freddy333

In another post, Ubi posted a photo showing a gen Triplock crown next to a rep. The main problem, as and you can see from the comparison photos, is that the shaft that runs through the center of the rep crown (what the stem screws into) is narrower than the shaft in the gen crown. And the hole in the rep crown tube is made to fit the narrower shaft of the rep crown and the wider shaft in the gen will not go through the rep crown tube. So if you want to upgrade the crown to a gen, you will need to replace the crown tube also.

Ziggy's procedure is the most likely to work, but olivia's suggestion of trying to loosen it with penetrating oil is worth a try before you break out the drill. One other option, if there is enough of the head left you might try tapping on it from the side of the head with a small chisel. If you place the edge of the chisel at the right angle, it will bite into the edge of the screw head and you might be able to tap it in the direction to loosen and remove it.

I do not know what you mean by a jeweling tool, but you do not need a staking tool for basic repairs. Most watch parts supply houses (ofrei.com, julesborel.com) have watch repair kits. If you are going to take a watch repair class, the class can tell you what you need. If you plan to learn on your own, I cannot guide you there. You will have to buy what you need as you need it. All anyone here can tell you is to get quality tools and learn to use them correctly. Good luck and have fun.

The two thoughts that come to mind are carefully scraping print off with a pin (if you want to remove the print, but leave the background color) or just spray the entire dial face with paint remover (if you want to remove everything). If you plan to match the same colors, I would find the correct paint colors before you do anything.

I order pretty frequently from Ofrei and never had any real problems with Bob or anyone else in the company. But Bob Frei can be a bit unpredictable sometimes. I have had one very nice off-topic telephone conversation with Bob (he knew one of my relatives) and a couple of not so pleasant conversations (I do not think Bob is naturally a 'people person'). I have also received a couple of very strange emails from Bob where he ranted about his problems and things that had nothing to do with me. But as others have stated, as long as you know your part numbers and quantities and order by phone, you should be alright.

Exactly.

Avitt -- I will definitely keep you (and rwg) posted on my progress regarding the He valve. I have ordered some drill bits and will probably end up renting a drill press to get the rest of the work done. As repaustria already made clear with his version, it takes an already good rep up another notch. As far as the dials go, I had a feeling you would have the same issues I have regarding the narrow hour markers on the DRSD dial I have (and Polexpete posted a photo of). But I should say that, in person, the lume on that dial is quite well done. It is hard to see in the photo, but (on mine at least) it has just the right hint of original white color around each of the hour markers (the round ones too), which looks like alot of the vintage tritium you see on the gen watches. And I agree that there is probably a near-perfect replacement dial out there, but I also suspect that it will cost no more than the dials I have already found (under $400). There are so many variations of these DRSD rep/aftermarket/repainted dials (each gets one thing right and another wrong) that I think it is just a matter of finding the one with the least objectionable combination of sins. The search goes on.

Yes, that is the way the dial should look. I could be wrong, but one of the better Rolex books (I believe it was The Best of Time) said that some of the Comex Subs used the thicker Sea-Dweller cases in order to fit the He valve.

The photo I posted in the Stamping thread was to indicate the design and layout of a gen Comex non date Sub 551x caseback, not the dial. The issue I have with the width of markers relates only to the DRSD dial Polexpete posted (which I have as well). I have seen dozens of DRSDs (including those on doubleredseadweller) and none have such narrow coronets or index markers at the 6 & 9. Does that make more sense?

I am not sure what number I will use, but if it contains a 3 I want it to have a flat top since I have seen this font used on another gen Comex caseback. It is also the font on the datewheel and I think it looks cooler than the round 3.

Yes, it is engraved. A definite shortcoming and something that I will need to address. But after I have stamped the number, the plan is to either soften the sharp engraved corners with an engraving bit (I think it was KingKiteSurf who did that with great success (it fooled me) on his DRSD caseback) or to sand the entire face to remove the sharp engraved edges and then polish it. The second option will probably result in a more authentic looking vintage watch that could have seen daily duty with a Comex diver.

Here is the original caseback -- the infamous 'Comex 729', which is referenced in just about every tutorial on how to spot a fake Rolex Compared to that and the caseback that comes stock on most Comex reps, I think it is a great improvement and comes much closer to the version of the Comex gen in that Antiquorum sale. And after I add my own serial number, it will be unique and almost impossible for someone else to have the same one. But if you can direct me to a better caseback that is for sale (for a reasonable price), I would greatly appreciate it. And, like all of my modded watches, they can only be seen here (or on my wrist).

