freddy333

I agree with Ziggy about the TZ school (both levels) and the other poster that suggested Bob Tascione's course (which concentrates on pocket watches, but the fundamentals and basic procedures are the same for wrist watches). If you can afford to do both, I would recommend watching Tascione's basic course once (or twice) before doing the TZ course. The TZ course will be easier to follow after you see the actual procedures in action.

I think it is rare, in today's workplace, to have the luxury of being able to take the time to do a job well (as Ziggy does) as opposed to getting it done (as The Technician's shop does). I had a relative who was a 4th generation master watchmaker and he was a stickler about doing things right and always giving the customer more than they expected or paid for. It was just the way business was done in those days. For instance, he would routinely clean or fix things (without charge) unrelated to the work the customer had brought the watch or clock into his shop for. I remember hearing him complain about having to compete with other shops that charged less than he did and for a lower quality of service. He could never understand why people were willing to make 2, 3 or 4 trips back to another shop to have the same problem corrected over and over again when he would have done the job right the first time, albeit for a larger up-front fee or with a longer wait time. And I think his inability to lower his standards or take short-cuts (along with the onslaught of digital watches that hit the market in the mid-70's) had alot to do with his early retirement. I think, today, it is impossible to provide the level of service that Ziggy does in a full-time professional environment and remain competitive in the marketplace. My guess is that The Technician's procedure is probably typical of the type of work that is performed by many professional shops today. The cost to do everything the long way would be too high to be profitable in most cases. And it is the same for just about any other type of service-related business.

I can add a bit to Ubi's comments since I have 2 secs at 6 Daytonas. The only inherent problem I have had (and I think this afflicts all of the 7750 secs at 6 movements) is a 'twitchy' seconds hand. If you look closely at the movement of the hand in the lower (seconds) subdial, you will see that the hand stops, intermittently, as it goes around the dial. It does not effect the watch's time keeping, but it is noticeable if you look closely at the dial and watch the hand move for 30 seconds or so. My general benchmark for a good rep: keeps reliable time and looks like a gen when viewed from as close as the next table (in an intimate restaurant). These watches pass the test. My oldest, a 116520, which is almost 2.5 years old, looks to be the same version that Ubi's friend purchased. But mine was purchased from a dealer on a UK auction site. I have seen 3 or 4 different versions of this rep over the past 2 years and the two most accurate (in comparison to the gen) are this one and the one that Joshua sells (which has a more accurate 'DAYTONA' font, but badly shaped crown guards (too wide at the bottom)). There are only 2 really obvious visible flaws on this watch, but they would only be spotted by a knowledgeable Daytona fan and when viewed at close range (arm's length). The first, as Ubi indicated, is the thickness of the case. It is slightly taller than the gen 116520, but only slightly and I do not think it is noticeable on ones wrist unless you are very close and have a gen in close proximity for direct comparison. And, even then, I have a hard time seeing the difference even when I know what to look for. The other obvious visual mistake is the font used in 'DAYTONA' above the lower subdial. The 'A', which should have a flat top, is too pointed. But I have been told that because the gen dials come from different suppliers, some of the gen dials also have pointed 'A's. So this may not even be an issue (Ubi?). There may also be a very small issue with the location of the subdials at 3 & 9 being just slightly too high on the dial compared to the gen. If you look at the spacing between the top of these subdials and the bottom of the index markers at 2 & 10, the spacing is slightly narrower on the rep dials compared to the gens (EDIT: on second thought, all 3 of the subdials may also be a hair closer together, which may be due to their being slightly larger on the rep). But the difference is so minute that I have seen a number of these Daytona reps posted on gen websites and no one has ever spotted them, at least not publicly. So this is not something that should keep anyone from purchasing one of these Daytonas. The 7750 movement in this watch has been working flawlessly from the day I received it and keeps almost perfect time. My most recent secs at 6 Daytona is a silver dial 116509, which I received a few months ago from Joshua and posted a short review elsewhere in this forum. Gorgeous watch. VERY gorgeous watch. Unfortunately, one morning, 3 days after I received it (I had taken a few pics of the watch, but had not yet worn or removed the plastic wrapping), I found the watch dead on my desk. Stopped completely. The stem was very difficult to turn, which made me think there was a problem with the mainspring. Joshua had me return it to his watchmaker in China. When it returned 3 weeks later (well packaged and still gleaming like new (no damage during surgery)), it was working fine and has continued to run within +/-5 secs/day ever since. This watch is absolutely beautiful and feels quite substantial on the wrist (quite like a gold watch should feel) The only 2 obvious visual flaws (other than the watch being stainless steel instead of white gold) are the width of the subdial rings, which are just slightly too wide on the rep (beware -- some dealers have a different version of this watch, which has noticeably heavier gauge lines on and around the subdials -- makes the watch look very 'fake' to me), and the size & shape of the lume in the index markers at 3, 6 & 9, which is too large and square compared to the small 'slits' of lume on the gen markers. (Joshua used to sell an earlier version of the 116509 with unpainted (silver colored) index markers, which had correctly sized and shaped markers. So there is really no excuse for the factory marring such an otherwise accurate dial with these crummy markers. It is very 'odd' that the factories can get so many minute details right on a complex dial like this and then get something so obvious so obviously wrong. It almost seems like the rep factories purposely do one thing wrong on every watch as a favor to Rolex. Many years ago, someone told me that Rolex made a pact with some of the larger rep factories in China saying that they would not make a serious effort to stop them from producing reps as long as they never produced an exact replica. Sounds far fetched, but, sometimes, when I see things like this Daytona, it makes me wonder.) The case used for this version of the 116509 is narrower than the case used for the 116520 and it also has the same curves when viewed from the side as the gen case (the gen 116509 has a slightly different profile than the 116520). When I compared the size & shape of my case to a gen 116509 in an AD, it looked nearly exact to me. I have to say that I do not wear either of these watches daily (too beautiful to risk scratching, since they are definitely gleaming scratch-magnets), so my experience may not be a good gauge of longevity if you intend to use one of these secs at 6 Daytonas as a daily beater. I would also add that I have replaced the crowns and crown tubes in both watches with gen parts. I did this because the rep crowns look like rep crowns and the threads on the rep crown tubes are notorious for stripping after just a little use. Fitted with the gen parts, the watches look, feel and wind much nicer.

