printer. I know, technically, the print should be very clear since the resolution was so high, but some of the numbers do not appear like a 2800dpi print. For instance, on one of my datewheels, the 1 in 31 looks like a good vintage print, but the 1s in the 11 look pixelated, like wobbly lines. So I think the issue relates more to the grain in the vinyl (and where in the vinyl sheet a particular DW was cut) than the printing quality, per se.

Randy -- Your inbox is full, but I wanted to let you know that I just received two beautiful vintage DWs. Thank you and compliments to all involved. Well done.

Hi Randy. Yes, I thought of that too, and it may be another option. I do not really know enough about plating or precious metals in general to know what the difference is, if any, between the appearance of rhodium and white gold. I have read a few debates on watch forums about what Rolex uses for the white gold Daytona -- is it 'white gold' or 'rhodium' or some in-house mixture? But since Rolex refers to it as being 'white gold', I just thought it was safer to try to plate my rep with 'white gold'. As usual, when it comes to Rolex and reps, a seemingly simple question often becomes a complicated puzzle.

Many thanks for that (I (probably) would have figured that out eventually). Another dangerous site. I have a feeling I will be spending some of my rep money there.....

Yes, I have both the SS and white gold rep models, but when you see the gen watches side by side, the difference is pretty noticeable. At least to me and I have heard the same from others. I know it is a relatively minor detail compared to some other things, but alot of modders like me go to great lengths to try to replicate every last detail. And after spending alot of effort to change things like crowns and crown guards, which in my opinion are less obvious give aways than the difference between white gold and stainless steel, I just want to cover all the bases.

I have never heard of that? Do you have a url?

Has anyone ever had a stainless steel rep plated with white gold? If so, can you tell me how the finished work turned out, who did the plating, what the cost was and if the gold plating held up over time? Some of my recent reps (like the Daytona) are so accurate that the stainless steel material they are made from is their weakest link and the thing I worry about most when wearing these watches. And since many of us here routinely dismantle our watches for mods, it seems only logical to take the next step to have the cases plated while they are apart. And the beauty of white gold, unlike yellow or red, is that if the plating comes off, the metal below (stainless steel) looks so similar that no one would ever know and the watch will not have to become a door stop just because it got scratched a few times.

You can Search for the brief review I did last month of the 116509 from Joshua (I think it is in the Dealer Reviews section). The morning after the review was written, the watch died -- stopped running. Joshua had me send it to his watchmaker in China and it came back a short time later, packaged well and in perfect working order (so far). I have 2 other 116520s and 1 is 2 years old and, other than the 'twitchy' seconds hand (they all seem to have this), no problems at all. But I should also say that I do not wear these watches very often. They were purchased more as jewels to be looked at than to be worn. But I do wind and run them (including the chrono for 5-10 minutes) regularly, at least once every month.