I want to stamp a number into this caseback So it looks like this caseback (from a Comex recently sold on Antiquorum (but with a different number)) So does anyone know where I can purchase a tool that will allow me to stamp (not engrave) Modern style numbers (with flat top 3s) that are 1/4" in height into the back of this case? For those who are not familiar with these tools, they are similar to the metal punch you use to set nails into wood, but they have a number carved into the tip instead of a flat point. You place the stamp against the object to be stamped and then hit it with a hammer to stamp the character into the object. Here is a sample of the font I need I have located a number of different metal stamping tools, but either they have the wrong font or they are not hard enough to stamp into stainless steel (the 'hammerless' stampers are too weak).

WightStuff -- Sorry, I meant to say the 5513 (dyslexia strikes again). The Comex rep I have is pretty accurate, with the exception of the current dial Although I am aware of the pluses and minuses of wearing a Rolex rep (I have been wearing both gen and reps for more than 20 years), your points are well taken.

Avitt -- Beautiful work and one of the best DRSDs I have seen. My WM DRSD is about where yours is and I think the original WM dial, although nice, is now one of the three remaining weak points (the other two being the case back's modern engraving instead of stamping and the He valve). If you have not yet read it, you might check out my post about sourcing Comex and DRSD dials. Polexpete was kind enough to post some photos of a nice DRSD repaint that I would like to get your opinion on. I already have one of these dials, but I am not sure if that one is better than the WM dial since both contain a different set of flaws. I am also working on an He valve mod for the WM/MBW watch cases, which is based on a previous mod I did for another Sub. I have taken apart one of my older Comex Sub reps, which has a clever and 'working' He valve. You could probably achieve something similar with a rivet or something like that, but since these cheap Subs come with all the parts you need, I decided to take the easier (albeit more expensive) route and just purchase another Sub for the He valve parts. Here is a photo of the parts (please excuse the poor lighting & color -- I forgot to set the white balance before I started) There is the 'valve' and a spring clip. There is an indentation around the lower end of the pin where it slides through the hole in the spring clip. Then you just slide the spring clip down to the other end until the pin is locked and held in place by the spring. There is even a small rubber gasket that fits below the head of the He valve to seal the case (I treat the gasket with silicone case seal). It is quite a clever little valve and I cannot understand why the WM/MBW cases do not include something similar in place of that silly He engraving they come with. Here is a photo of the He valve as it appears in the case What I am still working on is getting the hole drilled in the side of the WM case in place of the He engraving that is there now. Unfortunately, I do not have a drill press (that is the only way I can think of to get the hole drilled) or the proper sized cobalt drill bits (Update 5/15 -- drill bits ordered & should arrive in a few days). After the He valve is removed, the hole in the case of the cheap Sub looks like this As you can see, the hole is stepped. That is, there is a center (smaller) hole that runs all the way through the side of the case, which is approximately 1.10mm dia, and the outer (larger) hole (where the head of the He valve insets) is approximately 2.10mm dia. The diameter of the head of the He valve is 1.91mm. So once I can find the drill bits and a drill press to drill out the hole, all that remains is to chamfer a bit of the inside of the case to give the spring room to sit. That is where I am so far. Update 5/16 -- Received lots of drill bits & off to search for drill press options.

Pete -- Thank you for the information about the dial installation. But the 2846 does have a sweep second hand, so it should not look like a Timex (or quartz watch). Also, the 2846's slower beat is closer to the older Rolex movements than the faster 2836 is. The 2836 is a great movement, but I think the 2846 is more correct for a vintage Rolex. When I listen to the beat of a gen vintage Sub or Sea-Dweller and then listen to the beat of both ETAs, the 2846, although still slightly faster, is definitely closer. Once you hear the difference, and it is quite noticeable, it is hard to go back to the 2836.