TTK -- I am not an LV fan, but I can appreciate a real beauty when I see one. By the way, did you get the email (and photo) I sent about a month ago regarding a non-date 5512/5513 Comex Sub MBW? Wondering if this is available?

More bad news, but it helps, thank you.

Not me, but those are the same dots (not the 2 this person is selling on ebay, but the same type) I purchased from Ofrei for $13 each last year. They are very good.

I was hoping for better news, especially since the case is an almost perfect for a PN. It would have been a nice way to tide myself over until I can locate a DW. For the record -- I think this case is the basis for many of the better Daytona frankenwatches. If you view the case from the side and then compare it to the side photos of a genuine PN Daytona, it looks like an exact match, even down to the narrow body and pointed tips of the lugs. If the holes for the pushers were just asymmetrical, this case would be perfect base for a V72-based franken. For those of us with access to a good drill press -- The same case (without the chrono holes) is also used on other vintage Rolex reps. So another option might be to drill your own pusher holes to fit a V72 or other movement. Of course, you would still need to source the correct bezel, etc. Oh well. Thank you Euno

Ubi -- Are you sourcing the genuine vintage Sub and Sea-Dweller bezel inserts on ebay? If not, can you provide some info on a source (you can PM me if you want). Ofrei used to sell very gen looking vintage style pearls for about $13. With a bit of aging, they could be made to look exactly like a 30-40 year old gen pearl would look. But I do not see them listed on their site today.

He recently posted that he has a large backlog of email and is responding to as much as he can.

Beautiful watch. I wish I could track down the non-Oyster version of one of these. Attention Modders -- I think the case on this watch is the same one that is used for some of the current Pre Daytona reps. See my post earlier today about swapping Daytona bezels. I included a link to another watch with the same case.

Two part question -- 1. a. Will the bezel FROM this Daytona 6263 rep (case is 40mm dia x 10mm height) fit ON this Pre Daytona (case is 37mm dia x 12.5 height)? If not, anyone know where I can source one that will? b. Will the manual wind Venus chrono in the 6263 (which is installed with a plastic retaining ring around it) fit into the smaller Pre Daytona case? 2. How do you remove the bezels on both of these watches? I am considering getting one of those $175 Rolex bezel removers, but it is a bit expensive and I do not want to purchase it if it does not remove these two bezels. Until I can source a good DW Paul Newman with non-screw pushers, I decided to put a bit more effort into correcting a few of the remaining issues on my existing Venus based Paul Newman Currently, this watch has one of the larger 6263 style of cases, which is incorrect for the PN. That is (excluding the case back and bezel), it is both wider and taller than the gen Paul Newman case. Viewed from the side, the lugs are much too tall and do not come to narrow points as on the gen PN. However, I found that the case (excluding the bezel and case back) used on these Pre Daytona reps is almost exactly the same dimensions as the gen PNs. If I can swap bezel and transplant my Venus movement into the case, it will be a nice improvement. So I was wondering if anyone has tried this before? And what tool is required to r&r both bezels?