I agree, and if I was able to source a gen 5514 Comex dial for $500, I would grab it. Trouble is, I have not seen any and I have a feeling if I found one it would cost alot more than $500. Still, I have to think that someone out there is making good rep or repainted Comex and DRSD dials. I mean if they can get a complicated dial like the modern Daytona right.......... Another alternative would be to buy a gen 5514 (non Comex) dial and find a way to place the Comex label on it myself. But I have not been able to figure out a way to do that (correctly). You are right about the <t25, but only a very few collectors would ever notice that and only at very close range. I am more concerned with having a watch that passes for gen in a restaurant or something like that. And since you can easily see the index markers from several feet away, I think it is more likely that someone will spot the narrow index markers before they notice the <t25.

Yes, that is the same dial I have. If only the coronet and index markers were the correct width, or at least a bit wider. It is those narrow index markers that have kept me from using the dial, because that is one of the first things you see when you look at the watch and I have never seen a Sea-Dweller dial with such narrow index markers. Just wondering, which movement do you have in your watch and did you have to remove the dial feet? My watch has a 2846 and I would need to remove the dial's feet to fit it. Not a big deal, but I was just wondering if that is what you did? I have been contemplating that Comex dial too, but, like the DRSD dial, it also has some odd fonts (the 'Comex' font should be more squarish), more odd text spacing, and the bottom of the 2 lines below 'Comex' should be shorter than the line above it. I will keep searching, but in the end I may have to bite the bullet and get one of these dials anyway because I have not seen many other Comex dials.............

Thank you for the great links. But unfortunately I already have one of those DRSD dials. They are very sweet, but contain two big flaws -- the coronet and 6 & 9 index markers are all too narrow, and some smaller ones -- the text is unevenly spaced and the dial is just slightly glossy instead of being a flat matte color. But the tritium-like lume work on these looks OEM and is about the best I have seen (similar to Ziggy's work). I have also checked the CWP site a few times, but have never seen either of these dials offered for sale. But I am sure that, like you said, they would be even more expensive if they had them. I will try again today. Any other suggestions?

I do not really have a price in mind. It all depends on how good the dial is. But I cannot afford a gen dial, if that is what you mean.

I would like to replace the dials in my WM/MBW DRSD and 5514 Comex no date Sub. I have checked out a number of sources, but every dial I have found contains one or more serious errors making them no better than the dials I already have. Can someone recommend a source?

I agree with Ziggy about the TZ school (both levels) and the other poster that suggested Bob Tascione's course (which concentrates on pocket watches, but the fundamentals and basic procedures are the same for wrist watches). If you can afford to do both, I would recommend watching Tascione's basic course once (or twice) before doing the TZ course. The TZ course will be easier to follow after you see the actual procedures in action.

I think it is rare, in today's workplace, to have the luxury of being able to take the time to do a job well (as Ziggy does) as opposed to getting it done (as The Technician's shop does). I had a relative who was a 4th generation master watchmaker and he was a stickler about doing things right and always giving the customer more than they expected or paid for. It was just the way business was done in those days. For instance, he would routinely clean or fix things (without charge) unrelated to the work the customer had brought the watch or clock into his shop for. I remember hearing him complain about having to compete with other shops that charged less than he did and for a lower quality of service. He could never understand why people were willing to make 2, 3 or 4 trips back to another shop to have the same problem corrected over and over again when he would have done the job right the first time, albeit for a larger up-front fee or with a longer wait time. And I think his inability to lower his standards or take short-cuts (along with the onslaught of digital watches that hit the market in the mid-70's) had alot to do with his early retirement. I think, today, it is impossible to provide the level of service that Ziggy does in a full-time professional environment and remain competitive in the marketplace. My guess is that The Technician's procedure is probably typical of the type of work that is performed by many professional shops today. The cost to do everything the long way would be too high to be profitable in most cases. And it is the same for just about any other type of service-related business.