I will add my congratulations as well. I am always in awe of people who can justify the effort and high cost to source and purchase the parts required to produce such a brilliant result. Like Ubi has said, these watches are even better than the gens because you have built them yourself instead of buying something off-the-shelf.

If you can remove the case back -- It is easy. Just get a can of paint remover from your local hardware or auto parts shop. Lay the case back on a flat, non-painted surface (I used my stainless steel kitchen sink) and spray a good coat of paint remover all over the case back. Let it sit for several minutes and repeat if necessary. Then just rinse the paint remover off (along with the paint on the case back) and you are done. Simple, quick, easy and works every time. And great work kingkitesurf. Ofrei.com sells good inserts for about $35.

I have never repaired or disassembled a jubilee bracelet, but I know that alot of watchmakers and jewelers will work on them. As for a replacement, I have purchased 4 or 5 of thewatchprince.com's Milano Italian Oyster bracelets and had no trouble fitting the rep clasp to the Milano bracelet. The Milanos are excellent quality. However, instead of separating the clasp from the last link, I left the last link on both ends of the rep clasp and just connected the links to the end of the Milano bracelet. Alot easier than removing the pins between the clasp and links and then trying to refit them. I do not know if you can separate the jubilee links quite as easily, so you may have to remove the pins and move the clasp to the Milano bracelet without the links.

It is too bad he is so unreliable (for purchasers in the US), because 2 or 3 of his $300 vintage Daytonas have what appear to be correctly spaced pushers (asymmetrical) and I have not seen these offered by anyone else for that price and in an off-the-shelf watch (so you do not have to scout around for a dial here and a hand there, etc.).

I agree with edge, repaustria and sherrington. Looks like a standard MBW (which is nothing to sneeze at), but it definitely needs a better bezel insert. I would also lose the polish (looks great, but the watch is too clean & shiny for a 30-40 year old watch) and add a bit of wear for starters.

If the stem fell out, the movement will probably need to be looked at. The last time I tried to return a defective watch back to China, the post office told me that US customs will no longer permit a 'watch' (or anything with the word 'watch' in it) to be exported to China. The person at the post office even showed me in the customs regulations book where it states that the export of 'watches' are prohibited. I then asked the person at the post office if I could declare the watch as 'cuckoo clock parts' and she looked at me funny (since we both knew it was a watch) and then sent the package without any complaint. But you should probably check with the seller first if possible.

Great read Pho. I never came across this during my early searches around the archives, so I am glad it was pinned.

Thanks again, Euno. I guess the search for a DW continues.

Thank you. The lizard strap is vintage (and correct for a late 60's or early 70's watch) with a Rolex buckle. I have seen these types of lizard straps used in old Rolex advertisements and it just looks right for this watch. I have been debating whether to replace the original rep Triplock crown on this watch with a gen Twinlock, but since it does not have the correct asymmetrical pusher layout and the dial is a bit off (the lower subdial is too low and bleeds into the outer surround of the dial), I was not sure it made sense to put too much more time and money into it since I am still looking for a DW non-Oyster Daytona.

Yes, I think that was it. I would love to know more details about the engraving bit and the tool you used to re-engrave the case back. Whatever you did, it was a work of art. I remember looking at it and comparing to gen DRSD case backs and it looked absolutely flawless.

Beautiful trio Euno. Here is my non-Oyster Daytona in all of its Oysterless glory

I have had dealers (including 1 that is a watchmaker himself) tell me the same thing about the Asian 7750s that Ziggy said. Unless you just want a Swiss movement in your watch, there is no reason to replace the Asian movement. After proper servicing, the Asian movement usually runs just like the Swiss movement.

TJ -- Did you remove the movement from the case at any point? If so, remove the movement again and see if it runs ok out of the case.

Well done Fred.