I can add a bit to Ubi's comments since I have 2 secs at 6 Daytonas. The only inherent problem I have had (and I think this afflicts all of the 7750 secs at 6 movements) is a 'twitchy' seconds hand. If you look closely at the movement of the hand in the lower (seconds) subdial, you will see that the hand stops, intermittently, as it goes around the dial. It does not effect the watch's time keeping, but it is noticeable if you look closely at the dial and watch the hand move for 30 seconds or so. My general benchmark for a good rep: keeps reliable time and looks like a gen when viewed from as close as the next table (in an intimate restaurant). These watches pass the test. My oldest, a 116520, which is almost 2.5 years old, looks to be the same version that Ubi's friend purchased. But mine was purchased from a dealer on a UK auction site. I have seen 3 or 4 different versions of this rep over the past 2 years and the two most accurate (in comparison to the gen) are this one and the one that Joshua sells (which has a more accurate 'DAYTONA' font, but badly shaped crown guards (too wide at the bottom)). There are only 2 really obvious visible flaws on this watch, but they would only be spotted by a knowledgeable Daytona fan and when viewed at close range (arm's length). The first, as Ubi indicated, is the thickness of the case. It is slightly taller than the gen 116520, but only slightly and I do not think it is noticeable on ones wrist unless you are very close and have a gen in close proximity for direct comparison. And, even then, I have a hard time seeing the difference even when I know what to look for. The other obvious visual mistake is the font used in 'DAYTONA' above the lower subdial. The 'A', which should have a flat top, is too pointed. But I have been told that because the gen dials come from different suppliers, some of the gen dials also have pointed 'A's. So this may not even be an issue (Ubi?). There may also be a very small issue with the location of the subdials at 3 & 9 being just slightly too high on the dial compared to the gen. If you look at the spacing between the top of these subdials and the bottom of the index markers at 2 & 10, the spacing is slightly narrower on the rep dials compared to the gens (EDIT: on second thought, all 3 of the subdials may also be a hair closer together, which may be due to their being slightly larger on the rep). But the difference is so minute that I have seen a number of these Daytona reps posted on gen websites and no one has ever spotted them, at least not publicly. So this is not something that should keep anyone from purchasing one of these Daytonas. The 7750 movement in this watch has been working flawlessly from the day I received it and keeps almost perfect time. My most recent secs at 6 Daytona is a silver dial 116509, which I received a few months ago from Joshua and posted a short review elsewhere in this forum. Gorgeous watch. VERY gorgeous watch. Unfortunately, one morning, 3 days after I received it (I had taken a few pics of the watch, but had not yet worn or removed the plastic wrapping), I found the watch dead on my desk. Stopped completely. The stem was very difficult to turn, which made me think there was a problem with the mainspring. Joshua had me return it to his watchmaker in China. When it returned 3 weeks later (well packaged and still gleaming like new (no damage during surgery)), it was working fine and has continued to run within +/-5 secs/day ever since. This watch is absolutely beautiful and feels quite substantial on the wrist (quite like a gold watch should feel) The only 2 obvious visual flaws (other than the watch being stainless steel instead of white gold) are the width of the subdial rings, which are just slightly too wide on the rep (beware -- some dealers have a different version of this watch, which has noticeably heavier gauge lines on and around the subdials -- makes the watch look very 'fake' to me), and the size & shape of the lume in the index markers at 3, 6 & 9, which is too large and square compared to the small 'slits' of lume on the gen markers. (Joshua used to sell an earlier version of the 116509 with unpainted (silver colored) index markers, which had correctly sized and shaped markers. So there is really no excuse for the factory marring such an otherwise accurate dial with these crummy markers. It is very 'odd' that the factories can get so many minute details right on a complex dial like this and then get something so obvious so obviously wrong. It almost seems like the rep factories purposely do one thing wrong on every watch as a favor to Rolex. Many years ago, someone told me that Rolex made a pact with some of the larger rep factories in China saying that they would not make a serious effort to stop them from producing reps as long as they never produced an exact replica. Sounds far fetched, but, sometimes, when I see things like this Daytona, it makes me wonder.) The case used for this version of the 116509 is narrower than the case used for the 116520 and it also has the same curves when viewed from the side as the gen case (the gen 116509 has a slightly different profile than the 116520). When I compared the size & shape of my case to a gen 116509 in an AD, it looked nearly exact to me. I have to say that I do not wear either of these watches daily (too beautiful to risk scratching, since they are definitely gleaming scratch-magnets), so my experience may not be a good gauge of longevity if you intend to use one of these secs at 6 Daytonas as a daily beater. I would also add that I have replaced the crowns and crown tubes in both watches with gen parts. I did this because the rep crowns look like rep crowns and the threads on the rep crown tubes are notorious for stripping after just a little use. Fitted with the gen parts, the watches look, feel and wind much nicer.

TTK -- I am not an LV fan, but I can appreciate a real beauty when I see one. By the way, did you get the email (and photo) I sent about a month ago regarding a non-date 5512/5513 Comex Sub MBW? Wondering if this is available?